575 réponses à ce sujet

[Razored1313]

Xilizhra wrote...

......you mean besides the LAST one killing tamlen and potentially the dalish warden when not chosen?

Indeed, given that Merrill got rid of the darkspawn taint, which Anders can confirm. Not to mention that she's been handling it for years and not sickened and died...

look you have your opinion, i have mine. I believe, while blood magic may not be evil in itself, that merril was too naive to handle something like that. and also i believe making a deal with a demon for power, regardless of reason, is evil in itself since it gets a foothold in the mage. My hawke did the rivalry path, not romance rivalry, but rivalry and i think shes better off for it. also if you look under merril and trivia in the dragon age wiki it says "Mike Laidlaw said at PAX East 2013, that Merrill fixing the mirror was a 'bad call'" i can't provide a source for it...aside form the dragon age wiki, so i understand that you might not take it at face value, but i believe that rivalry will be better for her in the long run.

[LobselVith8]

Roninbarista wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Merill consorted with a demon that had the ultimate goal of taking over her body. Merill was to stubborn to see that, and as it was pointed out to Merill, "she wasn't listening."

Taking over Marethari's body. Merrill didn't go back to see that demon for years, whereas Marethari was camped on top of it for the whole time. And there's no way that Marethari wasn't already possessed when you go see her in Act 3, given that teleportation spells don't exist in DA.

I don't know about that.  This *is* Merill's fault. No escaping that. 

The fact is that Marethari let Audacity loose. Blaming Merrill for Marethari's actions makes no sense to me, especially when Audacity can't possess Merrill when it was trapped in a totem for over a millennia.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know about that. This *is* Merill's fault. No escaping that.

Let me add that I like Merill. I, however see where she made a mess, and can't return to being the sweet, innocent blood mage anymore.

It's Marethari's and Audacity's fault. Merrill's role was only peripheral.

[Roninbarista]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't know about that. This *is* Merill's fault. No escaping that.

Let me add that I like Merill. I, however see where she made a mess, and can't return to being the sweet, innocent blood mage anymore.

It's Marethari's and Audacity's fault. Merrill's role was only peripheral.

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions. 

[LobselVith8]

froogle345 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, given that Merrill got rid of the darkspawn taint, which Anders can confirm. Not to mention that she's been handling it for years and not sickened and died...

look you have your opinion, i have mine. I believe, while blood magic may not be evil in itself, that merril was too naive to handle something like that. and also i believe making a deal with a demon for power, regardless of reason, is evil in itself since it gets a foothold in the mage. My hawke did the rivalry path, not romance rivalry, but rivalry and i think shes better off for it. also if you look under merril and trivia in the dragon age wiki it says "Mike Laidlaw said at PAX East 2013, that Merrill fixing the mirror was a 'bad call'" i can't provide a source for it...aside form the dragon age wiki, so i understand that you might not take it at face value, but i believe that rivalry will be better for her in the long run.

Well, considering Marethari let Audacity loose, became an abomination, and left her clan nearby - which can lead to the hunters attempting to murder Merrill in cold blood for defending herself from their asinine Keeper, I suppose it's easy to see why Laidlaw would see it as a "bad call".

[animedreamer]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

 I'll just throw this in for the hell of it.
https://i.chzbgr.com...7152/h324E4DE9/

Sounds about right, looks about right, both seem to be oblivious to the law for the most part.

[LobselVith8]

Roninbarista wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's Marethari's and Audacity's fault. Merrill's role was only peripheral.

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions. 

Merrill studied the Eluvian; there's no indication Marethari did. Why should Marethari be trusted over Merrill when the former is ignorant about the Eluvian, while the latter researched them? Merrill conversed with a trapped Audacity; Marethari let Audacity loose. Marethari was likely manipulated by Audacity; she was likely the target all along, since Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke that she won't free Audacity. And Marethari paid the price for letting Audacity loose; continuing to blame Merrill for the actions of another grown adult doesn't sway some of us.

[Razored1313]

LobselVith8 wrote...

froogle345 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, given that Merrill got rid of the darkspawn taint, which Anders can confirm. Not to mention that she's been handling it for years and not sickened and died...

look you have your opinion, i have mine. I believe, while blood magic may not be evil in itself, that merril was too naive to handle something like that. and also i believe making a deal with a demon for power, regardless of reason, is evil in itself since it gets a foothold in the mage. My hawke did the rivalry path, not romance rivalry, but rivalry and i think shes better off for it. also if you look under merril and trivia in the dragon age wiki it says "Mike Laidlaw said at PAX East 2013, that Merrill fixing the mirror was a 'bad call'" i can't provide a source for it...aside form the dragon age wiki, so i understand that you might not take it at face value, but i believe that rivalry will be better for her in the long run.

