598 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ok, how about this. Bioware makes a RPG set in America in the 1930s.

Stop me if you see where I'm going with this.

They give you the option of playing as a man or a woman, and as white, black, asian, latino, and whatever else.

Being a Bioware game, they obviously include romance.

What is the better move here; to not include same sex or interracial relations because those things were not socially acceptable at the time, or to include them and deal with the consequences of it?

It's not as if these things didn't happen. They did. They happened a lot.

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

Self quoting because, aside from that wonderful Rock-Aplauding gif, I never did get a proper reply.

I suddenly want to play that game.

[Magdalena11]

It might be interesting if in order to proceed past a certain point in a relationship, the PC needed to pass something like a persuade check. In that case, certain races might have bonuses or penalties. A NPC might have a preference for dwarves or qunari, for instance, and other races might have to be more persuasive.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
It could have been worse, you know.  I think he isn't into Gnomes, so if you played a female gnome, you'd be Gnomeveralone!

...yeah, that was pretty bad.

Because it appears they're going with the bisexual option, you still have (probably) 3 choices.  And even in your scenario, you still have the option of not romancing anyone; no one is forcing your hand, certainly.

But yes, male characters totally get the group bisexual incest option in Jade Empire unavailable to female characters. 

The battle system was difficult to get into, but it isn't so bad once you get it down.  Just remember that if you aren't a caster, you aren't even a thing, son.  :happy:

Jaheira being a romance option was always really iffy with me, I feel ya.  She's like, your godmother!

*wrinkles nose* I refuse to play anything that's not human/elf/halfie  

It was.

Oh I know I always have the option not to romance anyone (and honestly even if all the BG2 LIs had been Bi I still wouldn't have wanted them.) but knowing one character I would like to romance is an LI and I can't romance them because I rolled the wrong race/gender makes me eeeeh and I don't get encouraged to do a replay with the different gender. I just roll the same gender and either use mods/ignore it.

Along with a extra female LI. Male got 3 options (4 if you count the threesome) and females got 2. But Sky was the only LI I tended to bother with so it didn't really bother me.

Pfft. Ctrl+Y screw your puny casting! I AM GOD! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And her mentioning her dead husband just made things awkward. It didn't help that BG2 ninjamancing were somehow worse than ME1. Had to be a dick to get them off my PC's well you know where I'm going with this

[cactusberry]

I strongly disagree. I place a lot of value into stories where such values are overcome for the true love of two people. If there are strict racial restrictions like that, I will be disappointed.

[Ryzaki]

Navasha wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The only reason that I keep arguing is because I feel that we basically agree, but I feel that you are misunderstading my argument. You agree that there shouldn't be a romance if you character disagrees on things, if your PCs worldviews misaligns with the character's worldviews. That's what I'm trying to get at. If a dwarf comes from a background that has a strict class system and he doesn't want to date a non dwarf because of that, then how is that any different than a person not wanting to date a PC because that PC holds different world views? Both of the conflicts come from that particular characters world views. And while that may limit a character, that brings the choices down from 4 to 3, just like being evil or good would be. 

In which case, why would the developers even bother to write a romance option for said character?   Varric wasn't romanceable because of a similar such worldview in DA2.    No one is saying that such individuals wouldn't exist in the world, but from a game development viewpoint, you also wouldn't make them one of the 4 options.  

You aren't going to write a very in-depth romance dialog for a character that can only be romanced by 2% of the consumers of your product. 

The individuals that will be picked to have romanceable dialog lines written for them will not have such a limited worldview.  

What would happen if the only romanceable character for human males was Sandal's twin sister?    Yet the other 3 characters were hot, slinky clad gorgeous character, but the writers decided that they just can't stand humans?

How well would that go over in the player community?

The bolded is exactly what I'm saying. The cost benefit ratio is just not there.

Unless of course said restrictions don't apply to humans. Then you get the "X gets 3 options Y gets 1" issue.

[Eveangaline]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...


