721 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Like Mages do?

[KristinCousland]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DAO wasn't realistic at all and contrary to popular belief two-handers weren't that heavy.

I know, and I think the gameplay footage shows that they are getting two-handers right.

Too cumbersome in origins, too "light" in DA2.  From the gameplay footage it feels right.

Do not get me wrong.  I love pretty much everything released about this game so far, including the combat.

That is why the boulders became so noticable.  

They looked out of place.

[KristinCousland]

SleepySomnus wrote...

My goodness people, they seem to be listening to us on some of the larger issues, I'm not too worried about some craters. Be happy for once!

I am very happy, and will almost certainly preorder this game even with some weird boulder conjuring sword stroke.

I am also very happy that Bioware is one of the few major studios that even listens to their fans, so I wanted to air my
views  

[Taura-Tierno]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Warriors in fantasy settings managing feats of great, superhuman strength and prowess is hardly unheard of. Like Rogues tend to pull of extraordinary feats of agility, stealth and pure luck. 

[KristinCousland]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Warriors in fantasy settings managing feats of great, superhuman strength and prowess is hardly unheard of. Like Rogues tend to pull of extraordinary feats of agility, stealth and pure luck. 

That is what I meant about Legolas shield surfing.  Not very realistic perhaps, but pretty cool and I guess somewhat plausible.  Same with the Legolas Oliphant takedown.  Rogue skills taken to the extreme, almost superhuman, but it didn't cross the line.

The boulders crossed that line by a fair distance.

Just ruins an otherwise really cool combat sequence.

The warrior might be extremly strong, but I expect the stony floor to have normal properties. 

Unless this fight takes place in the fade or something.

Modifié par KristinCousland, 18 septembre 2013 - 07:40 .

[Shadow Fox]

KristinCousland wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DAO wasn't realistic at all and contrary to popular belief two-handers weren't that heavy.

I know, and I think the gameplay footage shows that they are getting two-handers right.

Too cumbersome in origins, too "light" in DA2.  From the gameplay footage it feels right.

Do not get me wrong.  I love pretty much everything released about this game so far, including the combat.

That is why the boulders became so noticable.  

They looked out of place.

Oh I wasn't singling you out I just know  that someone here has said DAO was more realistic and that 2handers are supposed to be unwieldly.<_<

[KristinCousland]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

KristinCousland wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DAO wasn't realistic at all and contrary to popular belief two-handers weren't that heavy.

I know, and I think the gameplay footage shows that they are getting two-handers right.

Too cumbersome in origins, too "light" in DA2.  From the gameplay footage it feels right.

Do not get me wrong.  I love pretty much everything released about this game so far, including the combat.

That is why the boulders became so noticable.  

They looked out of place.

Oh I wasn't singling you out I just know  that someone here has said DAO was more realistic and that 2handers are supposed to be unwieldly.<_<

Part of the problem in DA2 was that the two handers were way way way larger than any two handers I know of in real history.  You can swing a normal two hander fairly nimbly.  But, not a sword that seems to have the same mass as the female protagonist. 

[BioWareM0d13]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Like Mages do?

Mages have an explanation in the lore as to why they're capable of superhuman powers. Warriors, at least until DA:I, were just some normal guys or gals swinging a sword or axe. They might be extremely skilled with those weapons, but they weren't superhuman.

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Warriors in fantasy settings managing feats of great, superhuman strength and prowess is hardly unheard of. Like Rogues tend to pull of extraordinary feats of agility, stealth and pure luck. 

Sure, if it is Lord of the Rings. And the PC is Aragorn with the blood of Numenoreans pumping through his veins. The DA series was a bit more like ASoIaF than LotR however, and the heroes a lot less mythical.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 septembre 2013 - 07:58 .

[Shadow Fox]

I dunno man that Taint is wacky and Hawke has magic in his/her blood.

Then there's stuff like Reavers,Beserkers,Spirit Warriors,Assassins and Duelists.

[KristinCousland]

Han,

To be fair to Tolkien, he was extremtly obsessed by having the setting where the fantasy took place in being real - obeying the real law of physics. I was actually thinking about Tolkien when I made this thread. To me it is still the gold standard in creating a secondary fantastic created reality.

That is one thing ASoiAF is also getting right. Well, if you are copying the master you are bound to get more things right than wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Aragorn never crates a crater with his sword, nor does he do anything else superhuman in the physical sense.

Neither does Legolas except running atop of snow.  The superhuman feats of Legolas were inventions of Peter Jackson.  

Inventions I were cool with for movie making and dramatic purposes.

But, Mr. Jackson stepped awefully close to the line with the Legolas heroics in all three movies.

He stayed on the right side though (imho), and noticably kept those crazy moments to one per movie.

Modifié par KristinCousland, 18 septembre 2013 - 08:07 .

[Taura-Tierno]

Han Shot First wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Like Mages do?

Mages have an explanation in the lore as to why they're capable of superhuman powers. Warriors, at least until DA:I, were just some normal guys or gals swinging a sword or axe. They might be extremely skilled with those weapons, but they weren't superhuman.

