721 réponses à ce sujet

[kinderschlager]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wouldn't it be great, if Bioware could offer two options to keep their
wide ranging base of fans/customers engaged preference-wise, and
ultimately happier?
(1) More Realistic/tactical/subdued, and
(2) More Stylistic/fantasy/outrageous.

The primary issue with providing that option is that it is a huge load of work on the animators.

If the animations end up allowing for some different effects (such as whether or not it imposes a transform on the entity), it means that your combat fundamentally plays differently in both of these modes two, which is when it starts making people like me cry and go into the fetal position because testing will get increasingly complex.

is it wrong that i would pay money to see that 

[Vilegrim]

Mr Massakka wrote...

That's precisely the problem I have with DA2 and DAI (and ME3, but that's another thing): it's more broad asian fantasy than serious dark fantasy. Exaggerated effects are one of the many factors there.

I find it ridiculous that a warrior now rips the ground apart while spinning like an idiot, a thief teleports around the battlefield and red lyrium makes you able to do 3 mid-air-backflip 10m superjumps.

I don't need accurate medieval simulation if it's already called fantasy but I would have wished Dragon Age to remain the consistent serious universe I saw in DAO. Like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, The Elder Scrolls or Witcher: They all have their realism/believability issues inside their boundaries of course, but none of them struggle with their identity as much as DA does.
DA jumps around from dark fantasy to weird comical fantasy and now full on asian fantasy. If they would have established their identity right up front I might have just said "that game's not for me" but now I'm sitting here on the forums, expressing my disappointment how one of my favorite universes fell into the same category as Final Fantasy.

Very well said
If you like overblown wuxai combat in ypur rpgs go pick up pretty much any fantasy rpg from the last 3 years.

Is it really to much to ask that the one series in recent years that didn't start off that way stays away from that genre?  Seriously please tell me about any new recent rpg that doesn't go for awesome button jrpg combat...please.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 20 septembre 2013 - 02:26 .

[Bleachrude]

Then I'm out if the warriors are simply restricted to simply plodding around while the mages actually get to do ANYTHING...

[Vilegrim]

Bleachrude wrote...

Then I'm out if the warriors are simply restricted to simply plodding around while the mages actually get to do ANYTHING...

Go on YouTube and search for fight scenes from game of thrones or iron clad...then tell me that is plodding.  If I wanted to play a mage I would roll a mage..I didn't please don't turn me into one.

[Stalker]

Vilegrim wrote...

Very well said
If you like overblown wuxai combat in ypur rpgs go pick up pretty much any fantasy rpg from the last 3 years.

Is it really to much to ask that the one series in recent years that didn't start off that way stays away from that genre?  Seriously please tell me about any new recent rpg that doesn't go for awesome button jrpg combat...please.

Well, Skyrim became even more grim than its' predecessor, Witcher 2 stayed true to its' universe, Deus Ex HR kept cool, ... it's really just the BioWare games getting more soft, childish and comical with the years.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 20 septembre 2013 - 02:40 .

[Vilegrim]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Very well said
If you like overblown wuxai combat in ypur rpgs go pick up pretty much any fantasy rpg from the last 3 years.

Is it really to much to ask that the one series in recent years that didn't start off that way stays away from that genre?  Seriously please tell me about any new recent rpg that doesn't go for awesome button jrpg combat...please.

Well, Skyrim became even more grim than its' predecessor, Witcher 2 stayed true to its' universe, Deus Ex HR, ... it's really just the BioWare games getting more soft, childish and comical with the years.

Should have said fantasy rpg I do own all 3 of those games but it kinda proves my ppint.  You can name all the rpgs that aren't in one try.  Bet the list of ones that are that way would run to dozens

[In Exile]

Vilegrim wrote...
Is it really to much to ask that the one series in recent years that didn't start off that way stays away from that genre?  Seriously please tell me about any new recent rpg that doesn't go for awesome button jrpg combat...please.

It is, because DA:O started that way. Ignoring the fact that all RPGs are fundamanetally unrealistic because of the way damage is dealt, the actual combat animations are entirely divorced from reality. 

[Wulfram]

Which warrior talents in DA:O (not DA:A) do the animations depict the warrior doing something that they would not be able to do if they were real people?

Some of the knockbacks are exaggerated in effect, and there's the hitpoint stuff and the stuns, and scattershot is ridiculous of course, but it's still clearly different from DA2.

