721 réponses à ce sujet

[KristinCousland]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

And Gandalf fighting the balrog literally while falling. But I guess that's "a wizard thing."

Gandalf isn't human (he's an angel). And neither isth e Balrog.

Also, there were loads of unrealistic melee and ranged fighting in the movies. Didn't Legolas run up a frigging giant elephant? And surf on a shield?

Hell yeah, I wanna shield surf in DAI, make it happen Bioware!

There was both laughing and rage at those scenes. Never liked them.

But it is the nature of forums for people to nitpick incessantly and complelety miss the aspect/point of comparison.

Last I recall I was comparing ARAGORNS swordfighting with DA2/I. did I mention Legolas? Nope. He is irrelevant to my point. I dont' care if he was in the same movie. I'm comparing a specific movie aspect, not every single scene from a movie.

To be fair I mentioned Legolas.  As in Peter Jackson went awfully close to breaking the line with him.

But, he kept it to three crazy moments per movie, and all movents could sort of be plausible if Legolas was a 1000 year old experienced super rogue. 

Wich he was.

Sorry people, just came from a party 

[KristinCousland]

Ukki wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ukki wrote...
DA2 had pole dancer mages

Okay, people need to stop making this terrible, awful analogy.

Have the people who say this ever seen pole dancing? It is literally the absolute opposite of what the mages in DA2 do.

yea, they where Majorettes which is soooo much better....

It beats poking at the air like it's a dead animal.

neither worked particularly well in all honesty.

Main point would be that mages are supposed to work magic with willpower. Willpower require concetration, not dancing around like one would be working in circus.

Ukki I agree about that.

A mage really consentration before bringing up death and destrution would be a lot more powerful 

[Rawgrim]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to know if the combat disparity that was everpresent in DAII has been addressed.

*has not been very up-to-date on DAI news*

www.youtube.com/watch

That is up to you to decide.

I've watched it before, but if you ask me it seems like they haven't addressed it (based on that short demo). Course, it's hard to tell because the camera -- both the filmer and the in-game camera -- shifts very often.

I'm just afraid that it's going to be a repeat of DAII's demo, where Mike Laidlaw talked about how it could be tactical still but come game-time DAII was little more then a button mashing fest.

Here, it looks like the same thing. The characters we control use a vastly different assortment of animations and abilities that are, for some arbitrary and god-awful reason, not given to the enemies.

Kind of feels like a staged fight. I am given an uzi, my opponents are given clubs.

[Ieolus]

Just re-watched the video from the OP, and almost as jarring as the conjured stones from the ground is how fast the two-handed swords swings are and that they just go right through a shield. The shield doesn't stop a swing at all? I guess that is abstracted, but graphically it is jarring.

[Rawgrim]

KristinCousland wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

And Gandalf fighting the balrog literally while falling. But I guess that's "a wizard thing."

Gandalf isn't human (he's an angel). And neither isth e Balrog.

Also, there were loads of unrealistic melee and ranged fighting in the movies. Didn't Legolas run up a frigging giant elephant? And surf on a shield?

Hell yeah, I wanna shield surf in DAI, make it happen Bioware!

There was both laughing and rage at those scenes. Never liked them.

But it is the nature of forums for people to nitpick incessantly and complelety miss the aspect/point of comparison.

Last I recall I was comparing ARAGORNS swordfighting with DA2/I. did I mention Legolas? Nope. He is irrelevant to my point. I dont' care if he was in the same movie. I'm comparing a specific movie aspect, not every single scene from a movie.

To be fair I mentioned Legolas.  As in Peter Jackson went awfully close to breaking the line with him.

But, he kept it to three crazy moments per movie, and all movents could sort of be plausible if Legolas was a 1000 year old experienced super rogue. 

Wich he was.

Sorry people, just came from a party 

He wasn`t a super rogue in the books. Jackson just went Michael Bay with Legolas.

[KristinCousland]

Vilegrim wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DarthSideus2 wrote...
If I remember correctly, Aragon held off all 9 Ring Wraiths in a fight to save Frodo in the first movie. That was a little hard to swallow.

IIRC, there were 7 of them there.
And he isn't a normal human to begin with.
And he set them on fire and didn't use any super-moves.
Not exactly the best scene, but still....

So what you're saying is that for a human to do mundane things like fight 7 opponents at once and live, they have to be a supernatural being with abilities far above the average human? Because that's what we're saying about what every NPC in DA:O had to be like to do any of the ingame feats we see. 

