575 réponses à ce sujet

[afgrdnq1]

... I would appreciate her appearing in the game.

[DKJaigen]

Ryzaki wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
I watched the entire thread but i find this point of view a bit shortsighted. your dealing with a race that has the potential to wipe out all of humanity without humans able to do a damn thing about it. if they offer peace you better take it and more importantly learn what the darkspawn are. that black city is still their and could easily give birth to another new group of darkspawn.

Yeah that's exactly the problem. Without the Architect their brainless roving bands of idiots and can be defeated by intelligence. (And have been. Constantly). The Archedemon is one of the ways they get organized and we see the devastation those cause.

With intelligence...they're far more of a problem if they decide to be hostile.

I mean really.

As for the black city...that could still happen even with intelligent darkspawn.

You assume that the darkspawn can be defeated by intelligence . but not even the dwarven empire or the tevinter imperium  could do so and who says that the spawn will be content to sit in the deeps roads when the last archdemon dies? If you wish to fight an opponent you must first understand him.  ultimilty  you accomplished nothing the architect may not be an unique darkspawn and their are still disciples around

Intelligence makes them  more dangerous? but they can be reasoned with. The black city can happen again. But  if you understand what it is you can take steps to prevent it.

You also destroyed that mirror merril was building without knowing what it does. benefecial or not. what if the mirror provided lasting benefits for society?

[Shadow Fox]

Knight of Dane wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

"It could have gone wrong!" 

She got lucky very lucky.

[DRTJR]

I want Merill back she was cute and adorable and everything.

[Ryzaki]

DKJaigen wrote...

You assume that the darkspawn can be defeated by intelligence . but not even the dwarven empire or the tevinter imperium  could do so and who says that the spawn will be content to sit in the deeps roads when the last archdemon dies? If you wish to fight an opponent you must first understand him.  ultimilty  you accomplished nothing the architect may not be an unique darkspawn and their are still disciples around

Intelligence makes them  more dangerous? but they can be reasoned with. The black city can happen again. But  if you understand what it is you can take steps to prevent it.

You also destroyed that mirror merril was building without knowing what it does. benefecial or not. what if the mirror provided lasting benefits for society?

The darkspawn have been driven back into the deep roads several times. They haven't been completely defeated sure because no one really wants to bother (or has the resouces) to go all the way into the deep roads. They're a "dwarven" problem until they hit the surface. Not to mention it's costly to make Wardens since their success rate for the Joining isn't all that great and the joining is the only way to safely explore the deep roads and attack the darkspawn without risking the taint (other than golems).

The main threat of the darkspawn on the surface ae when archdemons rally the darkspawn and attack.

You think intelligent darkspawn are going to help with this issue? You really think the rest of the living beings are gonna accept them? When their very presence makes them ill? Sickens their land and farm animals? These intelligent darkspawn are somehow going to be far more forgiving and understanding than any other living species? I highly doubt it. Especially seeing as the Architect couldn't even be bothered trying to open a dialogue with the Warden commander instead attacking the keep and kidnapping wardens. That really inspires confidence and trust in their good will.

As for the Architect not being unique are there any suggestions to that? As for disciples yeah but they can't make more of them. And killing the Architect stops his experiments. My warden will kill as many as hte darkspawn attempting to follow in the Architect's footsteps as she has to. (Unless you mean Corypheus but he wasn't trying to improve any darkspawn. He just wanted out). Which of course means the Architect could've been a crazed Magister that got corrupted which...only makes me less willing to trust him and let him live.

Sure they might be able to be reasoned with...or they might not care. You want to take that risk? Fine. I wasn't.

The Eluvian killed 2 people. Merrill was building it with the help of a demon. What exactly good things could come of that? Nothing beneficial occurs from the mirror being rebuilt.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2013 - 10:33 .

[NessCraig]

I would love to see Merril back. Much like Morrigan is going to be different in this game (given the time development) I could see Merril being head of a Elven clan - side faction... vastly against blood magic ... anything is possible with BioWare

Side note: I loved her banter with Isabella- it was my favorite inner dialogues between characters.

(Much like Wynne should up in DA Awakening.)

[In Exile]

DKJaigen wrote...
You assume that the darkspawn can be defeated by intelligence . but not even the dwarven empire or the tevinter imperium  could do so and who says that the spawn will be content to sit in the deeps roads when the last archdemon dies? If you wish to fight an opponent you must first understand him.  ultimilty  you accomplished nothing the architect may not be an unique darkspawn and their are still disciples around

Intelligence makes them  more dangerous? but they can be reasoned with. The black city can happen again. But  if you understand what it is you can take steps to prevent it.

They can't be reasoned with. They reproduce through cannibalistic rape. Killing an archdemon ends a blight. Killing an intelligent darkspawn changes absolutely nothing. Some of them are completely insane - like the mothers - and the majority are irredeemably evil, whether we're talking about the mother's servants or the Architect. 

Killing the Architect is a good first step, but the only thing that will end the darkspawn threat is killing every last darkspawn. Anything else is just a step closer to extiction. 