Well, considering Marethari let Audacity loose, became an abomination, and left her clan nearby - which can lead to the hunters attempting to murder Merrill in cold blood for defending herself from their asinine Keeper, I suppose it's easy to see why Laidlaw would see it as a "bad call".

the events of that part don't change based on friendship or rivalry. since merrill was going to see the demon anyway and wanted hawke to come just in case what happened actually DID occur. i took laidlaws comment to mean that merrill will have a cameo, and those who chose friendship might be a tad disappointed with the outcome....

either way i don't honestly care what happens to her, she left no impression on me, but i am happy for you that you care so much about her to be so impassioned about her, it means the writers are doing their jobs well!

Modifié par froogle345, 18 septembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Eterna]

Xilizhra wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Because I do the same thing. If you actually loved her, why would you go out with her only to emotionally abuse and mentally dominate her?

Is forcing a drug addict you love to go rehab and then making them see why said drug is  bad considered emotional abuse? 

Or should you just let them continue down that dangerous path becuse you don't wish to upset them? 

If blood magic was a drug or inherently bad, your analogy might have some merit. Alas, neither is true.

No, but she is so absorbed with the mirror that it is borderline obsessive. Being a blood mage in Kirkwall is also an incredibly poor and dangerous choice.

Blood magic may not be like a drug, but this series teaches us that it almost always leads to a persons ruin.  I just feel like anyone who genuinely loved someone would try to steer them away from that path instead of blindy supporting them. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 18 septembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Xilizhra]

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions.

For her own.

No, but she is so absorbed with the mirror that it is borderline obsessive. Being a blood mage in Kirkwall is also an incredibly poor and dangerous choice.

I can't criticize too heavily when I do the same thing.

Blood magic may not be like a drug, but this series teaches us that it almost always leads to a persons ruin. I just feel like anyone who genuinely loved someone would try to steer them away from that path instead of blindy supporting them.

It led to neither my Warden's ruin nor Hawke's. Nor Jowan's, really; he pulled himself back up.

[Eterna]

Xilizhra wrote...

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions.

For her own.

No, but she is so absorbed with the mirror that it is borderline obsessive. Being a blood mage in Kirkwall is also an incredibly poor and dangerous choice.

I can't criticize too heavily when I do the same thing.

Blood magic may not be like a drug, but this series teaches us that it almost always leads to a persons ruin. I just feel like anyone who genuinely loved someone would try to steer them away from that path instead of blindy supporting them.

It led to neither my Warden's ruin nor Hawke's. Nor Jowan's, really; he pulled himself back up.

Well nevermind then, it makes perfect sense if you're playing a Blood Mage. 

But really, 2 and a half examples of blood Magic working out isn't very convincing, especially since two of those examples are the player character. 

[Jackums]

I want none of the previous companions, or player characters, back, except Morrigan for story reasons, which has been confirmed.

[Xilizhra]

Eterna5 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions.

For her own.

No, but she is so absorbed with the mirror that it is borderline obsessive. Being a blood mage in Kirkwall is also an incredibly poor and dangerous choice.

I can't criticize too heavily when I do the same thing.

Blood magic may not be like a drug, but this series teaches us that it almost always leads to a persons ruin. I just feel like anyone who genuinely loved someone would try to steer them away from that path instead of blindy supporting them.

It led to neither my Warden's ruin nor Hawke's. Nor Jowan's, really; he pulled himself back up.

Well nevermind then, it makes perfect sense if you're playing a Blood Mage. 

But really, 2 and a half examples of blood Magic working out isn't very convincing, especially since two of those examples are the player character. 

I think it worked out for Merrill. The only problem was Marethari betraying her.
I also think being a reaver has the same justification.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 septembre 2013 - 04:33 .

[LobselVith8]

froogle345 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Well, considering Marethari let Audacity loose, became an abomination, and left her clan nearby - which can lead to the hunters attempting to murder Merrill in cold blood for defending herself from their asinine Keeper, I suppose it's easy to see why Laidlaw would see it as a "bad call".

the events of that part don't change based on friendship or rivalry. since merrill was going to see the demon anyway and wanted hawke to come just in case what happened actually DID occur. i took laidlaws comment to mean that merrill will have a cameo, and those who chose friendship might be a tad disappointed with the outcome....

either way i don't honestly care what happens to her, she left no impression on me, but i am happy for you that you care so much about her to be so impassioned about her, it means the writers are doing their jobs well!

