575 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Chari wrote...

Chashan wrote...

Chari wrote...

I want DA:O Merril back. Damn retcon and OOCness

At the end of the day, I'd have to agree with that.

Her DA:O-personality_is_drastically different, to a point it would have been more reasonable to go for a different character altogether. Also due to different VA between the two games.

Although then again, as I mentioned the experiences she had in DA2 may lead to her being somewhat closer to her DA:O roots in DA:I.

DA:O and DA2 Sabrae clan and its members are so different from each other, that it would be better if the y simply introduced a new clan
And not the one that already had an established concept and characters

I agree. I guess they wanted to tie Merrill's obsession with the Eluvian to Maharial's experience with it but that's the only connection that stays between games I think.

[Dermain]

Elisif wrote...
The first time he went into Justice Rage Mode he was, sure.  The fact that Merrill makes no distinction between demons and spirits doesn't mean that no Dalish do, ever. It doesn't mean that no other non-Andrastian society with magical traditions make the distinction either.

Merrill doesn't make the distinction because she believes that both are dangerous. She also doesn't make the distinction because the Dalish have their own belief about the Fade that is entirely seperate from the Andrastian beliefs.

[Shadow Fox]

Myrkale wrote...

Elisif wrote...
The first time he went into Justice Rage Mode he was, sure.  The fact that Merrill makes no distinction between demons and spirits doesn't mean that no Dalish do, ever. It doesn't mean that no other non-Andrastian society with magical traditions make the distinction either.

Merrill doesn't make the distinction because she believes that both are dangerous. She also doesn't make the distinction because the Dalish have their own belief about the Fade that is entirely seperate from the Andrastian beliefs.

Too bad Merrill's actions don't match her words at all.

[LobselVith8]

Elisif wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders' short story depicted him as an invincible cannibal. Anders' dialogue in-game states that the distinction is religious, as the dialogue above shows.

The first time he went into Justice Rage Mode he was, sure.  The fact that Merrill makes no distinction between demons and spirits doesn't mean that no Dalish do, ever. It doesn't mean that no other non-Andrastian society with magical traditions make the distinction either. 

The distinction is religious, as I pointed out with Anders' dialogue on the previous page. Anders clearly points out that demons embody different 'sins' and are the Children of the Maker who turned their back on their creator. Why would you think that the Dalish would believer that Demons are Spirits who turned their back on the Maker?

[Kidd]

General TSAR wrote...

LindsayLohan wrote...
Merril = pedophilia. Prove me wrong.

Ah, I see I was not the only one creeped out by Merrill's child-like appearance+mannerisms and her romance. 

Never knew I fancy children. Learn something new every day.

No but seriously, this line of speaking is pretty darn offensive.

[Shadow Fox]

thats1evildude wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Everyone else gets a pass because they've never been in the fade before in a waking state. All they know about it is what they've heard, while Merril knows too well what to expect from it, and she just jumped at the first opportunity because "lol, I have candies".

Mages are not granted some special exception from mind control. Merrill was as susceptible to the demons' magic as any of your companions.

The Mage Warden had been to the Fade before and fought with demons. That didn't make the Mage Warden magically immune to the Sloth Demon's infuence during the encounter in the Circle Tower.

Except no mind control was involved it simply offered her something she wanted.

So yes it was Merrill's stupidity.

[Xilizhra]

Except no mind control was involved it simply offered her something she wanted.

So yes it was Merrill's stupidity.

It was mind control precisely. Merrill says afterwards she has no idea why she did it.

[Kidd]

Xilizhra wrote...

Except no mind control was involved it simply offered her something she wanted.

So yes it was Merrill's stupidity.

It was mind control precisely. Merrill says afterwards she has no idea why she did it.

She does indeed say that. Other companions pretty much mention the same thing when they turn in no time, as well.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't really have that high of an opinion on Merril's plans for the Eluvian or her methods but blaming her for turning on you in the fade is a little unfair.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[LOLandStuff]

The Warden didn't go in the fade by choice. It's Hawke's choice to enter the fade and knowing what he/she's going to deal with. He/she had one simple task, kill the demon and save the kid. The Warden had to escape the fade that was infested with demons since the whole tower had them running amok. I find that a much worse scenario.
And Morrigan and Sten seemed to be doing just fine in the fade. This just proves Merril is weak willed and very delusional about her beliefs and abilities.
I guess even demons have standards. It only took some time for Marethari to give in since some believe Audacity used her.

[Norsky]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The distinction is religious, as I pointed out with Anders' dialogue on the previous page. Anders clearly points out that demons embody different 'sins' and are the Children of the Maker who turned their back on their creator. Why would you think that the Dalish would believer that Demons are Spirits who turned their back on the Maker?

I think we're having a misunderstanding here. Anders' idea that demons are spirits that turned their back on the Maker is clearly Andrastian. The idea that fade beings can be generally categorized, among other things, as spirits or demons  based on their behavioural patterns - for example, that spirits normally mind their own business while demons are often more malicious and desiring of getting into the mortal world - is what I think can exist outside of Andrastian tradition. If that makes sense.

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

The Warden didn't go in the fade by choice. It's Hawke's choice to enter the fade and knowing what he/she's going to deal with. He/she had one simple task, kill the demon and save the kid. The Warden had to escape the fade that was infested with demons since the whole tower had them running amok. I find that a much worse scenario.
And Morrigan and Sten seemed to be doing just fine in the fade. This just proves Merril is weak willed and very delusional about her beliefs and abilities.
I guess even demons have standards. It only took some time for Marethari to give in since some believe Audacity used her.