The Wring Wraiths are far beyond being 'opponents' they are immortal killing machines empowered by a dark god, slightly different things. (In the book btw he had the shards of narsil, well about 2 ft of the blade for this purpose, and it terrified the Wratihs who remebered it well)

btw if people do not understand how Aragorn could help chase of nazgul.  

Go check your nerdhat back into the locker.

[Ieolus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to know if the combat disparity that was everpresent in DAII has been addressed.

*has not been very up-to-date on DAI news*

www.youtube.com/watch

That is up to you to decide.

I've watched it before, but if you ask me it seems like they haven't addressed it (based on that short demo). Course, it's hard to tell because the camera -- both the filmer and the in-game camera -- shifts very often. And there's very little combat with other people.

I'm just afraid that it's going to be a repeat of DAII's demo, where Mike Laidlaw talked about how it could be tactical still but come game-time DAII was little more then a button mashing fest. DAII had no challenge at all (neither did DAO, but that's another matter).

Here, it looks like the same thing. The characters we control use a vastly different assortment of animations and abilities that are, for some arbitrary and god-awful reason, not given to the enemies.

I agree with you.  Watch the video from the OP as well.  www.youtube.com/watch

[Rawgrim]

Ieolus wrote...

Just re-watched the video from the OP, and almost as jarring as the conjured stones from the ground is how fast the two-handed swords swings are and that they just go right through a shield. The shield doesn't stop a swing at all? I guess that is abstracted, but graphically it is jarring.

Given that you can smash stone with the sword, it actually makes sense that shields won`t protect anyone from it.

[KristinCousland]

In Exile wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...
The Wring Wraiths are far beyond being 'opponents' they are immortal killing machines empowered by a dark god, slightly different things. (In the book btw he had the shards of narsil, well about 2 ft of the blade for this purpose, and it terrified the Wratihs who remebered it well)

And these immortal killing machines are so terrifying that... Aragon beat 7 of them with a broken sword. Yes, Narsil is apparently magic. So magical that immortal killing machines run away from it in fear. Really pilling on that realism. 

See the post above 

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Just because DA:O had some pretty wierd combat elements, doesn`t mean it invalidates all arguments towards the next games taking the step 10 further and going even further out there with the combat. The issue is when the combat movements starts to really interfere with the setting and the lore.

And when do they start to "really" interfere, if Origins didn't already succed in that manner?

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

No, their role definitely seems different. That doesn't mean they both can't swing a sword (or dagger) the same way though does it?

They should have different abilities that help them in their role on the battlefield.

If the rogue was a warrior who simply added stealth to his/her arsenal, sure. But a rogue who TRAINED as a rogue, that should have a distinct difference in terms of how the class operates and fights.

I am sorry for quoting myself, but I guess I am saying that the Rogue should at least "feel" different than a warrior, like having the attacks flow into each other more or something.

Modifié par draken-heart, 22 septembre 2013 - 04:59 .

[KristinCousland]

In Exile wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...
YES IT WAS MAGICAL, what exactly is your point?  He didn't make the ground explode while angels shot laser beams and a full disco went off as elven pole dancer scrolled across the screen, as apparently you want, it was a magic sword, it cut well and could kill things mortal weapons couldn't in the hands of Isildurs heir, that's pretty much as far as it went.  Acceptable breaks from reality.  Look it up.

So it's realistic for these immortal killing machines to... ****** themselves in fear at the sight of a magic sword? 

These immortal killing machines, threatening warriors... being afraid of a thing that can kill them? The thing that every single soldier faces in every single fight? That's what they ran away from? And you're telling me this is realistic?

See the post above.

And as an added note. Please never ever talk about things you have no idea bout. 

[Ieolus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

Just re-watched the video from the OP, and almost as jarring as the conjured stones from the ground is how fast the two-handed swords swings are and that they just go right through a shield. The shield doesn't stop a swing at all? I guess that is abstracted, but graphically it is jarring.

Given that you can smash stone with the sword, it actually makes sense that shields won`t protect anyone from it.

But they do protect the shield user, behind the scenes.  It just doesn't look like it because the sword goes right through.  You can chalk that up to alpha-build and sword hitting shield animations not being in-game yet I guess.. or, fast sword swings because 'cool'.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Just because DA:O had some pretty wierd combat elements, doesn`t mean it invalidates all arguments towards the next games taking the step 10 further and going even further out there with the combat. The issue is when the combat movements starts to really interfere with the setting and the lore.

And when do they start to "really" interfere, if Origins didn't already succed in that manner?