I can't imagine any disappointment in a proactive Dalish elf who refused to stand idly by when she could try to help her people. My apostate Hawke knew better than to condemn her over something he was completely ignorant about. And I was quite happy with the outcome I did learn about - Merrill and Hawke stayed together. I hope Merrill becomes a symbol for the Dalish, like my apostate Champion did for the mages.

[LobselVith8]

Eterna5 wrote...

Well nevermind then, it makes perfect sense if you're playing a Blood Mage. 

But really, 2 and a half examples of blood Magic working out isn't very convincing, especially since two of those examples are the player character. 

Well, the Joining (a form of blood magic) and the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic against the darkspawn are other factors that demonstrate that blood magic isn't inherently evil.

[Razored1313]

LobselVith8 wrote...

froogle345 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Well, considering Marethari let Audacity loose, became an abomination, and left her clan nearby - which can lead to the hunters attempting to murder Merrill in cold blood for defending herself from their asinine Keeper, I suppose it's easy to see why Laidlaw would see it as a "bad call".

the events of that part don't change based on friendship or rivalry. since merrill was going to see the demon anyway and wanted hawke to come just in case what happened actually DID occur. i took laidlaws comment to mean that merrill will have a cameo, and those who chose friendship might be a tad disappointed with the outcome....

either way i don't honestly care what happens to her, she left no impression on me, but i am happy for you that you care so much about her to be so impassioned about her, it means the writers are doing their jobs well!

I can't imagine any disappointment in a proactive Dalish elf who refused to stand idly by when she could try to help her people. My apostate Hawke knew better than to condemn her over something he was completely ignorant about. And I was quite happy with the outcome I did learn about - Merrill and Hawke stayed together. I hope Merrill becomes a symbol for the Dalish, like my apostate Champion did for the mages.

and i am happy for you:happy:, i also am pleased with how i resolved that issue. like i said whatever happens to merril happens, makes no difference to me. i roleplay my characters and my hawke was pro-mage, so i understand where you are coming from. my inquisitor will be pro-circle if that is an option....if not then pro-templar if i have no choice. 

Modifié par froogle345, 18 septembre 2013 - 04:41 .

[Ryzaki]

Ugh seeing Naive Merrill would be annoying.

A mature reasonable Merrill like that in the original DAO origin though? Yes please. It's been 10 years.

[LobselVith8]

froogle345 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I can't imagine any disappointment in a proactive Dalish elf who refused to stand idly by when she could try to help her people. My apostate Hawke knew better than to condemn her over something he was completely ignorant about. And I was quite happy with the outcome I did learn about - Merrill and Hawke stayed together. I hope Merrill becomes a symbol for the Dalish, like my apostate Champion did for the mages.

and i am happy for you:happy:, i also am pleased with how i resolved that issue. like i said whatever happens to merril happens, makes no difference to me. i roleplay my characters and my hawke was pro-mage, so i understand where you are coming from. my inquisitor will be pro-circle if that is an option....if not then pro-templar if i have no choice. 

Roleplay is entertaining; I like to immerse myself in the world. I'm thinking about a Dalish mage protagonist. Pro-Dalish, fighting for the People and the reclamation of the Dales as an independent kingdom. Likely clash with the Templar Order, given their history with the Dalish clans. Not sure how the autonomous mages will respond to a Dalish First (or possibly Keeper), or even the Seekers. Wait and see, I suppose.

[Roninbarista]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Roninbarista wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's Marethari's and Audacity's fault. Merrill's role was only peripheral.

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions. 

Merrill studied the Eluvian; there's no indication Marethari did. Why should Marethari be trusted over Merrill when the former is ignorant about the Eluvian, while the latter researched them? Merrill conversed with a trapped Audacity; Marethari let Audacity loose. Marethari was likely manipulated by Audacity; she was likely the target all along, since Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke that she won't free Audacity. And Marethari paid the price for letting Audacity loose; continuing to blame Merrill for the actions of another grown adult doesn't sway some of us.

I've already explained where I based my viewpoints. It seems some of "us" love Merill more than the Keeper did. I get this "we love Merill so much, let's absolve her of all wrongdoing" vibe from these posts. She is guilty, selfish, and was warned not only by the Keeper, but Hawke, Avalene, Fenris, and Anders.  

In regards to not freeing or siding with a demon, Merill may say what she isn't going to do, but her trip to the fade says otherwise. She turned on Hawke with little provication.

Like I said before, Merill is the reason the Circle of Magi exists. She dabbled in forces that she didn't fully understand. If it feels ok to blame the Keeper, than blame her, but at the end of the day Merill's responsible.   

That's not to say Merill wasn't hilartious, silly, and a tad charming. She's also dangerous and destructive. 

[LobselVith8]

Roninbarista wrote...