[CVigilantia]

I am reminded of the quest where you have to rescue Feynriel from that cave on the Wounded Coast and a slaver has a sword to his neck. There's a few options but the two that come to mind are Varric talking the slaver down with a big story about how Feynriel is the Vicount's bastard child or... Hawke is a rogue and does a slow-mo throw and embeds a dagger in the slaver's throat.

I feel that's what we missed, the "what if" if we'd actually had a bloody choice in the final matter. Maybe we'd have actually found a way to finish the mirror, maybe we persuade Merrill down after a chat with Audacity, maybe we kill the demon or kill Merrill because she gets possessed (lord knows enough people want to do that now). Unfortunately, all of that is unknown because we don't get that choice.

Instead... Leeroy Jenkins Keeper Marethari. Dun worry, Merrill, I got dis.

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
You assume that the darkspawn can be defeated by intelligence . but not even the dwarven empire or the tevinter imperium  could do so and who says that the spawn will be content to sit in the deeps roads when the last archdemon dies? If you wish to fight an opponent you must first understand him.  ultimilty  you accomplished nothing the architect may not be an unique darkspawn and their are still disciples around

Intelligence makes them  more dangerous? but they can be reasoned with. The black city can happen again. But  if you understand what it is you can take steps to prevent it.

They can't be reasoned with. They reproduce through cannibalistic rape. Killing an archdemon ends a blight. Killing an intelligent darkspawn changes absolutely nothing. Some of them are completely insane - like the mothers - and the majority are irredeemably evil, whether we're talking about the mother's servants or the Architect. 

Killing the Architect is a good first step, but the only thing that will end the darkspawn threat is killing every last darkspawn. Anything else is just a step closer to extiction. 

The Architect doesn't seem to be evil; rather, it doesn't seem to understand how humans work. It wants a mutually beneficial arrangement, but doesn't yet know how to do it well. However, I think it's well-intentioned enough for us to work together.

Tainted creatures don't seem to die of old age, so the darkspawn wouldn't need to keep taking more broodmothers if the ones currently in existence weren't actively hunted.

[Chashan]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Architect doesn't seem to be evil; rather, it doesn't seem to understand how humans work. It wants a mutually beneficial arrangement, but doesn't yet know how to do it well. However, I think it's well-intentioned enough for us to work together.

Tainted creatures don't seem to die of old age, so the darkspawn wouldn't need to keep taking more broodmothers if the ones currently in existence weren't actively hunted.

It understands well enough just how non-'spawn work:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jlYdi36593s

(Yes, I do not much like the look of that Warden-fella as well)

Having said that, it openly admitting that it and its fellow 'spawn simply follow their nature hearing the Archdemons' call and the crazies among its ranks didn't exactly endear me to its proposal back in the day.


On the actual topic, I wouldn't mind seeing Merril again. If she grew somewhat beyond her all-out naivete in DA2 what with what she went through there, I would see that as a reasonable progression of her character.

Modifié par Chashan, 19 septembre 2013 - 01:56 .

[BlueMagitek]

Eh, I'd rather not see too many characters from past games that aren't in a position to be seen again. It makes the world seem small.

If the Inquisitor goes to Orlais, why would he run into Loghain unless he sought him out? If he goes to Ferelden he might see Alistar/Anora, since they're the political power there, but some random Dalish from nowhere? Come on now. :/

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Tainted creatures don't seem to die of old age, so the darkspawn wouldn't need to keep taking more broodmothers if the ones currently in existence weren't actively hunted.

Let's imagine that 99.9% of all darkspawn are moral paragons of virtue. They will never take a life. They will never even cause mild harm. Now let's imagine that 0.1% are violent, and might kill in certain circumstances (such as conflict). Let's also imagine that all darkspawn would only rape to prevent the extiction of their species.

Darkspawn are ageless, but not immortal. They'll die from accidents, falls, whatever. They'll die from other darkspawn.

Over time, the number of darkspawn will continue to fall. They will get closer to extinction. And they will need to rape and mutate women to keep up their numbers. Even before getting to a critically low number of darkspawn, they will as a pragmatic matter have to keep raping just to keep their numbers enough to prevent non-darkspawn from eradicating them.

The Architect doesn't seem to be evil; rather, it doesn't seem to understand how humans work. It wants a mutually beneficial arrangement, but doesn't yet know how to do it well. However, I think it's well-intentioned enough for us to work together.

Even if the Architect isn't evil, the darkspawn serving it are. There is no mutual benefit. The very existence of the darkspawn is a poison. Even if they could supress they taint, they could always unleash the worst biogical weapon in Thedosian history. And that's ignoring the fact that the rape is 100% to allow the darkspawn to continue to exist. 

[DKJaigen]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Tainted creatures don't seem to die of old age, so the darkspawn wouldn't need to keep taking more broodmothers if the ones currently in existence weren't actively hunted.

Let's imagine that 99.9% of all darkspawn are moral paragons of virtue. They will never take a life. They will never even cause mild harm. Now let's imagine that 0.1% are violent, and might kill in certain circumstances (such as conflict). Let's also imagine that all darkspawn would only rape to prevent the extiction of their species.

