598 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I wished that this was properly addressed when Hawke romanced Fenris or Merrill. There is racism in Thedas, and a human being romantically involved with an elf would be frowned upon; it's part of the reason why Alistair and Anora reject a pairing with a non-noble protagonist (since the Landsmeet won't accept it). My apostate Hawke romanced Merrill, but the only mention of the controversy it caused was in a codex entry, which I thought was greatly insufficient.

By Act 3, everyone has more important things to be concerned with. No one's going to quibble with the Champion of Kirkwall's choice of romantic partner when the city's political structure is falling down around their ears. 

Except Hawke could romance Merrill in Act II, before the Qunari invade and before Meredith takes control of Kirkwall.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

By instituting racial restrictions on romance, Bioware would not be reminding us of the prejudices of Thedas. They would be imposing those prejudices upon our characters.

However, if individual LIs had preference (like I would argue they should have preferences in other areas but that's another issue), it wouldn't necessarily be prejudice at all. Anymore than you can arbitrarily label a white person mating with a white person, or a black person mating with a black person, automatically prejudice.

No... but if they outright deny someone because they're white/black/whatever, it rather is.

Not really

[devSin]

I don't think it brings anything substantive to the table, not really.

Due to a bug (never fixed by BioWare), Viconia would romance any male character in BG2, even an elf. And it didn't really matter, at all.

The gender check was unnecessary, and the race checks were clearly unnecessary. It was not a "romance simulation", nor did it attempt to be; it was simply an avenue for expanded characterization and a deeper relationship with the character, who was still just Viconia, regardless of the particular protagonist.

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...
Not really

Yeah I gotta agree with this no.

Preferences are preferences. You have every right to be selective (even if others feel it's shallow selection) with your partners.

That said this is a game and said characters personalities are crafted by the developers so thus why the whole "what if they prefer an elf" arguement is lost on me. They're creations. They don't have preferences on their own. Their preferences are created by the writers. So that's completely avoidable. Or you know they could prefer their own race...and not be an LI (or be a side LI that's not part of the main 4 Lis). While having the characters that don't have restrictions on race/gender for relationships be the LIs.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

I heard the Alistair kiss was adorable with dwarves.

I tried I tried to get past the origin to do it.

I couldn't.

I couldn't take my character being that short.

Everytime she looked up at someone my eye twitched.

I think I made it...6 hours before I went hell no and rolled a elf. That's short enough for me kthx.

I guess a "cinematic experience' doesn't improve everything 

[cactusberry]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No... but if they outright deny someone because they're white/black/whatever, it rather is.

No it isn't.

I don't find black females attractive. At all. That's not racism. I simply don't find them attractive.

A world where we're forced to want sex with someone of every shape and size because "denying" it is prejudice is a world I don't want to be a part of.

How are optional romances forcing you to do anything? 

[Br3admax]

TheDarkRats wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No... but if they outright deny someone because they're white/black/whatever, it rather is.

No it isn't.

I don't find black females attractive. At all. That's not racism. I simply don't find them attractive.

A world where we're forced to want sex with someone of every shape and size because "denying" it is prejudice is a world I don't want to be a part of.

How are optional romances forcing you to do anything? 

He's not talking about the game anymore. Also, I agree with the sentiment. 

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...
I guess a "cinematic experience' doesn't improve everything 

/dead

Now I'm thinking about it I might've successfully did that playthrough if it was in BG form. XD But as it was each cutscene was painful.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...
But their gnomes.

Nah class content is replaced by something else. (other class content usually). That and I usually always replay as each of the classes available because yay gameplay. Same with background and moral standing. They have alternates. Meanwhile if I don't do a romance I usually miss out on comforting scenes (one thing DA2 did well. Aveline would comfort you if you weren't in a romance). I mean is it really that hard to give a friendship alternative to the "I'm here for you" romance scenes? (ME series was particularly bad with this).  I far prefer having a LI unintestered because my character is a psycho than him/her being the wrong species.

I wouldn't romance her if you paid me. XD

Mine is just a boring adventurer. You couldn't pay him to deal with gods for years on end either. NOPE. Not worth it. Not worth it at all. Even my evil ones are all "NOPE" BG gods are suckage. JE gods much better

Yes yes you should.

Yes, gnomes are the superior race. What's the point?

