123 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 They most definitely did. Maybe they didn't listen to you or me. But they absolutely listened to their fans. No need to correct anybody, seeing as you're the one in the wrong.

It's somehow worse when they listen and say "No.  Frak you!" instead.

Modifié par iakus, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:38 .

[Br3admax]

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
They most definitely did. Maybe they didn't listen to you or me. But they absolutely listened to their fans. No need to correct anybody, seeing as you're the one in the wrong.

It's somehow worse when they listen and say "No.  Frak you!" instead.

It's not your story, and you have no right to tell the writers what they should or should not do just because you like something else more. Get over it. BioWare doesn't come to your house and tell you the way that you should complain about them on their network. Seriously, if you think that BioWare is constantly ignoring you, spitting in your face, and making you angry, why do you keep coming back here, a place exclusively for the game who's ending you so detest? Obviously no one is listening right; you're vision is being ignored by Big Bad BioWare, so you're just wasting your time. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:35 .

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...


It's not your story,

That's not how they marketed it.  They called players "architects" of the story.  That these were our Shepards.  

Get over it. BioWare doesn't come to your house and tell you the way that you should complain about them on their network. Seriously, if you think that BioWare is constantly ignoring you, spitting in your face, and making you angry, why do you keep coming back here, a place exclusively for the game who's ending you so detest? Obviously no one is listening right; you're vision is being ignored by Big Bad BioWare, so you're just wasting your time. 

"I'm happy so STFU"

Yeah, yeah.

Modifié par iakus, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:41 .

[Br3admax]

iakus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...


It's not your story,

That's not how they marketed it.  They called players "architects" of the story.  That these were our Shepards.  

There are exactly two different dialogues for mostly the same outcome. You knew this.

Get over it. BioWare doesn't come to your house and tell you the way that you should complain about them on their network. Seriously, if you think that BioWare is constantly ignoring you, spitting in your face, and making you angry, why do you keep coming back here, a place exclusively for the game who's ending you so detest? Obviously no one is listening right; you're vision is being ignored by Big Bad BioWare, so you're just wasting your time. 

"I'm happy so STFU"

Yeah, yeah.

You assuming that I say what's the point meanst that I'm happy. It doesn't. I'm simply questioning why you would even come here if the endings are an insult to you. I see them as no such thing, more that they are an insult to BioWare and and BioWare being incompetant. But go on, yell at the dead horse that you beat to microscopic fodder. I'm sure it'll spring back to life any time now and fulfill all of your wishes for the true ME experiednce that you so desire. 

[KaiserShep]

I can only guess that people who consider the extended cut to be some kind of insult after hearing fan responses had an insanely high expectation of the devs to just pull it all back and completely rewrite the entirety of the ending from the arrival to the Sol system onward.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 septembre 2013 - 01:52 .

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

I can only guess that people who consider the extended cut to be some kind of insult after hearing fan responses had an insanely high expectation of the devs to just pull it all back and completely rewrite the entirety of the ending from the arrival to the Sol system onward.

I don't consider adding outcomes involving Shepard's clear survival (more than a breathless torso, ideally a reunion scene) and easing up on the horrific, not to mention arbitrary, consequences of RGB to be "insanely high"

I would call simply stamping smiley faces all over the exact same endings to be an insanely low response.

[Bleachrude]

I still am surprised that anyone doubts that Shepard survived in the Destroy ending...what do you think the breath scene was for?

As for content itself, the base game for ME3 is already a 33.5 hr experience, comparable to Me2's 35 hours (Me1 is actually a short game...only 27 hours) so I'm not sure how much more content you can add.

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...
You assuming that I say what's the point meanst that I'm happy. It doesn't. I'm simply questioning why you would even come here if the endings are an insult to you. I see them as no such thing, more that they are an insult to BioWare and and BioWare being incompetant. But go on, yell at the dead horse that you beat to microscopic fodder. I'm sure it'll spring back to life any time now and fulfill all of your wishes for the true ME experiednce that you so desire. 

If my yelling leads to a ME experience I desire in whatever the next game ends up being, it will all be worth it.

But for now, Bioware needs to understand not all players have the short attention spans game developers seem to believe (and rely on)  I'm not going to just forget about this, think "Next time it will be different" and start shouting "Shut up and take my money!" when the first pre-alpha screenshots are released.

[Dieb]

iakus wrote...
If my yelling leads to a ME experience I desire in whatever the next game ends up being, it will all be worth it.

But for now, Bioware needs to understand not all players have the short attention spans game developers seem to believe (and rely on)  I'm not going to just forget about this, think "Next time it will be different" and start shouting "Shut up and take my money!" when the first pre-alpha screenshots are released.

Primarily it leads to ruining a lot of threads.

Your way of voicing your criticism is generally destructive, sometimes insulting, and hardly ever contributing to a discussion. Take a good hard look at any of your first posts in the Story Discussion board, and re-evaluate the likeliness of that kind of behaviour leading anyone do to anything for you. The fact that I as someone who's not really a "veteran" poster notices, kind of speaks for itself.

