721 réponses à ce sujet

[KristinCousland]

Thi mmakes me so sad.

I know what realism look like.

Alllan I lost all respect for you.

I have seen a head being cut off.

I have seen that in reallife, , and you acrtike you do

[KristinCousland]

[quote]KristinCousland wrote...

This makes me so sad.

I know what realism look like.

Alllan I lost all respect for you.

I have seen a head being cut off.

I have seen that in reallife, , and you act like you do

[Nerdage]

The rock effect from the sword attack was the same one that happened with the mage AoE thing, wasn't it? I was hoping it's just placeholder, it looked pretty bizarre in both cases but especially from a sword attack.

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

And the bolded and underlined point is exactly the issue. There "must be" concessions? You mean, we have to draw a completely arbitrary line in the sand to justify certain completely unrealistic mechanics as just being part of the genre, and if you have a problem with it, too bad?

There must be. And it isn't arbitrary.
The line consists of making the game playable and giving the player situational awareness and abiltiy to influence the battle.
1) the player has to know the battle is going badly, or that a certain party mebmer is in trouble so he can react
2) the player has to be able to do something and need time ot do something

1-hit kill attacks generally disallow both of those things in a party-based games.

For an action game with only 1 character? Sure. I loved Operation Flashpoint, and there 1 bullet is usually enough to kill you.
But in a party-based fantasy RPG that is... unadvisable. So you either need to buff HP's so that EVERYONE is more durable (abstraction) or find some other mechanic. It is possible to find some other mechanic, but in it's absence, characters having more endurance than humanly possible is acceptable.

Or how about we have the first few cuts in a battle field get infected while the NPCs are rolling around in mud and who knows what else, with a whole amputation mini-game?

How about we just assume the party knows basic first aid and bandage themselves after battle?

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

Abstraction is one of those things that's subjective. I can accept Battery-Ram Cassandra is an abstraction for an actual battering ram, or (the other option mentioned re: PAX) Varric using Bianca to scale up the wall is an abstraction for a series of troops scaling the walls with ladders. But as this thread indicates, not everyone can.

Just like how for you and others, the damage thing is an OK abstraction, and it just kind of drives me bonkers if I think obut it.

Not really.
Abstraction serves a purpose. You abstract things you must... because of simplicity, resources or whatever. You don't abstract without reason.
There is no reason to "abstract" Cassandra as a battering ram, when abattering ram isperfectly viable, both in-engine and in the lore. Same with the trooops and ladders.
You are just comping up with (extreemly) lame excuses to justify stupid things.


Again, things must serve a purpose. I tried playing a modded DA:O with 1-hit kills. It's unplayable. Enchanced endurance/health is something you MUST accept (at least untill a better mechanics is introduced) because otherwise there is no game.

ACCEPTABLE breaks from Reality.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

They were already pointless. You can paralyse everyone inside by singing real loud. Defenses are worthless with nobody able to operate them.

Well, if you want to nitpick...
All those abilities/spells have a limited range/radius and oyu cannto start a firestorm inside a room when your'e outside.

So, everyone in any kind of structure (anda castle is full of them, including towers on the walls) or outside the (limited) radius would be unharmed.

[Lotion Soronarr]

thats1evildude wrote...
My point is that conventional sieges are pretty boring, and actual warfare is not conducive to the single-player action RPG experience.

Sez who?

[In Exile]

Vilegrim wrote...
2) To much to ask, how has 'realistic weapon animations' turned in your head into 'completly redo everything ever?' You keep hammering this strawman , but it isn't what I have seen people ask for  

Parrying isn't part of realistic animations? Rolling when on fire isn't part of realistic animations? A maul being handled differently than a greatsword isn't part of realistic animations? 

Apparently not, according to you.

3)Then why have anim ations at all? In a way I would prefer nothing over what is being offered, make it a top down old school rpg with no combat animations at all would mess my immersion far less than this abomination

You mean, this is all subjective? No, that would be silly. 

[In Exile]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Well, if you want to nitpick...
All those abilities/spells have a limited range/radius and oyu cannto start a firestorm inside a room when your'e outside

Yes you can. You don't even need the door open. 

[Ieolus]

In Exile wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Well, if you want to nitpick...
All those abilities/spells have a limited range/radius and oyu cannto start a firestorm inside a room when your'e outside

Yes you can. You don't even need the door open. 

He means you need to be inside before you can cast through a wall... try casting into Redcliffe castle while in the courtyard, you cannot.