So are restrictions.  On sex?  You have the entire other spectrum and usually a bi around.  Too evil to do something?  There are some good options, no problem. Oh, I agree with you, there should be an alternate "loveless" content where you can discuss what's about to go down out with a mandatory cast member (Alistar or Joker, for example).  DAO actually did this to an extent where your companions would offer you a salute as you went off to the Archdemon.  I thought Oggy's was most poignant of them.

Whaaaa?  She had a good story going on.

e_e.

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah I gotta agree with this no.

Preferences are preferences. You have every right to be selective (even if others feel it's shallow selection) with your partners.

That said this is a game and said characters personalities are crafted by the developers so thus why the whole "what if they prefer an elf" arguement is lost on me. They're creations. They don't have preferences on their own. Their preferences are created by the writers. So that's completely avoidable. Or you know they could prefer their own race...and not be an LI (or be a side LI that's not part of the main 4 Lis). While having the characters that don't have restrictions on race/gender for relationships be the LIs.

They are created to imitate real life. The writers--every writer--want a believable character. That means it imitates real life, and real life people.

There's not a soul in this world that doesn't have preferences. Saying that just because it's in a game, they can't have preferences...I don't understand that. The purpose is to emulate real life--within the boundaries of the world and the story.

Even in Fantasy settings the characters needs to be believable

[SirGladiator]

I think the main problem with the OP's idea is that it would take away other people's fun, and it wouldn't even really add to your own. If you want a given LI to not romance a paritcular gender or race, you can simply play the game that way, there's no need to impose restrictions on other people who would rather not have them. You can get all the benefits of whatever restrictions you want, simply by playing the game your own personal way and imposing those restrictions on yourself, just as the rest of us can get all the benefits of playing the game our own personal way without any restrictions. It's simple, and everybody wins.

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...
They are created to imitate real life. The writers--every writer--want a believable character. That means it imitates real life, and real life people.

There's not a soul in this world that doesn't have preferences. Saying that just because it's in a game, they can't have preferences...I don't understand that. The purpose is to emulate real life--within the boundaries of the world and the story.

And you're saying there's no people in real life that won't be bothered by a certain character (who can oddly enough always act the same despite differences in race, culture, and background) and despite this character being exactly the same them being a different race has to be the deal breaker for everyone? Really?

There's a difference in having a preference for a certain race and refusing to date another race. Do not confuse the two.

I prefer guys with long hair. That does not mean I won't date a guy with short hair.

Zevran had a preference for women. He was still bisexual.

[Angrywolves]

How about a famous one? A famous one.
Poor Beyonce keeps getting either spanked on her behind or pulled off stage by some overheated fan.
I think Alicia Keyes is very beautiful .
I think there are attractive women in all races, but I'm a progressive aka liberal.
But we don't want to spend too much time on this or Schumacher will lock the thread.
Who someone is attracted to is a matter of personal preference.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Yes, gnomes are the superior race. What's the point?

So are restrictions.  On sex?  You have the entire other spectrum and usually a bi around.  Too evil to do something?  There are some good options, no problem. Oh, I agree with you, there should be an alternate "loveless" content where you can discuss what's about to go down out with a mandatory cast member (Alistar or Joker, for example).  DAO actually did this to an extent where your companions would offer you a salute as you went off to the Archdemon.  I thought Oggy's was most poignant of them.

Whaaaa?  She had a good story going on.

e_e.

No they aren't. Not even remotely.

Nah I'm only fond of restrictions when there's equal content on both sides. When it comes to romance that simply doesn't tend to happen because of majority and resources. If there were four bi LIs and each one of them didn't like one of the PC races which one do you think will get the least content? I'm willing to bet it'd be the one who doesn't prefer the race that the vast majority of players play.

I loved the goodbyes :3

*snort*

EntropicAngel wrote...

You're right--I'm trying to stay away from the word "restrictions" because the OP is using it to make arbitrary race restrictions, when I would prefer character restrictions. I avoided the word to keep from being placed in the same category as that--that the game should have arbitrary rules that a dwarf isn't allowed to have sex with a human. I would say it depends on the character--that a character can (and indeed should) have restrictions.

And I'd vastly prefer those restrictions to be based off what my character does than his/her gender or race. Alistair romancing a bloodmage who sided with the werewolves and killed people for the lulz of it is far more insulting to his character to me than Fenris romancing both gendered Hawkes. I mean at least when it comes to the LIs. Side LIs? Fine restrict away I really don't care at that point. But main companion LIs who often get the meat of content and character development? Yeah I don't feel they should be restricted by anything other than moral and idea clashings. But of course everyone doesn't agree these are simply my preferences.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2013 - 12:50 .