Except no one here is asking for them to want to romance you no matter how deplorable they find you. No one here is asking for them to want to romance you if they disagree with you about everything. No one here is asking for every character to be romanceable.

They are asking for the four possible romance characters to not be restricted based on race. That is all. That's what this entire thread is about.  The problem you are railing against? The idea that companions will romance you no matter what you act like? Good news, you can stop arguing about it! Because no one here disagrees with you! They just want the companions to not write off the pc due to race.

The only reason that I keep arguing is because I feel that we basically agree, but I feel that you are misunderstading my argument. You agree that there shouldn't be a romance if you character disagrees on things, if your PCs worldviews misaligns with the character's worldviews. That's what I'm trying to get at. If a dwarf comes from a background that has a strict class system and he doesn't want to date a non dwarf because of that, then how is that any different than a person not wanting to date a PC because that PC holds different world views? Both of the conflicts come from that particular characters world views. And while that may limit a character, that brings the choices down from 4 to 3, just like being evil or good would be. 

Except that no one is saying there can't be dwarves who won't date non dwarves. They're saying don't make one of those the 4 people that the player can romance.

It's really not that hard to imagine that four people that join a group that doesn't discriminate by race might not put that much stock into race when deciding who to romance. Or if they cared enough about the inquisitor, wouldn't be able to overlook it.

I don't think we agree, because you have come to the odd conclusion that two entirely different things are the same, or that one thing (4 characters in a game with dozens not caring about the race of who they date) absolutely must lead to another completely unrelated thing (all characters are romanceable no matter what).

I really don't see the problem with people saying "sure there can be characters that won't date people due to race, but don't decide out of all the characters in the game it happens that the 4 you can romance are those characters", nor do I see it as sinisterly leading to characters being romanceable no matter how you act.

[Ryzaki]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
Varric wasn't a potential love interest because your only option was to play as a human. Do you have proof that only 2% of the Dragon Age community would play as a dwarf? And why did you completely change the situation I was describing? You went from one person to three people with the only character being ugly. That is quite the leap there.

I believe Gaider said a vast majority of people in origins played humans and a miniscule amount played Dwarves. So yeah the percentage might actually be that low.

Humans were played the most. Dwarves were played the least.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 septembre 2013 - 11:52 .

[Maria Caliban]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you have proof that only 2% of the Dragon Age community would play as a dwarf?

The evidence would be that only 5% of players picked a dwarf as PC in DA:O.

[Ryzaki]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you have proof that only 2% of the Dragon Age community would play as a dwarf?

The evidence would be that only 5% of players picked a dwarf as PC in DA:O.

Mind linking?  I recall Gaider saying something similar.

Edit: And yeah put in gender restrictions and the amount of people that would romance the dwarf LI and yeah that could end up being a romance written for 2% of players.

Didn't 1% of FemShep players do Jacob's romance? Least that'd explain why they did what they did in ME3.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 septembre 2013 - 11:56 .

[HiddenInWar]

Ser Bard wrote...

Let's not and you pretend that the restriction is there.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

*wrinkles nose* I refuse to play anything that's not human/elf/halfie  

It was.

Oh I know I always have the option not to romance anyone (and honestly even if all the BG2 LIs had been Bi I still wouldn't have wanted them.) but knowing one character I would like to romance is an LI and I can't romance them because I rolled the wrong race/gender makes me eeeeh and I don't get encouraged to do a replay with the different gender. I just roll the same gender and either use mods/ignore it.

Along with a extra female LI. Male got 3 options (4 if you count the threesome) and females got 2. But Sky was the only LI I tended to bother with so it didn't really bother me.

Pfft. Ctrl+Y screw your puny casting! I AM GOD! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And her mentioning her dead husband just made things awkward. It didn't help that BG2 ninjamancing were somehow worse than ME1. Had to be a dick to get them off my PC's well you know where I'm going with this

You so racist.
Gnomes are where its at, playah~!