[In Exile]

Ieolus wrote...
He means you need to be inside before you can cast through a wall... try casting into Redcliffe castle while in the courtyard, you cannot.

Are we seriously going to say that the fact that DA:O was modular is an actual limit on what people can do? 

Because people in DA:O also travelled across regions as a bloodstain on a map, but no one is going to suggest to me that without blood and maps travel was impossible, right?

[Ieolus]

In Exile wrote...

Ieolus wrote...
He means you need to be inside before you can cast through a wall... try casting into Redcliffe castle while in the courtyard, you cannot.

Are we seriously going to say that the fact that DA:O was modular is an actual limit on what people can do? 

Because people in DA:O also travelled across regions as a bloodstain on a map, but no one is going to suggest to me that without blood and maps travel was impossible, right?

I'm just telling you what he meant.  And his point is that magic has a very limited range, as does the spell effects.

Also, about this silly notion that mages invalidate any form of siege warfare... both sides could have mages.

[Ieolus]

"Because we are going for a more realistic feel" - Whoever was leading the PAX video presentation.

By definition and lore, in Thedas (hence in-game) warriors and rogues are mundanes. They will not be as powerful, ever, as mages... if you define powerful as being able to conjure storms of the century and blah blah blah. This isn't subjective and violating it w/o giving a specific magical explanation for it (Reavers abilities for example) hurts the game.

You aren't 'gimping' your favorite class because one can do extraordinary things and yours can't. You don't need to have flashy and over-the-top animations for combat to be fun and interactive. The goal is for each class to be fun to play, is it not? Hopefully, as said upthread, for each class to play differently so there are reasons for your choice.

I don't think it is too much to ask BioWare to keep this all in mind. You know, because they are going for a more realistic feel and all.

[In Exile]

Ieolus wrote...
I'm just telling you what he meant.  And his point is that magic has a very limited range, as does the spell effects.

One has to wonder how the tevinter mages got inside Arlathan to bury the whole thing alive then. That would suggest that gameplay contrivances in DA:O don't correspond to lore, but... again, that's apparently impossible. 

[Ieolus]

In Exile wrote...

Ieolus wrote...
I'm just telling you what he meant.  And his point is that magic has a very limited range, as does the spell effects.

One has to wonder how the tevinter mages got inside Arlathan to bury the whole thing alive then. That would suggest that gameplay contrivances in DA:O don't correspond to lore, but... again, that's apparently impossible. 

Yes, one does have to wonder... dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Arlathan:_Part_Two

"The human world was changing even as the elves slept. Clans and tribes gave way to a powerful empire called Tevinter, which--and for what reason we do not know--moved to conquer Elvhenan. When they breached the great city of Arlathan, our people, fearful of disease and loss of immortality, chose to flee rather than fight. With magic, demons, and even dragons at their behest, the Tevinter Imperium marched easily through Arlathan, destroying homes and galleries and amphitheaters that had stood for ages."

How they breached it?  It does not say.  Maybe they had a superhero with a golden shield at their fore?

[giveamanafish...]

Going back to the two-handed swords. People might want to be more conscious of how their perceptions of what is realistic and acceptable are affected by their attitudes.

I finally had a look at the PAX gameplay preview .and from what I can make out the two-handed sword shown has the same general dimensions as the ones used in DAII. I specifically compared Carver's "Grace-maker" and the "Burnished Greatsword" which are available in the Legacy DLC. "Grace-maker" is a over-sized weapon, mostly in terms of the width of the blade and length of the hilt, compared to the pictures I have seen of actual two-handers and looks tp be very close to the dimensions of the 2-hander shown in the Pax demo. (Even so, I can't see the weight of "Grace-maker" being much more than 8-10 lbs, using the 6 lb weight of a heavy claymore as a basis of comparision).

People who didn't enjoy DAII complained about how unrealistically large the 2-handers were in that game but haven't as far as I know haven't complained about what looks to be the same type of sword in DAI.

Off-topic: So Cassandra knocks down a castle gate with her shield? I have already issued a warning to my in game characters not to romance that woman -- serious anger management issues -- sticking daggers in perfectly pleasant looking picture books and in what looks to be someone's prize oak or mahogany dinner table ( the one with maps strewn across it in an earlier preview of DAI). Now she knocks down a gate that someone probably put a lot of effort and expense into? What, couldn't ring the doorbell? Romance with the possibility of dismemberment or decapitation -- one wrong move or word. Not for me or any of my characters.