No, that's an absurd conclusion to come to. First of all, Sten was still trapped. Second, that was a function of the sloth demon not being able to come up with a good illusion for Morrigan, or a plausible one with Sten; Wryme was able to pull it off perfectly with Merrill, just as the sloth demon did for Alistair, Leliana, Zevran, Wynne, Shale and Oghren.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

It still doesn't change the fact that Merrill brags about being able to resist and manipulate demons and fell for one in seconds.

Er, she doesn't. You're either poorly extrapolating something or outright inventing it.

[LOLandStuff]

No, she pretty much says how she isn't stupid and knows what she's doing.And then BLAM, she gets in the van.

Modifié par LOLandStuff, 19 septembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

No, she pretty much says how she isn't stupid and knows what she's doing.

Which she isn't. Her only flaw was wanting something that could be achieved, which is why the demon was able to get to her.

[LOLandStuff]

A demon tells you what you want to hear, if you fall for it that easily then what makes you think you're qualified to continue playing with a chunk of glass.
She's lucky she didn't cut herself in it and bled to death if being a clutz makes her cute.

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

A demon tells you what you want to hear, if you fall for it that easily then what makes you think you're qualified to continue playing with a chunk of glass.
She's lucky she didn't cut herself in it and bled to death if being a clutz makes her cute.

A demon controls you into thinking this if you encounter it in the Fade, especially empowered by the mind of a dreamer.

[LOLandStuff]

Oh, I get it. Demons in the fade are dangerous. Demons outside the fade is totally safe if they're trapped. The only difference between the two is that one of them has to work harder.

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Oh, I get it. Demons in the fade are dangerous. Demons outside the fade is totally safe if they're trapped. The only difference between the two is that one of them has to work harder.

That's pretty much the case, and Audacity could never have escaped without aid... and the Eluvian doesn't count, as it doesn't even lead into the Fade, nor could it break the prison.

[LOLandStuff]

Sarcasm. Anyway.
The Eluvian does count because Audacity was using it to get to Merrill. Sooner or later she would've set him free, as it was the case in Act III when you go to the cave.
Let's say that in the fade she has the excuse of being mind controlled. But whatever the demon in the cave told her, that was some major BS she fell for.
She didn't stop for one second and question why it wanted to help especially since it was trapped.

"Dude, like I'm trapped in this big ass but disturbingly carved rock, what say you if I lend you my help for no good reason whatsoever and out of the goodness of my heart. Smiley face"

[Xilizhra]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Sarcasm. Anyway.
The Eluvian does count because Audacity was using it to get to Merrill. Sooner or later she would've set him free, as it was the case in Act III when you go to the cave.
Let's say that in the fade she has the excuse of being mind controlled. But whatever the demon in the cave told her, that was some major BS she fell for.
She didn't stop for one second and question why it wanted to help especially since it was trapped.

"Dude, like I'm trapped in this big ass but disturbingly carved rock, what say you if I lend you my help for no good reason whatsoever and out of the goodness of my heart. Smiley face"

The notion that the Eluvian would have worked is absurd and the only person who says it is Audacity as an abomination. And she never intended to free him at all, only to ask about the Eluvian construction.

[draken-heart]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Sarcasm. Anyway.
The Eluvian does count because Audacity was using it to get to Merrill. Sooner or later she would've set him free, as it was the case in Act III when you go to the cave.
Let's say that in the fade she has the excuse of being mind controlled. But whatever the demon in the cave told her, that was some major BS she fell for.
She didn't stop for one second and question why it wanted to help especially since it was trapped.

"Dude, like I'm trapped in this big ass but disturbingly carved rock, what say you if I lend you my help for no good reason whatsoever and out of the goodness of my heart. Smiley face"

The way I see that mess is that the demon was simply playing a game with Merrill and Marethari as pawns in it's game to get out, and that Marethari was the final target as she chose to replace Merrill.

[LOLandStuff]

@Xilizhra You make it sound like she got bored and one day decided to look for the mirror and glue it together to make it pretty again, but needed special glue only a demon has.
But that still doesn't change the fact that Merrill was stupid enough to listen to a demon, and one outside the fade. She just got lucky. And the reason you follow her in Act III is so you could kill her if she gets possessed.

[CVigilantia]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Sarcasm. Anyway.
The Eluvian does count because Audacity was using it to get to Merrill. Sooner or later she would've set him free, as it was the case in Act III when you go to the cave.
Let's say that in the fade she has the excuse of being mind controlled. But whatever the demon in the cave told her, that was some major BS she fell for.
She didn't stop for one second and question why it wanted to help especially since it was trapped.

"Dude, like I'm trapped in this big ass but disturbingly carved rock, what say you if I lend you my help for no good reason whatsoever and out of the goodness of my heart. Smiley face"

Really? I saw it more like the TV-shows/movies where the criminal is behind bars with the female cop interrogating him on the other side. A game of words and intrigue as Merrill and Audacity try to play one another to get what they want. In act III, Merrill brought a SWAT team just in case.

It's made plain in dialogue Merrill knows what the demon wants, but even then she needs that information. Whether she could have ever fixed the mirror and what would have happened if Marethari had moved on is in one of the Bioware writer's books and something we'll never know.

Modifié par CVigilantia, 19 septembre 2013 - 10:27 .