721 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Dragon Age has never wanted its combat to be "realistic", that's been clear since Origins. I'm incredibly confused as to where people have gotten this other impression.

[Uccio]

Mages should loose that floating book, seriously. It looks too dam weirdl. Do not want it.

DA2 had pole dancer mages and inquision has what, super nerd?

[Plaintiff]

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

[Vilegrim]

MakutaDax wrote...

Well, just an observation, but DA has never put much stock in realism or credibility when it comes to combat situations. In Origins a Champion could literally knock people off their feet by yelling at them and archers created a sky full of arrows from no where. In DA2 warriors had the tremor talent that, again, knocked people down only this time it was by hitting the ground and causing shock waves. The archers could still create a storm of arrows and if you were a Duelist or Shadow you got access to some totally unrealistic abilities... And I loved every little bit of it!

Having said that, I really don't see how making a few rocks bust up from a crater in the ground should be such a big deal. Well, I take that back, I see how it could be a big deal, but I don't see why. Certainly you can say that the animation is out of place or too flashy/unbelievable, but really, given Inquisition's predecessors, it isn't that far off from what we should all be used to unless you're really just trying to say that you personally were good with the unrealistic combat elements up until they became too much for *you*. That's fine because I know we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game and we have our own levels of tolerance. Me personally, I loved the exploding ground, the Cassandra battering ram, and the harpoon ability. These are things that might get under other people's skin and I respect that, but I'm totally cool with them.

Just my personal thoughts.

I wasn't ok with the shouts, but they where not as mandatory as the harpoon and earth quake are being talked up as, you could be a decent warrior without one, but from the game play vid you cannot be without the harpoon and meteor,

[BBK4114]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

Sorry but I loved the staff twirling faster mage animations of DA2.  I loved a lot of the gameplay in origins but the mage animations were not in that group of things I loved. 

[Vilegrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

yea, they where Majorettes which is soooo much better....

[Plaintiff]

Vilegrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

yea, they where Majorettes which is soooo much better....

It beats poking at the air like it's a dead animal.

[ruggly]

Looks fine to me.

[Vilegrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

yea, they where Majorettes which is soooo much better....

It beats poking at the air like it's a dead animal.

neither worked particularly well in all honesty.

[Vicious]

In Origins a Champion could literally knock people off their feet by yelling at them and archers created a sky full of arrows from no where.

lol, yep.

This isn't Game of Thrones. Characters are superheroic and do superheroic things that fly in the face of reality. Remember when DA:O was referred to as 'dark fantasy'? Except for the brood mother in DA:O, it was all pure marketing.

It's nothing more than a high fantasy setting with unique rules, and Bioware has gone that route. When you realize this, it's much easier to accept people breaking down gates, flaming swords, chain-pull moves, and that Duncan never used any of these wacky badass moves in DA:O though they probably would have helped him and the other wardens not die.

[d4eaming]

Vicious wrote...

In Origins a Champion could literally knock people off their feet by yelling at them and archers created a sky full of arrows from no where.

lol, yep.

This isn't Game of Thrones. Characters are superheroic and do superheroic things that fly in the face of reality. Remember when DA:O was referred to as 'dark fantasy'? Except for the brood mother in DA:O, it was all pure marketing.

It's nothing more than a high fantasy setting with unique rules, and Bioware has gone that route. When you realize this, it's much easier to accept people breaking down gates, flaming swords, chain-pull moves, and that Duncan never used any of these wacky badass moves in DA:O though they probably would have helped him and the other wardens not die.

Dawww you just made me laugh about Duncan's death

[giveamanafish...]

A discussion about medieval sword weights and how and why these weapons have been misrepresented in recent history and in the entertainment industry:
http://www.thearma.o...ays/weights.htm

A example of a chinese staff fighting kata (set pattern of moves used to demonstrate competence in techniques). That ready position, sort of a quarter turn with staff at side should be familiar to anyone who played DAII. I also would like to highlight the dynamic tempo (fast, slow, super fast, pause etc.) which you see thruout the kata, which is typical of higher level kata and is meant to be realistic.


Its probably too late, but I hope Bioware develops their fighting animations for DAInq based on motion capture techniques using trained martial artists, including medieval weapons users. If they have to slow things down to look 'realistic', so be it.

Modifié par ismoketoomuch, 21 septembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[d4eaming]

ismoketoomuch wrote...

A discussion about medieval sword weights and how and why these weapons have been misrepresented in recent history and in the entertainment industry:
http://www.thearma.o...ays/weights.htm

A example of a chinese staff fighting kata (set pattern of moves used to demonstrate competence in techniques). That ready position, sort of a quarter turn with staff at side should be familiar to anyone who played DAII. I also would like to highlight the dynamic tempo (fast, slow, super fast, pause etc.) which you see thruout the kata, which is typical of higher level kata and is meant to be realistic.


Its probably too late, but I hope Bioware develops their fighting animations for DAInq based on motion capture techniques using trained martial artists, including medieval weapons users. If they have to slow things down to look 'realistic', so be it.

