575 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...
I don't know, it badly weakened the Tevinter Imperium.

Yeah, but it's not like darkspawn have any problem with killing elves. I guess it could be possible it was an elven revenge, turning their enemies gods against them, but if so, it lacks vision for the future of their own people, who will inevitably have to deal with darkspawn and archdemons (see Garahel).

[Xilizhra]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I don't know, it badly weakened the Tevinter Imperium.

Yeah, but it's not like darkspawn have any problem with killing elves. I guess it could be possible it was an elven revenge, turning their enemies gods against them, but if so, it lacks vision for the future of their own people, who will inevitably have to deal with darkspawn and archdemons (see Garahel).

It was only a passing thought in any case. I do wonder what the true answer is.

[dragonflight288]

Whatever a person's opinion of the Eluvian is, any sort of claim that says whether it does or does not work would have to be followed up by a test of its capabilities, to show how it does or doesn't work. Some may hate the eluvian and take Merethari's word over Merrill's over it. Some may say that Merrill was more in the right because Merethari refused to study the eluvian and couldn't possibly know what she's talking about as a result.

The only true way to say who is right, and who is wrong is actually quite simple. Take Merrill's eluvian and activate it. If it connects to all the other eluvians, or acts as Morrigan's did as a portal, then it's working great and we can study its capabilities further. If it actually did do what Merethari felt it would, then it would have to be shattered immediately.

Without such a test, it's impossible to say who was truly right or wrong. And that means taking a risk.

To use an example from popular culture, the movies "Back to the Future." Dr. Emmet Brown puts his dog Einstein inside the car, and sends him into the future by one minute. Marty's first response is "you incinerated einstein!" If the time machine failed, or blew up, he would've killed his dog, and his experiment would've been a total failure. But the only way to say for sure it worked, was to test it, and it was a successful test.

I'm using that example because the flux capacitor was nuclear in the first movie, powered by plutonium, and if it exploded, it would've been bad for the whole town. But it worked, and it worked well.

I'm willing to bet that if Merrill's home-made eluvian was activated and worked well, she would be hailed as a hero of the Dalish, and Merethari the naive fool.

[LucianaIV]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Whatever a person's opinion of the Eluvian is, any sort of claim that says whether it does or does not work would have to be followed up by a test of its capabilities, to show how it does or doesn't work. Some may hate the eluvian and take Merethari's word over Merrill's over it. Some may say that Merrill was more in the right because Merethari refused to study the eluvian and couldn't possibly know what she's talking about as a result.

The only true way to say who is right, and who is wrong is actually quite simple. Take Merrill's eluvian and activate it. If it connects to all the other eluvians, or acts as Morrigan's did as a portal, then it's working great and we can study its capabilities further. If it actually did do what Merethari felt it would, then it would have to be shattered immediately.

Without such a test, it's impossible to say who was truly right or wrong. And that means taking a risk.

To use an example from popular culture, the movies "Back to the Future." Dr. Emmet Brown puts his dog Einstein inside the car, and sends him into the future by one minute. Marty's first response is "you incinerated einstein!" If the time machine failed, or blew up, he would've killed his dog, and his experiment would've been a total failure. But the only way to say for sure it worked, was to test it, and it was a successful test.

I'm using that example because the flux capacitor was nuclear in the first movie, powered by plutonium, and if it exploded, it would've been bad for the whole town. But it worked, and it worked well.

I'm willing to bet that if Merrill's home-made eluvian was activated and worked well, she would be hailed as a hero of the Dalish, and Merethari the naive fool.

Marethari had valid reasons to fear even it's activation though, she already lost 2 clan members to that very same Eluvian Merril is fixing, Tamlen and Mahariel, so off course she isn't going to take her students word for it when she claims that she has cleansed it, especially since that student is making deals with demons and using blood magic.

Anyhow, as I stated before, while she is cute in DA2, I'd prefer, at least in personality, to have DAO's Merril back, I always felt like there was no valid reason for Merril to go from levelheaded and realistic to suddenly naive and even somewhat of a klutz.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[Plaintiff]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Whatever a person's opinion of the Eluvian is, any sort of claim that says whether it does or does not work would have to be followed up by a test of its capabilities, to show how it does or doesn't work. Some may hate the eluvian and take Merethari's word over Merrill's over it. Some may say that Merrill was more in the right because Merethari refused to study the eluvian and couldn't possibly know what she's talking about as a result.

The only true way to say who is right, and who is wrong is actually quite simple. Take Merrill's eluvian and activate it. If it connects to all the other eluvians, or acts as Morrigan's did as a portal, then it's working great and we can study its capabilities further. If it actually did do what Merethari felt it would, then it would have to be shattered immediately.