I've already explained where I based my viewpoints. It seems some of "us" love Merill more than the Keeper did. I get this "we love Merill so much, let's absolve her of all wrongdoing" vibe from these posts. She is guilty, selfish, and was warned not only by the Keeper, but Hawke, Avalene, Fenris, and Anders.

Humans who know nothing about the Eluvian and a Keeper trying to coerce Merrill to return to the fold. People who are ignorant, in other words. If only it was as compelling for me as it is for you.

Roninbarista wrote...

In regards to not freeing or siding with a demon, Merill may say what she isn't going to do, but her trip to the fade says otherwise. She turned on Hawke with little provication.

You realize everyone but Anders betrays Hawke, right? In a matter of seconds; it was a ridiculous quest.

Roninbarista wrote...

Like I said before, Merill is the reason the Circle of Magi exists. She dabbled in forces that she didn't fully understand. If it feels ok to blame the Keeper, than blame her, but at the end of the day Merill's responsible.

That's not to say Merill wasn't hilartious, silly, and a tad charming. She's also dangerous and destructive. 

Merrill was dangerous and destructive because Marethari let Audacity loose, tried to kill Merrill, and possibly caused the demise of the Sabrae clan. I guess that makes sense to you; it seems nonsensical to me.

[Uccio]

She went away with my mage Hawke. If she comes back, Hawke has to come too.

[Stella-Arc]

I believe that Merrill trying to fix the Eluvian was a bad call. It made her obsessive to the point that she forgets to eat, turns to blood magic, and forsakes her clan. However, I will admit that we don't know if the mirror, before the whole darkpawn and Tevinter Imperium part corrupted it, was good or bad. All we know from the Witch Hunt is that is a portal that takes you away from this world or the Fade.

We are told that it is dangerous by nearly everyone (even Isabella!). We weren't shown why which I think is the main reason for all this confusion. Bad writing (or more like rushed writing unfortunately).

I still wonder what was the point of bringing back the Sabare clan, Merrill and the mirror to DAII. I would love to see Merrill back but only if it makes sense.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 18 septembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Bionuts]

I like Merril alot.

She's not stupid. She knows that she's putting others in dangers, that things can go wrong (she only tells you this on Rivalry path if she goes to your house).

Merril is not stupid. Just desperate. Put things into context. The Dalish travel the lands searching for lost history, their culture, and anything to connect them to their past. They've lost their lands, history, etc.

Merril is desperate. You can see it in what she talks about, and the passion she has for fixing the mirror. You can see the desperation on her.

The elves have lost everything. Merril is someone that is desperate to retrieve anything that can possibly benefit her people.

[Blackout62]

Frankly I want to see Merrill again precisely to know where she's goes while at fault for all the things reviewed in this thread.

And I like her as a character, like all aspects of. Still, show me PTSD Merrill!

Modifié par Blackout62, 18 septembre 2013 - 05:41 .

[Nightdragon8]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Roninbarista wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's Marethari's and Audacity's fault. Merrill's role was only peripheral.

We can debate this until Thedas is undone, but the fact reamins Merill is the one who didn't listen, sought out Audacity to cleanse the mirror, and the Keeper paid the price for Merill's actions. 

Merrill studied the Eluvian; there's no indication Marethari did. Why should Marethari be trusted over Merrill when the former is ignorant about the Eluvian, while the latter researched them? Merrill conversed with a trapped Audacity; Marethari let Audacity loose. Marethari was likely manipulated by Audacity; she was likely the target all along, since Merrill tells an aggressive Hawke that she won't free Audacity. And Marethari paid the price for letting Audacity loose; continuing to blame Merrill for the actions of another grown adult doesn't sway some of us.

But Marethari knew not to trust Demons, Which Merrill seemed willing to do. All in the name of "restoring the Elf past" Which sadly 1 mirror doesn't help considering it needs 2 to work correctly.

From what I understood Merrill was going to go there to release the demon anyway, and Marethari just did it in her place, to teach Merrill a lesson. Don't play with Demons, don't listen to them don't trust them, cause all they want to do is cause chaos and destruction. And to think otherwise your a fool.

As for the Daslih elves going crazy and attacking the party over Merrill honestly at that point considering she was already exiled should just have picked up and moved on.

Honestly picking up an aritfact that killed 1-2 people all in the vague hope that you could find them, is a serious dumb move. Also if only 1 person died, the other person was then tainted by the darkspawn, can we really say that was a smart thing to handle?

Think about it, you see an old refegerator, marked with symbols you don't know, you open it and take out a vial and it breaks, you then get deathly ill and die from it. So what the smart thing to do is go back to it and bring it with you? No it wouldn't.