Darkspawn are ageless, but not immortal. They'll die from accidents, falls, whatever. They'll die from other darkspawn.

Over time, the number of darkspawn will continue to fall. They will get closer to extinction. And they will need to rape and mutate women to keep up their numbers. Even before getting to a critically low number of darkspawn, they will as a pragmatic matter have to keep raping just to keep their numbers enough to prevent non-darkspawn from eradicating them.

The Architect doesn't seem to be evil; rather, it doesn't seem to understand how humans work. It wants a mutually beneficial arrangement, but doesn't yet know how to do it well. However, I think it's well-intentioned enough for us to work together.

Even if the Architect isn't evil, the darkspawn serving it are. There is no mutual benefit. The very existence of the darkspawn is a poison. Even if they could supress they taint, they could always unleash the worst biogical weapon in Thedosian history. And that's ignoring the fact that the rape is 100% to allow the darkspawn to continue to exist. 

Perhaps or perhaps not. You just assume that this will continue. But any chance you have to better understand your opponent must be taken. Their is indeed no mutual benefit because the darkspawn hold ALL the cards and yet when a darkspawn offers to surrender some of those cards you refuse? The damage is already done: their are now intelligent darkspawn so killing the architect will accomplish nothing siding with may allow the wardens to permantly control the darkspawn.

[DKJaigen]

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

[Rawgrim]

DKJaigen wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

Her kind of moronic meddlings with stuff she doesn`t understand is the very reason why there is a circle in the first place.

[Shadow Fox]

DKJaigen wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

Making herself into a pariah and living in a dirty hovel in a slum obsessing over a broken artifact for a decade are hardly accomplisments.

[LobselVith8]

DKJaigen wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

Using blood magic proficiently for several years, being adept enough to discern the nature of the Profane Abomination, possessing the intellect to identify if Keran was possessed, and her empathy - which allows her to oppose selling Fenris to slavery or killing Anders, despite the fact that the two treated her horribly for years.

[Rawgrim]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

Using blood magic proficiently for several years, being adept enough to discern the nature of the Profane Abomination, possessing the intellect to identify if Keran was possessed, and her empathy - which allows her to oppose selling Fenris to slavery or killing Anders, despite the fact that the two treated her horribly for years.

Having empathy isn`t an accomplishment.

[Flurdt Vash]

I liked Marrill because she was cute and I figured less likely to give me something that the pirates who dock in unsavory places would. Anders hated me so I never would have trusted a salve from him.

[Eterna]

Chashan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Architect doesn't seem to be evil; rather, it doesn't seem to understand how humans work. It wants a mutually beneficial arrangement, but doesn't yet know how to do it well. However, I think it's well-intentioned enough for us to work together.

Tainted creatures don't seem to die of old age, so the darkspawn wouldn't need to keep taking more broodmothers if the ones currently in existence weren't actively hunted.

It understands well enough just how non-'spawn work:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jlYdi36593s

(Yes, I do not much like the look of that Warden-fella as well)

Having said that, it openly admitting that it and its fellow 'spawn simply follow their nature hearing the Archdemons' call and the crazies among its ranks didn't exactly endear me to its proposal back in the day.

Letting the Architect live is incredibly foolish imo, the only benefit is the potential end to blights if that would even be possible, it most likely isn't. 

[The Elder King]

I agree with Rawgrim that having empathy isn't an accomplishment, though it makes Merrill a better person than Fenris and Anders (with the latter being an hypocrite too).
I'm really glad that interactive banter is in DAI, so that my PC will not stay silent when some companions torment another. I understand being wary/against blood magic, but Fenris and Anders' treatment of Merrill was too much. I guess it was even harder for those who romanced her.

[Dermain]

Rawgrim wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

I wonder what those Merril haters would have said if merrils plan worked and created something beneficial for her people

You'd have to drastically rewrite her to not be an idiot first.

Desdpite being  a total social ditz she has accomplished more then the circle has the last thousand years. pretty impressive for an idiot.

Her kind of moronic meddlings with stuff she doesn`t understand is the very reason why there is a circle in the first place.

Change the her to a him to reference Anders and you've pretty much described why the Circles exist.

: Merrill: Are you all right?
Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?
Merrill: I'm sorry.
Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

So much for Merrill not "understanding" demons. It should have been communicated better to the player, but Merrill knows that the Pride demon was manipulating her to possess her, but she was willing to take that risk (and die for it) if it actually helped the Dalish. For her final personal quest she tells Hawke that s/he was asked there in case something "bad" happened which is odd planning since Merrill is totally a bumbling idiot that doesn't know anything about the spirits/demons. 

[Eterna]

Wynne's spirit seemed pretty nice.

[Flurdt Vash]

Eterna5 wrote...

Wynne's spirit seemed pretty nice.

Just had no personality ... hmmm maybe it was were she was dying and the spirit extended her life, or perhaps its as Anders said, he had to much anger in him. OR ... maybe Justice was right, he hadnt changed he was righting the wrong of the Templars ... but that would suggest that you are pro mage and .... aghhhh my head