Since we don't know the full capabilities of the eluvian, it's likely that a working eluvian could do exactly what Marethari feared.

The eluvian can connect to other working eluvians, it can connect to 'other places', whatever they are. When encountering the eluvian in DA:O, the obvious implication was that Tamlen saw the Black City through it, so I think it's safe to assume it connects to the Fade too.

Who's to say it couldn't be used to reach into a statue and pluck out a pride demon?

I don't think Audacity was trying to pull some double-blind on Marethari, I think his plan was very simple; he was banking on Merrill constructing a working eluvian so that he could, at some point, use it to escape.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:22 .

[TEWR]

When encountering the eluvian in DA:O, the obvious implication was that Tamlen saw the Black City through it, so I think it's safe to assume it connects to the Fade too.

He actually says he saw a city, underground.

The obvious implication is actually that he saw Arlathan, reportedly sunken underneath the earth by the Magisters of Tevinter.

[Plaintiff]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When encountering the eluvian in DA:O, the obvious implication was that Tamlen saw the Black City through it, so I think it's safe to assume it connects to the Fade too.

He actually says he saw a city, underground.

The obvious implication is actually that he saw Arlathan, reportedly sunken underneath the earth by the Magisters of Tevinter.

And Arlathan spreads the Darkspawn taint just by looking at it?

There's a dozen cities he could be looking at "underground", if what he was seeing is accurate. I know you remember that dwarves are part of the setting.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When encountering the eluvian in DA:O, the obvious implication was that Tamlen saw the Black City through it, so I think it's safe to assume it connects to the Fade too.

He actually says he saw a city, underground.

The obvious implication is actually that he saw Arlathan, reportedly sunken underneath the earth by the Magisters of Tevinter.

No, the obvious implication is that it was a dwarven thaig.

[TEWR]

Plaintiff wrote...

And Arlathan spreads the Darkspawn taint just by looking at it?

If Darkspawn have conquered it and the other Eluvian is tainted, why not?

Certainly doesn't seem like looking at the Black City could corrupt a person. It was being there (in its already corrupted state, as we recall Corypheus' remarks) that does that.

There's a dozen cities he could be looking at "underground", if what he was seeing is accurate. I know you remember that dwarves are part of the setting.

Sure, but Arlathan's really the first thing one might think of. Where is elven junk most prevalent? Areas of Elven origin. And an elven area was reportedly sunk beneath the earth.

I'm not saying Dwarven ruins aren't possible -- though I doubt the likelihood -- only that, really, it seems like Arlathan's what he saw. To me, at least.

The Elves of Arlathan were scattered after Arlathan's demise, only able to bring with them smaller things (per the History of Cad'halash) as opposed to giant honking mirrors. Well, logically that's about all one could expect them to bring I'd think. Small stuff, things they could carry, as opposed to giant crap that could also just be rebuilt later on.

Bringing mirrors and the like is pretty noticeable.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:56 .

[DKJaigen]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I don't know, it badly weakened the Tevinter Imperium.

Yeah, but it's not like darkspawn have any problem with killing elves. I guess it could be possible it was an elven revenge, turning their enemies gods against them, but if so, it lacks vision for the future of their own people, who will inevitably have to deal with darkspawn and archdemons (see Garahel).

possibly but it could be that some of the elves employed something akin to a scorced earth and then pissed of to another world

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Elves of Arlathan were scattered after Arlathan's demise

The dwarven cities were there long before that point.

[LobselVith8]

LucianaIV wrote...

Marethari had valid reasons to fear even it's activation though, she already lost 2 clan members to that very same Eluvian Merril is fixing, Tamlen and Mahariel, so off course she isn't going to take her students word for it when she claims that she has cleansed it, especially since that student is making deals with demons and using blood magic.

By "deals with demons", you mean speaking to an impotent spirit trapped in a totem and sundered from the Fade so she can learn blood magic to cleanse the shard of the taint. Also, Merrill wasn't a ghoul, so that's sufficient evidence, and Marethari makes it clear that she poisoned the clan against Merrill to bully her into coming back to the Sabrae clan, which sparks their bitter argument.

As for the spirit in the totem, Audacity only became dangerous when Marethari intentionally released it, and became an abomination.

LucianaIV wrote...

Anyhow, as I stated before, while she is cute in DA2, I'd prefer, at least in personality, to have DAO's Merril back, I always felt like there was no valid reason for Merril to go from levelheaded and realistic to suddenly naive and even somewhat of a klutz. 

