LOLandStuff wrote...
@Xilizhra You make it sound like she got bored and one day decided to look for the mirror and glue it together to make it pretty again, but needed special glue only a demon has.
But that still doesn't change the fact that Merrill was stupid enough to listen to a demon, and one outside the fade. She just got lucky. And the reason you follow her in Act III is so you could kill her if she gets possessed.
LOLandStuff wrote...
@Xilizhra You make it sound like she got bored and one day decided to look for the mirror and glue it together to make it pretty again, but needed special glue only a demon has.
But that still doesn't change the fact that Merrill was stupid enough to listen to a demon, and one outside the fade. She just got lucky. And the reason you follow her in Act III is so you could kill her if she gets possessed.
LOLandStuff wrote...
The reason Hawke even exists is to take the blame for everything.
draken-heart wrote...
LOLandStuff wrote...
The reason Hawke even exists is to take the blame for everything.
Hawke is not to blame for Merrill as the problem existed before Hawke. The whole fault lies with the Demon who made the deal with Merrill in the first place.
Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Except no mind control was involved it simply offered her something she wanted.thats1evildude wrote...
LOLandStuff wrote...
Everyone else gets a pass because they've never been in the fade before in a waking state. All they know about it is what they've heard, while Merril knows too well what to expect from it, and she just jumped at the first opportunity because "lol, I have candies".
Mages are not granted some special exception from mind control. Merrill was as susceptible to the demons' magic as any of your companions.
The Mage Warden had been to the Fade before and fought with demons. That didn't make the Mage Warden magically immune to the Sloth Demon's infuence during the encounter in the Circle Tower.
So yes it was Merrill's stupidity.
Elisif wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
The distinction is religious, as I pointed out with Anders' dialogue on the previous page. Anders clearly points out that demons embody different 'sins' and are the Children of the Maker who turned their back on their creator. Why would you think that the Dalish would believer that Demons are Spirits who turned their back on the Maker?
I think we're having a misunderstanding here. Anders' idea that demons are spirits that turned their back on the Maker is clearly Andrastian. The idea that fade beings can be generally categorized, among other things, as spirits or demons based on their behavioural patterns - for example, that spirits normally mind their own business while demons are often more malicious and desiring of getting into the mortal world - is what I think can exist outside of Andrastian tradition. If that makes sense.
Br3ad wrote...
It's called being comforting to a friend.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 19 septembre 2013 - 11:05 .
LOLandStuff wrote...
@Xilizhra You make it sound like she got bored and one day decided to look for the mirror and glue it together to make it pretty again, but needed special glue only a demon has.
LOLandStuff wrote...
But that still doesn't change the fact that Merrill was stupid enough to listen to a demon, and one outside the fade. She just got lucky. And the reason you follow her in Act III is so you could kill her if she gets possessed.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Ya know, I kinda like Merril, but I really wish people would stop defending her with the "everyone else is ignorant of the demons/elvens lore/Elluvian" defense.
I need Internet-deployable EMP bombs. Among the most fun items I can imagine.Ryzaki wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Ya know, I kinda like Merril, but I really wish people would stop defending her with the "everyone else is ignorant of the demons/elvens lore/Elluvian" defense.
This.
I like Merrill but she has some "...really Merrill?" moments.
And now I'm gonna do my Merill rivalrymance. Yet again.
Face of Evil wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
It's called being comforting to a friend.
Horse ****. Mind control is a pretty standard ability demons. If you don't see that, then you're being willfully blind.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 septembre 2013 - 11:47 .
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.Ryzaki wrote...
Face of Evil wrote...
Br3ad wrote...
It's called being comforting to a friend.
Horse ****. Mind control is a pretty standard ability demons. If you don't see that, then you're being willfully blind.
And yet Mind Control can be fought by a strong enough will.
Hawke's problem is his friends are ****ty.
I highly doubt Bethany or Carver (yes even Carver) could've been convinced to kill Hawke.
ah Xili *rivalmances Merill everywhere*
Xilizhra wrote...
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.
Sten doesn't resist the sloth demon. He knows that the illusion isn't real, which is obvious in a way that the others aren't, but still doesn't want to leave. Even Morrigan can't leave herself, for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with will, it's because the sloth demon made crappy illusions for them because it's not omniscient, like it did with the Warden. And the Warden was able to talk down other companions because the demon was trying to keep them quiescent, not violent; Caress and Wryme wanted Hawke dead right then, and no amount of speech would have worked.Ryzaki wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.