I used to collect blades, along with my ex, both swords and daggers. Most were trash, reproductions, unbalanced, with half or rat-tail tangs. The things would fall apart if you hit anything with them. We did get a very nice set of matching sword and dagger from my parents. Fairly certain it was a short sword, and the dagger was about ten inches over all. Light as a feather, with a full tang. Modern people would get tired wielding it until they built up muscle, but they weren't heavy at all.

People think a broadsword or a bastard sword weighed 40 pounds? What is wrong with people?

[Giant ambush beetle]

d4eaming wrote...

People think a broadsword or a bastard sword weighed 40 pounds? What is wrong with people?

Just look at the weapons in the Dragon Age universe, those arm-thick blades and huge mauls would weigh 100 pounds unless they're were made of fiberglass or other lightweight materials.

[MakutaDax]

Vilegrim wrote...

MakutaDax wrote...

Well, just an observation, but DA has never put much stock in realism or credibility when it comes to combat situations. In Origins a Champion could literally knock people off their feet by yelling at them and archers created a sky full of arrows from no where. In DA2 warriors had the tremor talent that, again, knocked people down only this time it was by hitting the ground and causing shock waves. The archers could still create a storm of arrows and if you were a Duelist or Shadow you got access to some totally unrealistic abilities... And I loved every little bit of it!

Having said that, I really don't see how making a few rocks bust up from a crater in the ground should be such a big deal. Well, I take that back, I see how it could be a big deal, but I don't see why. Certainly you can say that the animation is out of place or too flashy/unbelievable, but really, given Inquisition's predecessors, it isn't that far off from what we should all be used to unless you're really just trying to say that you personally were good with the unrealistic combat elements up until they became too much for *you*. That's fine because I know we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game and we have our own levels of tolerance. Me personally, I loved the exploding ground, the Cassandra battering ram, and the harpoon ability. These are things that might get under other people's skin and I respect that, but I'm totally cool with them.

Just my personal thoughts.

I wasn't ok with the shouts, but they where not as mandatory as the harpoon and earth quake are being talked up as, you could be a decent warrior without one, but from the game play vid you cannot be without the harpoon and meteor,

Well, I can't really say much against this because, like you, I can only go by the gameplay demos we've seen. Still, I would say, just from gut instinct, that you could still be a viable warrior without the harpoon or the ground smashing. Sure, it might be harder for you, but isn't that the point of being able to choose your abilities as you level up, to decide what you want your character to be able to do based off your personal taste vs. the game's expectations? Sure you can forego picking up that nifty dodge roll talent and your life might be a bit more difficult, but it is still your choice. Besides, they might have another ability you even want more than that dodge roll, so you're still in the good! I know I've chosen to build my character's a certain way despite it making my in-game life more difficult simply because I preferred this ability to that one, whether it is because of better animations or flavor text, etc.

Of course,  this is assuming that the harpoon is an actual ability, but if I'm not totally misremembering the video it was. So you can go the same route here; sure that harpoon ability might make this or that fight easier for your warrior, but it's not essential (or at least I definitely believe the devs shouldn't make it essential). As for the ground smashing sword swing, wasn't he using a greatsword? So maybe you won't have that same animation with a longsword, hence it being optional as well. I understand that you might want to play a two-handed warrior without dealing with that animation and I totally understand how that might be frustrating, trust me, but that's when it just comes down to how badly you want to play the game as a two-hander. Badly enough to ignore that one animation... Or not?

[Shadow Fox]

The Woldan wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

People think a broadsword or a bastard sword weighed 40 pounds? What is wrong with people?

Just look at the weapons in the Dragon Age universe, those arm-thick blades and huge mauls would weigh [/i][i]100 pounds unless they're were made of fiberglass or other lightweight materials.

And  Hawke can jump on a Harvester...

[Vicious]

Like I said, these characters are all superheroes... if you were expecting ASoIaF/Game of Thrones (like many were after DA:O and Bioware touting the heck out of it as dark fantasy) it's out the window now. 

IMO we've seen the tamer stuff, the moves will only get wackier as more of the game is revealed.

It's not dissappointing if you know what to expect. I used to tell people in the DA:O forums, "watch the next game will have a human only protagonist and use the dialogue wheel." and I was shouted down with comments like, "They already got Mass Effect for that, they won't do it again!" lo and behold...

I digress. But I wouldn't expect anything like the slower combat of DA:O with OMG! moves few and far in between, to ever make an appearance in any more DA:O games.

Modifié par Vicious, 21 septembre 2013 - 06:01 .

[Vilegrim]

MakutaDax wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

MakutaDax wrote...

Well, just an observation, but DA has never put much stock in realism or credibility when it comes to combat situations. In Origins a Champion could literally knock people off their feet by yelling at them and archers created a sky full of arrows from no where. In DA2 warriors had the tremor talent that, again, knocked people down only this time it was by hitting the ground and causing shock waves. The archers could still create a storm of arrows and if you were a Duelist or Shadow you got access to some totally unrealistic abilities... And I loved every little bit of it!