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I wished that this was properly addressed when Hawke romanced Fenris or Merrill. There is racism in Thedas, and a human being romantically involved with an elf would be frowned upon; it's part of the reason why Alistair and Anora reject a pairing with a non-noble protagonist (since the Landsmeet won't accept it). My apostate Hawke romanced Merrill, but the only mention of the controversy it caused was in a codex entry, which I thought was greatly insufficient.

Okay Hawke is someone who made his/her claim to fame by killing people.[/i]Alot of people. Hawke's also very rich. Other than a few snide remarks what exactly can anyone do about Hawke being with Merrill? (And Fenris himself is quite capable of bodily harm). I don't know about you but I don't go around insulting people quite capable of beating the crap out of me. Especially not if they can turn around and get away with it because yay money.

So the complete absense of bigotry and discrimination to their relationship is due to Hawke being a proficient fighter? That doesn't even stop people from trying to kill Hawke.

Ryzaki wrote...

Most of the people you meet of a higher status than Hawke are those who probably don't give a damn about his/her preferences (Meredith, Vicount) cause they have far more important things on their minds. 

You might think it didn't warrant coverage, but I disagree.

Ryzaki wrote...

Hawke already would've gotten used to letting insults and derision slide off his/her back from simply being a poor Fereldan in Kirkwall since act 1.

A human noble being romantically involved with an elf isn't the same thing as being a refugee from Ferelden.

[Boiny Bunny]

I wouldn't mind seeing some light romance restrictions/barriers around gender/race/alignment, if it fits with the characters. I just didn't buy into DA2's 'every character is bisexual' (or 'every character has the sexual alignment that conveniently suits Hawke', depending on how you look at it) - mainly because there was very little difference between romancing one of the options as a male or female PC, which just stinks of lazy writing or lack of time.

If you have (for example) an Elf companion who will only romance other Elves, I'm ok with it - if the reason is character/plot driven (perhaps the character thinks that Elves are the superior race, or just hates humans for some reason, etc.) - not as an arbitrary boundary with no real explanation. Likewise, happy to see characters which are definitively straight/gay/bisexual/etc. - as long as it fits into their character. Isabella was the only character in DA2 that I could genuinely believe would happily romance a male or female Hawke without batting an eyelid, or treating them that much differently.

[Xilizhra]

Except Hawke could romance Merrill in Act II, before the Qunari invade and before Meredith takes control of Kirkwall.

Merrill hasn't officially moved in at that point. And what exactly would happen? Just some unpleasant person saying something bigoted and then being unable to back it up with anything?

No it isn't.

I don't find black females attractive. At all. That's not racism. I simply don't find them attractive.

A world where we're forced to want sex with someone of every shape and size because "denying" it is prejudice is a world I don't want to be a part of.

All right. So presumably if you fix your physical appearance to be hideous, or just unappealing, to the romance option in question, they'll turn you down there too?

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

So the complete absense of bigotry and discrimination to their relationship is due to Hawke being a proficient fighter? That doesn't even stop people from trying to kill Hawke.

That doesn't stop stupid people from trying to kill Hawke. And they usually are trying to kill him because they're insane blood mages, stupid thieves, Qunari or you know angry templars.

They're not random nobles who probably can't fight that well to begin with.

You might think it didn't warrant coverage, but I disagree.

And exactly who would care and why? When there's so many far more interesting things to gossip about.

A human noble being romantically involved with an elf isn't the same thing as being a refugee from Ferelden.

What you actually think someone would be more insulting and derisive to a noble than a refugee really?

Also other than gossiping why would they care? It's frowned upon yeah but they can't do about it. So no I don't see the necessity of making it a big deal "OMG Hawke has a elven wench" *Hawke looks in said direction, speaker hastily hides or glares and Hawke shrugs and goes about his her day* I mean really what would that achieve?

[Bionuts]

I'm all for believability, but there comes a point where I give leniency for the sake of fun.

[Heimdall]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Except Hawke could romance Merrill in Act II, before the Qunari invade and before Meredith takes control of Kirkwall.

As has been noted, she wasn't living with Hawke.  And frankly, I doubt it was terribly unusual for a noble to have an illicit mistress of any shape and size, which they probably would assume Merrill to be at that time.  It would be juicy gossip, but little more.  When Merrill moves in, that might be a cause for bigoted concern, but as mentioned she has the respect of being Champion to balance it.