I doubt it. The demons can be resisted by a sufficently strong will (DAO shows this with Morrigan and Sten). And Hawke would know Bethany/Carver well enough to talk them down (like how the Warden can talk the other companions before they turn on him/her).
Xilizhra wrote...
Sten doesn't resist the sloth demon. He knows that the illusion isn't real, which is obvious in a way that the others aren't, but still doesn't want to leave. Even Morrigan can't leave herself, for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with will, it's because the sloth demon made crappy illusions for them because it's not omniscient, like it did with the Warden. And the Warden was able to talk down other companions because the demon was trying to keep them quiescent, not violent; Caress and Wryme wanted Hawke dead right then, and no amount of speech would have worked.Ryzaki wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.
I doubt it. The demons can be resisted by a sufficently strong will (DAO shows this with Morrigan and Sten). And Hawke would know Bethany/Carver well enough to talk them down (like how the Warden can talk the other companions before they turn on him/her).
Ryzaki wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.
I doubt it. The demons can be resisted by a sufficently strong will (DAO shows this with Morrigan and Sten). And Hawke would know Bethany/Carver well enough to talk them down (like how the Warden can talk the other companions before they turn on him/her).
No, it's just having eyes. Arguably, it's less resistant, as he knows it's not real and yet still can't leave.That in itself is resistance.
IIRC, once the other areas of the Fade blocking individual nightmares are cleared, that is the exit.And they can't leave because they don't have the exit. Not even the warden can do that on his/her own. They needed Niall's help.
The demons attack the Warden after the Warden removes their prisoner; they don't start out aggressive (the demons in other areas of the Fade are just guards).And you don't think the desire and pride demon's offers were pretty iffy? Particularly Aveline's? She of all people would know you can't bring back the dead. (Also the demons do attack the warden after he/she breaks free so I don't know where this not violent arguement is coming from).
LobselVith8 wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Of course they could. Especially in the Fade.
I doubt it. The demons can be resisted by a sufficently strong will (DAO shows this with Morrigan and Sten). And Hawke would know Bethany/Carver well enough to talk them down (like how the Warden can talk the other companions before they turn on him/her).
All the companions are railroaded by the Plot into betraying Hawke in a matter of seconds; I don't see how you can say a certain companion wouldn't betray him when the Plot Dictated that everyone (but Anders) betrayed Hawke after a few seconds of a specific demon making them an offer.
Xilizhra wrote...
No, it's just having eyes. Arguably, it's less resistant, as he knows it's not real and yet still can't leave.
IIRC, once the other areas of the Fade blocking individual nightmares are cleared, that is the exit.
The demons attack the Warden after the Warden removes their prisoner; they don't start out aggressive (the demons in other areas of the Fade are just guards).
The offers to Isabela and Merrill were tailored perfectly, and Fenris and Varric have logical ones too. Aveline's is the only shaky one, but she saw Wesley return to her right then, as opposed to Sten, whose dream didn't seem to explicitly show demons becoming his companions.
Ryzaki wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
All the companions are railroaded by the Plot into betraying Hawke in a matter of seconds; I don't see how you can say a certain companion wouldn't betray him when the Plot Dictated that everyone (but Anders) betrayed Hawke after a few seconds of a specific demon making them an offer.
Probably because I can see everyone that was railroaded by the plot killing Hawke but the sibilings. You can turn every character against you (even rival Varric can't stand Hawke) save the siblings. That's why I believe they'd be saved from Plot demands (That said if they too were railroaded into the MUST BETRAY HAWKE realm god how can you actually be dumber than Hawke?)
Because the point of the illusion was precisely that, to make people not want to leave.He doesn't want to leave thus "It's a dream but it's a nice dream." So how is that not resistent? People are allowed to have regret and remorse.
Sloth is lower on the totem pole than desire and pride, and they might not be able to create feelings of aggression, only... well, sloth.They get aggressive the second the Warden tries to convince the companion it's not real. And they don't even attempt to turn said companion against the Warden.
Because it's in a Fade realm. Which is precisely where she's not going to deal with any demons.Merrill makes me laugh and sigh because it proves EXACTLY why she shouldn't be doing what she's doing to begin with. If she can't resist mind control then why should I believe she can resist it any other time?
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