When swords can smash stones, and shields can smash castle gates with two jabs, its way more out there than some bear showing up in the deep roads. It completely removes the point of castles, catapults, and whatever else people hide behind to feel safe. That makes it way more implausable than an animal showing up. That can, if one wants, be explained by the bear having followed you from a distance. Not that I do that, I don`t use summons because it looks, as you say, silly.

[Ieolus]

draken-heart wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

No, their role definitely seems different. That doesn't mean they both can't swing a sword (or dagger) the same way though does it?

They should have different abilities that help them in their role on the battlefield.

If the rogue was a warrior who simply added stealth to his/her arsenal, sure. But a rogue who TRAINED as a rogue, that should have a distinct difference in terms of how the class operates and fights.

I am sorry for quoting myself, but I guess I am saying that the Rogue should at least "feel" different than a warrior, like having the attacks flow into each other more or something.

I do not disagree.  It would make no sense to have a different character class if he/she does not play differently than another class.

[KristinCousland]

Vilegrim wrote...

KristinCousland wrote...

ismoketoomuch wrote...

A discussion about medieval sword weights and how and why these weapons have been misrepresented in recent history and in the entertainment industry:
http://www.thearma.o...ays/weights.htm

A example of a chinese staff fighting kata (set pattern of moves used to demonstrate competence in techniques). That ready position, sort of a quarter turn with staff at side should be familiar to anyone who played DAII. I also would like to highlight the dynamic tempo (fast, slow, super fast, pause etc.) which you see thruout the kata, which is typical of higher level kata and is meant to be realistic.


Its probably too late, but I hope Bioware develops their fighting animations for DAInq based on motion capture techniques using trained martial artists, including medieval weapons users. If they have to slow things down to look 'realistic', so be it.

Do not be too smart. This has been covered. Most well educated members of bsn know what a claymore looks like, and they also know what an oversized two hander looks like. Please do not think the two are the same.

Besides Bioware is getting the two handed combat right for once.  The alpha combat looks awesome.

If you think 2h swords are weilded like baseball bats and can blast the ground apart......

btw Vilegrim, I have handled a two handed sword.  You can swing it trust me.

What you cannot do is to conjur up rocks.:innocent:

And yeah, a real life two handed swords handles a bit like a baseball bat.

[TEWR]

Rawgrim wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to know if the combat disparity that was everpresent in DAII has been addressed.

*has not been very up-to-date on DAI news*

www.youtube.com/watch

That is up to you to decide.

I've watched it before, but if you ask me it seems like they haven't addressed it (based on that short demo). Course, it's hard to tell because the camera -- both the filmer and the in-game camera -- shifts very often.

I'm just afraid that it's going to be a repeat of DAII's demo, where Mike Laidlaw talked about how it could be tactical still but come game-time DAII was little more then a button mashing fest.

Here, it looks like the same thing. The characters we control use a vastly different assortment of animations and abilities that are, for some arbitrary and god-awful reason, not given to the enemies.

Kind of feels like a staged fight. I am given an uzi, my opponents are given clubs.

As apt a comparison as any.

Just with that one demo alone, it almost feels like badassery is trying to be imposed on the player and the party while rendering everyone else in the world as incapable and incompetent boobs. Which, sure, I'll feel like a badass.

But I won't enjoy it as much as I could've, because of how it's done.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Just because DA:O had some pretty wierd combat elements, doesn`t mean it invalidates all arguments towards the next games taking the step 10 further and going even further out there with the combat. The issue is when the combat movements starts to really interfere with the setting and the lore.

So combat slowing to a crawl was fine yet speeding it up is game breaking?Having massive weapons and armor and superhuman feats in Origins was fine yet in DA2 suddenly is an issue?

[Flurdt Vash]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Third pointless entry in a row

If we include your posts would we be up to 6?

BWAHAHAHAAH

[Rawgrim]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to know if the combat disparity that was everpresent in DAII has been addressed.

*has not been very up-to-date on DAI news*

www.youtube.com/watch

That is up to you to decide.

I've watched it before, but if you ask me it seems like they haven't addressed it (based on that short demo). Course, it's hard to tell because the camera -- both the filmer and the in-game camera -- shifts very often.

I'm just afraid that it's going to be a repeat of DAII's demo, where Mike Laidlaw talked about how it could be tactical still but come game-time DAII was little more then a button mashing fest.

Here, it looks like the same thing. The characters we control use a vastly different assortment of animations and abilities that are, for some arbitrary and god-awful reason, not given to the enemies.

Kind of feels like a staged fight. I am given an uzi, my opponents are given clubs.

As apt a comparison as any.