Eh, I don't really have an issue with it.  It's akin to being upset that you're missing out on content due to your class or moral standing or background or the ingame options (and so on) you've taken.  You gotta play the cards you're dealt with.   Or just fold and go for a more favorable hand next time.

Mmmhmm, it makes me kinda "eh, whatev" and either grab it on the next playthrough or do nothing about it.  If Viconia doesn't like gnomes, that's her problem and she will know her place when the Tinker Gnome SpellJammers stand atop the heavens and strike Lilith down with the Metal.  Because not even Lilith can destroy the Metal - the Metal will live on.

CHARNAME is the Lord of Murder, after all.

I don't recall that at all. But what you should do is leave Therum for last for best dialog.

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...

Didn't 1% of FemShep players do Jacob's romance? Least that'd explain why they did what they did in ME3.

That still isn't a good excuse

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
You so racist.
Gnomes are where its at, playah~!

Eh, I don't really have an issue with it.  It's akin to being upset that you're missing out on content due to your class or moral standing or background or the ingame options (and so on) you've taken.  You gotta play the cards you're dealt with.   Or just fold and go for a more favorable hand next time.

Mmmhmm, it makes me kinda "eh, whatev" and either grab it on the next playthrough or do nothing about it.  If Viconia doesn't like gnomes, that's her problem and she will know her place when the Tinker Gnome SpellJammers stand atop the heavens and strike Lilith down with the Metal.  Because not even Lilith can destroy the Metal - the Metal will live on.

CHARNAME is the Lord of Murder, after all.

I don't recall that at all. But what you should do is leave Therum for last for best dialog.

But their gnomes.

Nah class content is replaced by something else. (other class content usually). That and I usually always replay as each of the classes available because yay gameplay. Same with background and moral standing. They have alternates. Meanwhile if I don't do a romance I usually miss out on comforting scenes (one thing DA2 did well. Aveline would comfort you if you weren't in a romance). I mean is it really that hard to give a friendship alternative to the "I'm here for you" romance scenes? (ME series was particularly bad with this).  I far prefer having a LI unintestered because my character is a psycho than him/her being the wrong species.

I wouldn't romance her if you paid me. XD

Mine is just a boring adventurer. You couldn't pay him to deal with gods for years on end either. NOPE. Not worth it. Not worth it at all. Even my evil ones are all "NOPE" BG gods are suckage. JE gods much better

Yes yes you should.

AresKeith wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Didn't 1% of FemShep players do Jacob's romance? Least that'd explain why they did what they did in ME3.

That still isn't a good excuse

Not an excuse but it explains it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2013 - 12:09 .

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Actually, totally okay with this idea as it follows precedent from Baldur's Gate.

And that's exactly why I despise this idea.

Screw Baldur's Gate and it's BS with male characters getting 3 different female LIs and females being stuck with Ameodouche.

I really regretted making my male a half elf midway through that game. The whining and clinging. I wish I had rolled a dwarf. I really really did.

And everytime Ameojerk opened his mouth I wanted to stab him with a rusty dagger.

I love BG2 plot wise but most of the companions I can't stand. Edit: before anyone even says it I liked Minsc. Imoen was okay.

If Mazzy was romanceable I'd totally play a shorty 

[LobselVith8]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ok, how about this. Bioware makes a RPG set in America in the 1930s.

Stop me if you see where I'm going with this.

They give you the option of playing as a man or a woman, and as white, black, asian, latino, and whatever else.

Being a Bioware game, they obviously include romance.

What is the better move here; to not include same sex or interracial relations because those things were not socially acceptable at the time, or to include them and deal with the consequences of it?

It's not as if these things didn't happen. They did. They happened a lot.

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

I wished that this was properly addressed when Hawke romanced Fenris or Merrill. There is racism in Thedas, and a human being romantically involved with an elf would be frowned upon; it's part of the reason why Alistair and Anora reject a pairing with a non-noble protagonist (since the Landsmeet won't accept it). My apostate Hawke romanced Merrill, but the only mention of the controversy it caused was in a codex entry, which I thought was greatly insufficient.