[Bleachrude]

Vilegrim wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Then I'm out if the warriors are simply restricted to simply plodding around while the mages actually get to do ANYTHING...

Go on YouTube and search for fight scenes from game of thrones or iron clad...then tell me that is plodding.  If I wanted to play a mage I would roll a mage..I didn't please don't turn me into one.

WHICH DO NOT USE OVERT MAGIC.

Why do people keep using things like Game of Thrones/LoTR where the magic is nowhere near as flashy/overt as the magic in the DA universe.

A baby dragon, about the zie of a mabari is considered a game changer in the game of thrones. In LotR, the most overt magic we cast by Gandalf is what, the 2nd level D&D spell pyrotechnics?

As for DA:O being "realistic", may I point out the Sacred Ashes traielr with Leliana? She makes Legolas look like a cripple frnankly there...

Similarly, the current  fav dark RPG is the Souls game and nothing we've seen here is out of place there....

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

Which warrior talents in DA:O (not DA:A) do the animations depict the warrior doing something that they would not be able to do if they were real people?

DA:O wasn't realistic. They did things real people could do... if they didn't know how to fight and desperately wanted to die in melee combat. 

Look at the way the warrior handled the shield as a sword and shield warrior. Or the outrageous size of the weapons (which apparently is part of the complaint). Or the entire way the 2H warrior fought.  

Lore wise, the 2H warrior had an ability to shatter stone. 

Some of the knockbacks are exaggerated in effect, and there's the hitpoint stuff and the stuns, and scattershot is ridiculous of course, but it's still clearly different from DA2.

I agree. It's entirely different. It's just not realistic. 

Modifié par In Exile, 20 septembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[Vilegrim]

Bleachrude wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Then I'm out if the warriors are simply restricted to simply plodding around while the mages actually get to do ANYTHING...

Go on YouTube and search for fight scenes from game of thrones or iron clad...then tell me that is plodding.  If I wanted to play a mage I would roll a mage..I didn't please don't turn me into one.

WHICH DO NOT USE OVERT MAGIC.

Why do people keep using things like Game of Thrones/LoTR where the magic is nowhere near as flashy/overt as the magic in the DA universe.

A baby dragon, about the zie of a mabari is considered a game changer in the game of thrones. In LotR, the most overt magic we cast by Gandalf is what, the 2nd level D&D spell pyrotechnics?

As for DA:O being "realistic", may I point out the Sacred Ashes traielr with Leliana? She makes Legolas look like a cripple frnankly there...

Similarly, the current  fav dark RPG is the Souls game and nothing we've seen here is out of place there....

Don't enjoy dark souls ninja rolling and magic weapon moves? Check please I am outta here.  Played (endured to be more accurate) 20ish minutes and decided I had wasted  my money. 

Didn't see sacred ashes until after release. Glad I didn't as it would have put me right off the game.

Ok dark fantasy example with flashy magic: Solomon Kane he is a badass because he overcomes his enemies with rage, faith and skill. Not flashy moves that set off nuclear detonation detectors,  if he did have those moves he would be cheapened the struggle would be meaningless.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I really hate the inquisitors chained hook. I mean really?
Focusing on melee is supposed to have a downside of-  you know - having to close in and being more vulnerable at range.
In DA2 you had the flash step to instantly close the distance.
Now you have a hook, thrown faster than an arrow, that cannot be dodged or blocked (even by shields) and then with a single yank the enemy is INSTANLY pulled in (again, breaking the speed of sound..possibly even light).
Looks like that heavily armored knight must weigh half a pound or something...that or our Inquisitor real name is Kal-El.
One has to wonder how your opponent even survives the sudden shock of being yanked at that speed.

It's very action-y, and that is why I hate. Focus on fast, constant action.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 20 septembre 2013 - 03:37 .

[The Elder King]

@In Exile: which was the 2h ability that is stated to shatter stone?

[In Exile]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I realyl hate the inquisitors chained hook. I mean really? Focusing on melee is suppsoed ot have a downside of you know..having ot close in and being more vulnerable ot range.

Yes, but IRL, melee is absolutely **** and there's never a reason to do it unless you're forced. It's why we wholesale abandoned melee combat the second our guns were good enough to stop. 

Things like fighting 3 people at the same time are just tantamount to an IRL death wish, but somehow people don't complain about that in RPGs. 

[In Exile]

hhh89 wrote...

@In Exile: which was the 2h ability that is stated to shatter stone?