Just with that one demo alone, it almost feels like badassery is trying to be imposed on the player and the party while rendering everyone else in the world as incapable and incompetent boobs. Which, sure, I'll feel like a badass.

But I won't enjoy it as much as I could've, because of how it's done.

I preffer to earn the badassery, though. By leveling up and whatsnot. Not having it given to me by default, and have it excluded from all my enemies.

[draken-heart]

Ieolus wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

No, their role definitely seems different. That doesn't mean they both can't swing a sword (or dagger) the same way though does it?

They should have different abilities that help them in their role on the battlefield.

If the rogue was a warrior who simply added stealth to his/her arsenal, sure. But a rogue who TRAINED as a rogue, that should have a distinct difference in terms of how the class operates and fights.

I am sorry for quoting myself, but I guess I am saying that the Rogue should at least "feel" different than a warrior, like having the attacks flow into each other more or something.

I do not disagree.  It would make no sense to have a different character class if he/she does not play differently than another class.

But, you said they should swing the same, which is wrong because the rogue would actually be more fluid with his/her attacks and warrior would be more brutal/just for effect.

[Ieolus]

KristinCousland wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

KristinCousland wrote...

ismoketoomuch wrote...

A discussion about medieval sword weights and how and why these weapons have been misrepresented in recent history and in the entertainment industry:
http://www.thearma.o...ays/weights.htm

A example of a chinese staff fighting kata (set pattern of moves used to demonstrate competence in techniques). That ready position, sort of a quarter turn with staff at side should be familiar to anyone who played DAII. I also would like to highlight the dynamic tempo (fast, slow, super fast, pause etc.) which you see thruout the kata, which is typical of higher level kata and is meant to be realistic.


Its probably too late, but I hope Bioware develops their fighting animations for DAInq based on motion capture techniques using trained martial artists, including medieval weapons users. If they have to slow things down to look 'realistic', so be it.

Do not be too smart. This has been covered. Most well educated members of bsn know what a claymore looks like, and they also know what an oversized two hander looks like. Please do not think the two are the same.

Besides Bioware is getting the two handed combat right for once.  The alpha combat looks awesome.

If you think 2h swords are weilded like baseball bats and can blast the ground apart......

btw Vilegrim, I have handled a two handed sword.  You can swing it trust me.

What you cannot do is to conjur up rocks.:innocent:

And yeah, a real life two handed swords handles a bit like a baseball bat.

Forget real life... I just don't understand why the two-handed sword has to be both EXTRA large and swing EXTREMELY fast.  Why both exagerations?  Maybe that is why it looks so damn silly.  Are you listening Allan?

[Realmzmaster]

I do not believe Plantiff is trying to invalidate anything. Plaintiff is pointing out the silliness began with DAO. In fact a certain amount of silliness appears in all crpgs. DAO had Scattershot, Shattering shot, Sunder arms, Sunder armor, Destroyer, Feast of the Fallen, War Cry (with Superiority), Ranger Summons, Frightening appearance etc. I will not even get started with the Awakening expansion and it upping the silliness scale.

So when someone says dial the silliness back to what the original silliness level or to the level of silliness a particular poster wants or does not want?

So Bioware is suppose to ignore the gamers who have no problem with the pre-alpha footage combat animations and change it to satisfy those who did not like it?

If that is the case I prefer the combat system to be more like Mount & Blade, or the multiplayer games Chivalry and War of the Roses..

[KristinCousland]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Third pointless entry in a row

If we include your posts would we be up to 6?

Maybe seven 

But, come on Alan. 

The mass effect endings were a fiasco.

Now some fans are airing their views.  To avoid anything like that happening again.

As I said, you were super cool in that discussion. Perhaps this hits to close to home?

Anyhow I love what you are doing.   I will preorder even with the boulder stuff.  

For any gaming company I will always trust you on story, AND I think the combat looks awesome so far 

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Just because DA:O had some pretty wierd combat elements, doesn`t mean it invalidates all arguments towards the next games taking the step 10 further and going even further out there with the combat. The issue is when the combat movements starts to really interfere with the setting and the lore.

So combat slowing to a crawl was fine yet speeding it up is game breaking?Having massive weapons and armor and superhuman feats in Origins was fine yet in DA2 suddenly is an issue?

Speeding it up isn`t the issue. Giving me unlimited smoke bombs, teleportation, being able to summon rocks by smashing my sword to the ground, knocking down castle gates with my shield. Thats whats way out there.

DA combat has allways been abit silly. I agree with that completely. That doesn`t mean they should add to the silliness, and take it ten steps further with each game.