And speaking of insulting, with your last statement you're also insulting a good portion of people who still consider themselves fans and don't think it's a sign of incompetence or naivité to still be on good terms with BioWare.

edit: After re-reading the whole thing, please imagine this as a calm explanation and not a raised fist kind of rant.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 16 septembre 2013 - 02:45 .

[Iakus]

Baelrahn wrote...

Primarily it leads to ruining a lot of threads.

Your way of voicing your criticism is generally destructive, sometimes insulting, and hardly ever contributing to a discussion. Take a good hard look at any of your first posts in the Story Discussion board, and re-evaluate the likeliness of that kind of behaviour leading anyone do to anything for you. The fact that I as someone who's not really a "veteran" poster notices, kind of speaks for itself.

And speaking of insulting, with your last statement you're also insulting a good portion of people who still consider themselves fans and don't think it's a sign of incompetence or naivité to still be on good terms with BioWare.

edit: After re-reading the whole thing, please imagine this as a calm explanation and not a raised fist kind of rant.

I know I get carried away.  I try to curb it, but don't always succeed.  Actually, I succeed considerably less than I used to.

And mostly it's frustration.  I used to post long, detailed reasons why I find these endings so terrible.  I had long debates with people.  Some civil, others not so much.  And in the end, it amounted to absolutely nothing.  These reasons given not just by me, but by others who frankly were more eloquent than I could ever hope to be, were pretty much totally ignored.

Given that I am disgusted by these endings not just on an aesthetic level, but a visceral one, and learning the hard way that Bioware assuring us that "we are listening" to be distinctly different from "we care what you think" has built up a lot of rancor.  And later marginalizing of our positions hasn't helped either.

As to my last comment:  No it wasn't an insult aimed at fans.  It was aimed at what I perceive Bioware thinks of their fans:  That they'll forget.  That they don't care about the story or the endings, and will eagerly scoop up anything with a Bioware label on it.  If someone liked ME3, that's fine.  I can't understand why, but hey, variety is the spice of life.  But what I do not hold to is the idea that we're all just sheep waiting to be sheared.  That all that matters is the label.

[Ieldra]

@iakus
Why do you even want more Mass Effect? I find myself indifferent to the idea. I couldn't even be bothered to look up the comics. As I see it, the next ME game will have to win me over from a -50 approval rate, though it is for different reasons than yours (autodialogue and rampant mysticism are much higher-rated complaints than the endings in my mind). If it doesn't....*shrug* there are other universes.

As for not forgetting, I don't think anyone at Bioware will forget the ME3 ending disaster any time soon, but at the same time, those who would brush it all off as "fan dumb" are unlikely to change their minds after this time. Those inclined to seriously consider what went wrong will already be doing so, you can be sure of that, since nobody wants a repeat. That they don't come here and share their thoughts....can you really blame them?

Edit:
I think the message was already very clear in the big poll with 80000 participants right after ME3 came out, 97% of which hated the (original) endings. A 97% disapproval rate is something to behold, even if you take into account that those indifferent to the whole thing wouldn't participate..

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 septembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[Bizantura]

The ending is what it is. I bought other far more better "suggested" games because I was so disappointed with that ending.. That got me fast back on track with reality. There never will be a game that suets me 100% in every department but Bioware comes the nearest and I do enjoy myself playing their games. Good enough for me.

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@iakus
Why do you even want more Mass Effect? I find myself indifferent to the idea. I couldn't even be bothered to look up the comics. As I see it, the next ME game will have to win me over from a -50 approval rate, though it is for different reasons than yours (autodialogue and rampant mysticism are much higher-rated complaints than the endings in my mind). If it doesn't....*shrug* there are other universes.

That is a good question.  And I wish I had a good answer.  I guess it's because I see such great potential in the setting.  And in the past, Bioware has created great stories.  That they failed this hard and seem oblivious to why is distressing.  Not just for ME but for any future projects.

And believe me, I've seen bad endings before.  And I've moved past them.  But this hit me at a gut level.  And with the scope fo the ending, plus the possibility of future imports, that means there is a real possibility that this will be something that will latch onto future games.

As for not forgetting, I don't think anyone at Bioware will forget the ME3 ending disaster any time soon, but at the same time, those who would brush it all off as "fan dumb" are unlikely to change their minds after this time. Those inclined to seriously consider what went wrong will already be doing so, you can be sure of that, since nobody wants a repeat. That they don't come here and share their thoughts....can you really blame them?

It's not just that they don't share thier thoughts (though I suspect that could have relieved quite a bit of vitriol buildup, if we could at least have exchanged ideas.  You know, achieve "Synthesis")  It's that I honestly do not know that they understand what happened.  Sure no one wants a repeat.  But if they didn't learn from this incident, it's bound to happen again. 

[TheProtheans]

Mcfly616 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

They most definitely did. Maybe they didn't listen to you or me. But they absolutely listened to their fans. No need to correct anybody, seeing as you're the one in the wrong.

It's really just your opinion that they did and my opinion that they did not.
In the end it is clear they did and they did not, they created ending DLC but they did not do it the way fans wanted.
I guess you could say they listened to me by creating ending DLC but didn't take any real feedback into account.