Having said that, I really don't see how making a few rocks bust up from a crater in the ground should be such a big deal. Well, I take that back, I see how it could be a big deal, but I don't see why. Certainly you can say that the animation is out of place or too flashy/unbelievable, but really, given Inquisition's predecessors, it isn't that far off from what we should all be used to unless you're really just trying to say that you personally were good with the unrealistic combat elements up until they became too much for *you*. That's fine because I know we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game and we have our own levels of tolerance. Me personally, I loved the exploding ground, the Cassandra battering ram, and the harpoon ability. These are things that might get under other people's skin and I respect that, but I'm totally cool with them.

Just my personal thoughts.

I wasn't ok with the shouts, but they where not as mandatory as the harpoon and earth quake are being talked up as, you could be a decent warrior without one, but from the game play vid you cannot be without the harpoon and meteor,

Well, I can't really say much against this because, like you, I can only go by the gameplay demos we've seen. Still, I would say, just from gut instinct, that you could still be a viable warrior without the harpoon or the ground smashing. Sure, it might be harder for you, but isn't that the point of being able to choose your abilities as you level up, to decide what you want your character to be able to do based off your personal taste vs. the game's expectations? Sure you can forego picking up that nifty dodge roll talent and your life might be a bit more difficult, but it is still your choice. Besides, they might have another ability you even want more than that dodge roll, so you're still in the good! I know I've chosen to build my character's a certain way despite it making my in-game life more difficult simply because I preferred this ability to that one, whether it is because of better animations or flavor text, etc.

Of course,  this is assuming that the harpoon is an actual ability, but if I'm not totally misremembering the video it was. So you can go the same route here; sure that harpoon ability might make this or that fight easier for your warrior, but it's not essential (or at least I definitely believe the devs shouldn't make it essential). As for the ground smashing sword swing, wasn't he using a greatsword? So maybe you won't have that same animation with a longsword, hence it being optional as well. I understand that you might want to play a two-handed warrior without dealing with that animation and I totally understand how that might be frustrating, trust me, but that's when it just comes down to how badly you want to play the game as a two-hander. Badly enough to ignore that one animation... Or not?

Almost certainly not, and the philosophy it shows worries me, taking skillful and mesmerising real world weapons and making them ground shattering sharp ironing boards.   I love my Hanwei Greatsword, and Longsword, as well as my Mushashi katana and (geek point weapon but still functional and surp[isingly satisfying in hand) Windlass Steel Craft Heron Marked Blade.  To give you the level of sword geek we are talking about here.   I am nowhere near as good as the ARMA or WMA guys you see on youtube mind, just do target cutting and pell work. Some people kick footballs around the park, some people go to the gym, I go into my garden and wage war on old tyres and plastic drinks bottles full of water.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 21 septembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[Shadow Fox]

Vilegrim wrote...



Almost certainly not, and the philosophy it shows worries me, taking skillful and mesmerising real world weapons and making them ground shattering sharp ironing boards.   I love my Hanwei Greatsword, and Longsword, as well as my Mushashi katana and (geek point weapon but still functional and surp[isingly satisfying in hand) Windlass Steel Craft Heron Marked Blade.  To give you the level of sword geek we are talking about here.   I am nowhere near as good as the ARMA or WMA guys you see on youtube mind, just do target cutting and pell work. Some people kick footballs around the park, some people go to the gym, I go into my garden and wage war on old tyres and plastic drinks bottles full of water.

Origins already did that with blades that are as long as the pc is tall and having them function as clubs.
So nothing new there.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 21 septembre 2013 - 06:20 .

[Vilegrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Origins already did that with blades that are as long as the pc is tall and having them function as clubs.
So nothing new there.

It was far less in your face about it, not perfect by any means, and some aspects I simply refused to use, but no where near as bad as the games since.

[Vicious]

Plaintiff wrote...

Dragon Age has never wanted its combat to be "realistic", that's been clear since Origins. I'm incredibly confused as to where people have gotten this other impression.

THANK YOU

[Bleachrude]

While I'm enjoying this debate, small point I'd like to make...

Abilities != tone of subject matter.

Demon and Dark souls are definitely considered proper entries in the dark fantasy genre and both of them you have people wielding oversized weapons and not realistic combat manoeuvers.

Similarly, BERSERK is a great dark fantasy manga and the protagonist wields a sword that makes Fenris sword look like a tooth pick.

Conversely, people would look at you strangely if you put LotR in the dark fantasy section. and that has "realistic" combatants.

[Shadow Fox]

Vilegrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Origins already did that with blades that are as long as the pc is tall and having them function as clubs.
So nothing new there.

It was far less in your face about it, not perfect by any means, and some aspects I simply refused to use, but no where near as bad as the games since.

Not really if you played a Dwarf 2 hander that was just awkward and having all melee weapons function exactly the same was also somewhat wtf inducing as well.

[Shadow Fox]

Filament wrote...

 I would also hope blades are more 'realistically' sized than they ever were in Dragon Age, sure. 

There's really no need for any more Hayder's Razors.

*Shrugs* We'll just have to agree to disagree.