I don't recall Merrill being a klutz when she explained that Keran wasn't possessed, or when she explained the type of spirit inhabiting the Profane Abomination. Culture shock doesn't make Merrill naive, either.

[legbamel]

I don't think Merril's non-ghoul status counts for much in the argument that the cleansing worked. It didn't taint anyone before she cleansed it, either. Whether that means it wasn't enough to do so or there was some other reason, who knows?

[LobselVith8]

legbamel wrote...

I don't think Merril's non-ghoul status counts for much in the argument that the cleansing worked. It didn't taint anyone before she cleansed it, either. Whether that means it wasn't enough to do so or there was some other reason, who knows?

The remaining shards of the Eluvian corrupted the elves who came into contact with it (Witch Hunt), while Finn and Merrill avoid direct physical contact with their respective, corrupted shards.

[ZebOswalt]

I liked Merril. I thought she was fun. i had my Hawke romance her...after a brief romance with Isabelle. She was funny. Her dialogue with Veric was great when you went threw town. She had a lot of funny moments. Even when she talked with Emo elf what's his name. Only glitch I got was my Hawke went off with Isabella when he clearly romanced Meril more, but ah well. I'm guessing in the game at the most she'll get a mention. Since she can leave with Hawke. With Veric , Casandra, & Morgan playing a big role I can't see there room for pour as Veric called her Daisy. And Illana (Oy not a fan of that rouge.) Might be there and well looks like another from Orgains will have to be seen or at lest mentioned. Cause their importance to the World. If you read the comics you can probably guess. Oh and Alister or the Queen will probably show up. So as much as I won't be thrilled sadly I don't see Meril showing up, but will be cool if she does.

[TEWR]

legbamel wrote...

I don't think Merril's non-ghoul status counts for much in the argument that the cleansing worked. It didn't taint anyone before she cleansed it, either. Whether that means it wasn't enough to do so or there was some other reason, who knows?

Well, Anders (a Grey Warden) doesn't say anything about it being tainted despite being in the same room with it in Act 2, and he does have a line of dialogue when you approach Merrill for her quest. But his line is simply "She's got no idea what she's getting into". 

If it was still tainted, and since Anders (and Duncan) were able to sense the Taint in living people -- and in the latter's case, the Eluvian itself -- this would've been something that he could've and should've told Hawke, if it were true, so that Hawke would go "Hmm... good point".

Beyond that, Merrill used blood magic to amplify the Dalish healing magic she had been taught by Marethari to cleanse it. Which when unamplified, had proven to combat the Taint in a living person (Mahariel). Furthermore, we saw that the shards of the Eluvian tainted other Elves in Witch Hunt.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think Merrill, before she used blood magic, used her own magic to suppress and weaken the Taint in the shard (with diminishing returns).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 If anything comes of her Eluvian project (which I endorsed) then yes, I'd want to see her back.


If not, I hope she's gone and never spoken of. Merril was an utterly ridiculous character.

[dragonflight288]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 If anything comes of her Eluvian project (which I endorsed) then yes, I'd want to see her back.


If not, I hope she's gone and never spoken of. Merril was an utterly ridiculous character.

And if her Eluvian proves to have positive consequences that are far-reaching, beyond her clan, then that would only be a good thing.

But still, we have confirmation that Morrigan is coming back, and since she left through an Eluvian in Witch-Hunt, I think it's very safe to say we'll get more information in the next game.

[atheelogos]

mutant_anemone wrote...

She might have a cameo, but I don't expect much more than that. Same for Fenris, Sebastian, etc.

this

[Roman88]

I want the naive, fragile, lovable, babbling 'idiot' back. I adore her. Best DA character - something like Tali from ME. I'm game.

[AWTEW]

 Uhh necro-thread much?

[Linkenski]

As few returning cast members as possible please. Bioware has this tendency to completely fail at continuing the arc of pre-established characters. Best examples are Leliana and Anders.

[Uccio]

Sure, as long as my Hawke is with her. She reminds me of my missus.

[Dieb]

I love Merrill, but unless they'd come up with a really great idea, I wouldn't know why.

 

She served her purpose as introducing a less evil-motivated angle to Blood Magic & the Eluvians (DAO DLC being optional) and it wouldn't seem believeable if they brought her back as the "naive inexperienced blue-eyed girl" once more, after all she's been through at this point.

 

So anything but a brief cameo has a 95% chance of being terrible.

 

 Uhh necro-thread much?

Easy.

 

Better than starting a new one.

[Unpleasant Implications]

I don't. Hate her voice. Hate her character. Dislike the Dalish.