And that's really the gist of it, the content of the ending DLC was not created with fan feedback.
And neither was the Citadel DLC or Omega, or anything really.
Did they listen to fans once during this journey of 3 games other than when people were disappointed by the mako and Harbinger.
Though they probably used that as an excuse to cut them.
It seems like Bioware doesn't actually listen to fans, they just try to get the job done to an acceptable level for a lot people.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 16 septembre 2013 - 04:30 .

[Br3admax]

It's time to move on, bro. We'll get them next time.

[YourFleshIsMine]

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

So basically you are saying you're only a fan if you don't like ME3....what a ridiculous post.

They may not have listened to some fans, but I wouldn't make such assumptions as you do thinking you represent this undefined  "the fans".

I heard a lot of bad things about the ME3 endings so I waited. Now that I've played it through I think it's great. So that's a bad opinion? lol, just lol.

[Mcfly616]

TheProtheans wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

They most definitely did. Maybe they didn't listen to you or me. But they absolutely listened to their fans. No need to correct anybody, seeing as you're the one in the wrong.

It's really just your opinion that they did and my opinion that they did not.
In the end it is clear they did and they did not, they created ending DLC but they did not do it the way fans wanted.
I guess you could say they listened to me by creating ending DLC but didn't take any real feedback into account.

And that's really the gist of it, the content of the ending DLC was not created with fan feedback.
And neither was the Citadel DLC or Omega, or anything really.

Extended Cut: showed where the hell our squadmates disappeared to on the Beam Run. Had the Catalyst actually explain itself. And it showed us the impact our final choice had on the galaxy.

Leviathan DLC: more lore about the Reapers. Squad banter.

Omega: return to Omega. Fight alongside Aria. Featuring a female Turian. New enemies.

Citadel DLC: more down-time with squadmates. More LI content.





People wanted these things. Maybe not you.....


It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Bioware implemented fan feedback in each of the DLC's.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...


It's not just that they don't share thier thoughts (though I suspect that could have relieved quite a bit of vitriol buildup, if we could at least have exchanged ideas.  You know, achieve "Synthesis")  It's that I honestly do not know that they understand what happened.  Sure no one wants a repeat.  But if they didn't learn from this incident, it's bound to happen again. 

What if they do understand what happened, but don't care about your problem? You're not opposed to the execution, you're opposed to the design intent.

[JamesFaith]

TheProtheans wrote...

In the end it is clear they did and they did not, they created ending DLC but they did not do it the way fans wanted.
I guess you could say they listened to me by creating ending DLC but didn't take any real feedback into account.

There was more then one demands on change and a lot of deamands for additions to old endings.

And minimally people demanding option refuse Catalyst even if it would mean losing war with Reapers, got what they asked.

But this is just old complainig BW didnť listen to me = BW didnť listen to anyone.

[N7 Shadow 90]

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

Why do you think that the Extended Cut and Citadel were made? They were absolutely full to the brim of fan requests. Also partly Leviathan.

[TheProtheans]

N7 Shadow 90 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

Why do you think that the Extended Cut and Citadel were made? They were absolutely full to the brim of fan requests. Also partly Leviathan.

That was in some way addressed in my last post, both were made by Bioware ignoring fan feedback and instead doing what they thought would save the franchise at minimal effort. 
I don't know anyone who asked for an out of place lol worthy DLC such as the Citadel DLC.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 16 septembre 2013 - 08:13 .

[TheProtheans]

JamesFaith wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

In the end it is clear they did and they did not, they created ending DLC but they did not do it the way fans wanted.
I guess you could say they listened to me by creating ending DLC but didn't take any real feedback into account.

There was more then one demands on change and a lot of deamands for additions to old endings.

And minimally people demanding option refuse Catalyst even if it would mean losing war with Reapers, got what they asked.

But this is just old complainig BW didnť listen to me = BW didnť listen to anyone.

I don't think that was quite what people were asking for.
It would be like me asking for cake and finding that I am being served sponge cake with turd topping. 

[TheProtheans]

YourFleshIsMine wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

1) Bioware did not listen to the fans.

You can keep your bad opinions, I just wanted to correct you on that point.

So basically you are saying you're only a fan if you don't like ME3....what a ridiculous post.

They may not have listened to some fans, but I wouldn't make such assumptions as you do thinking you represent this undefined  "the fans".

I heard a lot of bad things about the ME3 endings so I waited. Now that I've played it through I think it's great. So that's a bad opinion? lol, just lol.

Let's say for example you thought turd tasted good.
I would call that a bad opinion and you would not need to ask why.

[mupp3tz]

Too much poop in this thread.

[JamesFaith]

TheProtheans wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...
And minimally people demanding option refuse Catalyst even if it would mean losing war with Reapers, got what they asked.

I don't think that was quite what people were asking for.
It would be like me asking for cake and finding that I am being served sponge cake with turd topping. 

No, this was exactly what some fans demanded.

There were three different demands on Refuse, all with quite much supporting threads.

Refuse with succesful conventional victory - conventional happy end.
Refuse with conventional victory with great losses and damage to galaxy.
Refuse "I rather sacrifice galaxy then sacrifice my humanity, then listen to that liar and so on..."

And third group got what they wanted.