Modifié par ismoketoomuch, 22 septembre 2013 - 05:32 .

[giveamanafish...]

Ieolus wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Ieolus wrote...
I'm just telling you what he meant.  And his point is that magic has a very limited range, as does the spell effects.

One has to wonder how the tevinter mages got inside Arlathan to bury the whole thing alive then. That would suggest that gameplay contrivances in DA:O don't correspond to lore, but... again, that's apparently impossible. 

Yes, one does have to wonder... dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Arlathan:_Part_Two

"The human world was changing even as the elves slept. Clans and tribes gave way to a powerful empire called Tevinter, which--and for what reason we do not know--moved to conquer Elvhenan. When they breached the great city of Arlathan, our people, fearful of disease and loss of immortality, chose to flee rather than fight. With magic, demons, and even dragons at their behest, the Tevinter Imperium marched easily through Arlathan, destroying homes and galleries and amphitheaters that had stood for ages."

How they breached it?  It does not say.  Maybe they had a superhero with a golden shield at their fore?

Geez. Blood magic. The blood of thousands of murdered slaves wasn't it?

[Plaintiff]

ismoketoomuch wrote...

Going back to the two-handed swords. People might want to be more conscious of how their perceptions of what is realistic and acceptable are affected by their attitudes.

I finally had a look at the PAX gameplay preview .and from what I can make out the two-handed sword shown has the same general dimensions as the ones used in DAII. I specifically compared Carver's "Grace-maker" and the "Burnished Greatsword" which are available in the Legacy DLC. "Grace-maker" is a over-sized weapon, mostly in terms of the width of the blade and length of the hilt, compared to the pictures I have seen of actual two-handers and looks tp be very close to the dimensions of the 2-hander shown in the Pax demo. (Even so, I can't see the weight of "Grace-maker" being much more than 8-10 lbs, using the 6 lb weight of a heavy claymore as a basis of comparision).

People who didn't enjoy DAII complained about how unrealistically large the 2-handers were in that game but haven't as far as I know haven't complained about what looks to be the same type of sword in DAI.

Off-topic: So Cassandra knocks down a castle gate with her shield? I have already issued a warning to my in game characters not to romance that woman -- serious anger management issues -- sticking daggers in perfectly pleasant looking picture books and in what looks to be someone's prize oak or mahogany dinner table ( the one with maps strewn across it in an earlier preview of DAI). Now she knocks down a gate that someone probably put a lot of effort and expense into? What, couldn't ring the doorbell? Romance with the possibility of dismemberment or decapitation -- one wrong move or word. Not for me or any of my characters.

If Cassandra gets bored during sex, she just straight-up eats your face, praying mantis style.

[giveamanafish...]

Plaintiff wrote...

smoketoomuch wrote...
snip
If Cassandra gets bored during sex, she just straight-up eats your face, praying mantis style.

Not my face I'm worried about.

[Vilegrim]

In Exile wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...
2) To much to ask, how has 'realistic weapon animations' turned in your head into 'completly redo everything ever?' You keep hammering this strawman , but it isn't what I have seen people ask for  

Parrying isn't part of realistic animations? Rolling when on fire isn't part of realistic animations? A maul being handled differently than a greatsword isn't part of realistic animations? 

Apparently not, according to you.

3)Then why have anim ations at all? In a way I would prefer nothing over what is being offered, make it a top down old school rpg with no combat animations at all would mess my immersion far less than this abomination

2)You mean, this is all subjective? No, that would be silly. 

1.) yes it would be, if possible with the time and resources allowed, which could be far better spent than being wasted on the fireworks and nuclear detonations we are getting now.


2.) is is partially subjective yes, everything is. What colour something is is subjective, morallity is subjective, very few things aren't, those things are scientific laws, every thing else is.  

You for instance seem to have made the subjective decision that anyone who wants more realism isn't a true fan, only worthy of dehumanisation and scorn, while you your self are unchallegable and perfect and yours is the only opinion with any value.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 22 septembre 2013 - 06:22 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Vilegrim wrote...
You for instance seem to have made the subjective decision that anyone who wants more realism isn't a true fan, only worthy of dehumanisation and scorn, while you your self are unchallegable and perfect and yours is the only opinion with any value.

Setting new records in strawmen.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm closing this thread now because the hyperbole is literally frustrating to read at this point.


Note, I consider it an undermining of one's argument if you feel the best way to get your point across is to constantly use hyperbole to illustrate it. And it's happening by supporters on both sides.