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Ok, how about this. Bioware makes a RPG set in America in the 1930s.

Stop me if you see where I'm going with this.

They give you the option of playing as a man or a woman, and as white, black, asian, latino, and whatever else.

Being a Bioware game, they obviously include romance.

What is the better move here; to not include same sex or interracial relations because those things were not socially acceptable at the time, or to include them and deal with the consequences of it?

It's not as if these things didn't happen. They did. They happened a lot.

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

I wished that this was properly addressed when Hawke romanced Fenris or Merrill. There is racism in Thedas, and a human being romantically involved with an elf would be frowned upon; it's part of the reason why Alistair and Anora reject a pairing with a non-noble protagonist (since the Landsmeet won't accept it). My apostate Hawke romanced Merrill, but the only mention of the controversy it caused was in a codex entry, which I thought was greatly insufficient.

By Act 3, everyone has more important things to be concerned with. No one's going to quibble with the Champion of Kirkwall's choice of romantic partner when the city's political structure is falling down around their ears.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I wished that this was properly addressed when Hawke romanced Fenris or Merrill. There is racism in Thedas, and a human being romantically involved with an elf would be frowned upon; it's part of the reason why Alistair and Anora reject a pairing with a non-noble protagonist (since the Landsmeet won't accept it). My apostate Hawke romanced Merrill, but the only mention of the controversy it caused was in a codex entry, which I thought was greatly insufficient.

Okay Hawke is someone who made his/her claim to fame by killing people.Alot of people. Hawke's also very rich. Other than a few snide remarks what exactly can anyone do about Hawke being with Merrill? (And Fenris himself is quite capable of bodily harm). I don't know about you but I don't go around insulting people quite capable of beating the crap out of me. Especially not if they can turn around and get away with it because yay money.

Most of the people you meet of a higher status than Hawke are those who probably don't give a damn about his/her preferences (Meredith, Vicount) cause they have far more important things on their minds.

Hawke already would've gotten used to letting insults and derision slide off his/her back from simply being a poor Fereldan in Kirkwall since act 1.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2013 - 12:21 .

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

However, if individual LIs had preference (like I would argue they should have preferences in other areas but that's another issue), it wouldn't necessarily be prejudice at all. Anymore than you can arbitrarily label a white person mating with a white person, or a black person mating with a black person, automatically prejudice.

No... but if they outright deny someone because they're white/black/whatever, it rather is.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

However, if individual LIs had preference (like I would argue they should have preferences in other areas but that's another issue), it wouldn't necessarily be prejudice at all. Anymore than you can arbitrarily label a white person mating with a white person, or a black person mating with a black person, automatically prejudice.

No... but if they outright deny someone because they're white/black/whatever, it rather is.

How? I actually agree with Plantiff when he said that this is as true as saying that him being homosexual is tdoes not mean that he is sexist. 

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote..

If Mazzy was romanceable I'd totally play a shorty 

I heard the Alistair kiss was adorable with dwarves.

I tried I tried to get past the origin to do it.

I couldn't.

I couldn't take my character being that short.

Everytime she looked up at someone my eye twitched.

I think I made it...6 hours before I went hell no and rolled a elf. That's short enough for me kthx.

[Nightdragon8]

so i guess a drawf warden should not have been able to romance Morgain or Lileana...

yes racism exsits, it exsists in the real world. and yet "racial" different people get married have kids and effectivly live happily ever after.

Also we know from DA2, that Elvan and Humans can have kids. No notice if Drawves and humans can. Maybe thats what Sandal in. Considering he does seem to have some access to the fade. Would also explain why he was found where he was.

Alot of cultures would stone or exile people who have multi racial babies. Maybe that was the case with Sandel.

[Ryzaki]

Dwarves and humans have to be able to have kids otherwise Morrigan would've told Dwarf male nobles to get Alistair. Since she didn't have to...

I do have to wonder if that child would be resist to magic though.