"Shattering blows" which have the 2H warrior "gain a large damage bonus against golems and other constructs." 

Golems and other constructs are made of stone. The name of the skill is "shattering". 

They break rock. 

And looking up that talent, I'm reminded of "sunder armour", where apparently our warrior is good enough to shatter armour with one blow and yet not especially hurt or cripple or otherwise hinter the person wearing that armour. 

Amazingly realistic that. A warrhamer caves in your chestplate without so much as scratching your chest!

[Sol Downer]

hhh89 wrote...

@In Exile: which was the 2h ability that is stated to shatter stone?

Shattering Blows. It gives you the ability to cut through golems like butter. Then there's Destroyer, which makes you cut through STEEL PLATE like butter.

[Wulfram]

@ In Exile

If you agree that warriors animations in DAO "did things that real people do" and that DA2 was entirely different, I don't see anything worth disagreeing about.

edit: and IIRC shattering blows didn't actually do anything, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 septembre 2013 - 03:36 .

[Vilegrim]

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I realyl hate the inquisitors chained hook. I mean really? Focusing on melee is suppsoed ot have a downside of you know..having ot close in and being more vulnerable ot range.

Yes, but IRL, melee is absolutely **** and there's never a reason to do it unless you're forced. It's why we wholesale abandoned melee combat the second our guns were good enough to stop. 

Things like fighting 3 people at the same time are just tantamount to an IRL death wish, but somehow people don't complain about that in RPGs. 

3 people at the same time irl depends 
same equipment level? Yea you die. Knight in full harness vs militia pr men at arms? Knight wins 9/10

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

@ In Exile

If you agree that warriors animations in DAO "did things that real people do" and that DA2 was entirely different, I don't see anything worth disagreeing about.

edit: and IIRC shattering blows didn't actually do anything, so I'm not going to worry about it.

I'm just saying that it's equally unrealistic. It's not wuxia, but saying that DA:O had realistic combat is untrue. 

[Sol Downer]

Wulfram wrote...

@ In Exile

If you agree that warriors animations in DAO "did things that real people do" and that DA2 was entirely different, I don't see anything worth disagreeing about.

edit: and IIRC shattering blows didn't actually do anything, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Plus ten strength versus golems seems like something to me. Not plus ten damage...plus ten strength. Divided by two. Add that to your original strength value.

Modifié par Ultimashade, 20 septembre 2013 - 03:39 .

[In Exile]

Vilegrim wrote...
3 people at the same time irl depends 
same equipment level? Yea you die. Knight in full harness vs militia pr men at arms? Knight wins 9/10

As DA:O illustrates, all darkspawn had ornate plate armour, and the protagonists rarely had matching gear until midgame. 

But you make a good point. Knight wins... 9/10 times. So out of the 1000 encounters we have, it was unrealistic for the Warden should have died 100 times over. 

[The Elder King]

@In Exile: thanks for the reply. And I agree with your opinions on those talents.

@Wulfram: so you're fine with having ridicolous, powerful abilities, as long as they don't have a visual effect?

Modifié par hhh89, 20 septembre 2013 - 03:41 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I realyl hate the inquisitors chained hook. I mean really? Focusing on melee is suppsoed ot have a downside of you know..having ot close in and being more vulnerable ot range.

Yes, but IRL, melee is absolutely **** and there's never a reason to do it unless you're forced. It's why we wholesale abandoned melee combat the second our guns were good enough to stop. 

Things like fighting 3 people at the same time are just tantamount to an IRL death wish, but somehow people don't complain about that in RPGs. 

All warfare is absolutely ***.
Bullet, arrow or sowrd - you still die.

All modern advances did is make killing from range easier. You're no less dead in your example then you would be taking on 3 people with guns.

[Sol Downer]

Then he must not like rogues very much. Anybody remember "Flicker?"

The rogue's deadly speed is unmatched. Within a targeted area, the rogue disappears in a blur, sprinting from target to target to backstab each of them.

[Vilegrim]

In Exile wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...
3 people at the same time irl depends 
same equipment level? Yea you die. Knight in full harness vs militia pr men at arms? Knight wins 9/10

As DA:O illustrates, all darkspawn had ornate plate armour, and the protagonists rarely had matching gear until midgame. 

But you make a good point. Knight wins... 9/10 times. So out of the 1000 encounters we have, it was unrealistic for the Warden should have died 100 times over. 

That sounds lile a decent play through to me..quick save is my bff