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm not looking for hyper-realism. Just something that's not over-the-top ridiculous.

If the game ships with warriors having these silly abilities, I hope at least there is some kind of lore explanation. At that point you've turned the warrior PC into Superman or the Incredible Hulk, and might as well also have him shooting lightning bolts from his eyes and fireballs from his arse.

Warriors in fantasy settings managing feats of great, superhuman strength and prowess is hardly unheard of. Like Rogues tend to pull of extraordinary feats of agility, stealth and pure luck. 

Sure, if it is Lord of the Rings. And the PC is Aragorn with the blood of Numenoreans pumping through his veins. The DA series was a bit more like ASoIaF than LotR however, and the heroes a lot less mythical.

No they aren't. Spirit warriors, reavers, being a Grey Warden, having magic in your blood, templar powers ... those are all very much supernatural warrior things. Not to mention that you've got magical armor, magical weapons, etc. 

[Das Tentakel]

It’s a question of ‘tone’. DA consistently tries to combine ‘real’ things (politics, intrigue, warfare, understandable human motivations, some realistic-ish looking visuals etc.) with over the top, ‘cool’ stuff that is derived from D&D, comics and MMO’s.
These are things that often clash with each other, making DA a somewhat schizophrenic franchise. They certainly don’t reinforce each other.
Other fantasy games have something of this schizophrenia as well, though DA isn’t as bad as WoW, which takes place in a setting filled with war and genocide, yet also has funny goblin businessmen wearing tuxedos, not to mention occasionally headache-inducing colour schemes…

Maintaining a ‘serious’ tone doesn’t require pure realism. That’s not advisable anyway, as Realism 1.0 mostly consists of eating, defecating, working, paying taxes, an often sizeable amount of physical and/or mental suffering and then dying, sometimes slowly and painfully. It’s always a compromise of sorts; too much silly and you totally destroy any mood you’re trying to convey; too much serious and things might get so bleak that you enter niche territory (as in: selling 1-2 million copies, tops).

The mix in DA may be the result of following what is popular (Dark! + Awesooooooome!) and throwing this together; whether that makes for a good ‘compromise’ between the serious and the silly?
What we probably need is government regulation...

[Giant ambush beetle]

Han Shot First wrote...

It looks silly and ridiculous.

Unless there is some sort of spell attached that I hope to the Maker is optional, there should be no reason why boulders would by flying up from the ground after a sword strike. This smells like DA2 awesome button.

This

[Lotion Soronarr]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The solution here is to get rid of realism when it comes to combat animations. That way, an animation that's obviously stylistic doesn't feel out of place.

No.
Get rid of sylized bull**** and make proper and sensible looking fights instead.

[Rawgrim]

I am ok with the combat not being 100 percent realistic. But they should at least add some concistancy to it. Wacking a sword into the ground and making it summon rocks, is pushing it too far. The same thing goes for Cassandra smashing down a castle gate with her shield. It just makes me cringe. Things that make me cringe isn`t what I consider to be cool.

[Clertar]

I think it's just a part of the physics engine + the martial power of DA warriors.

And let's face it: if a warrior can kill a dragon (I'm thinking Nevarran dragon hunters), that already implies that martial skills in the DA world are of a mythical level, more on par with wuxia films than with the pseudo-realist skills of works like the evoked LotR film.

Think Avatar:TLA, where it's not just element bending that's a fantastic contribution to the show, but also outright "normal" martial arts (Kyoshi warriors, etc.)

Modifié par Clertar, 18 septembre 2013 - 11:10 .

[Boycott Bioware]

more realism, more better

I want to see heavy swinging, clanking sound, chain armor sound, blocking attack with shield, blocking arrows with shield, arrows attached to the shield, beheading, decapitation, evasion, dodging attacks, weapon blocking, heavy bashing, slow running, sprinting, sweating, breathless, suffocation, pain, shield up, shield down, shield parry multiple attacks, weapon parrying, aim and shoot, run and shoot, acrobatic evasion, roll forward, roll backward, roll and attack...all in real speed

[Bleachrude]

If we're going for REALISM, then there's ABSOLUTELY no way that a warrior can beat an OGRE in sword to sword combat.

Do people not realize jjust how silly the "I want realism" argument sounds when you have no problem with a human having even the slightest chance of fighting a creature that can pick up a fully armoured human in one hand????

And said human can then become strong enough to actually beat down a creature that can pick up said ogre in one claw (High dragon)/

Yet a human being able to create craters and being able to bring down a porticullis...THAT's unrealistic??!?!

[Star fury]

If you want realism in medieval combat, look no further than Braveheart. It has the best and the most realistic combat scenes. Mel Gibson made a splendid job, Peter Jackson actually said he wanted his combat look like Braveheart, he failed.

Not sure if I want mo-cap etc. if Bioware have a decent RPG system.

[KristinCousland]

Bleachrude wrote...

If we're going for REALISM, then there's ABSOLUTELY no way that a warrior can beat an OGRE in sword to sword combat.

Do people not realize jjust how silly the "I want realism" argument sounds when you have no problem with a human having even the slightest chance of fighting a creature that can pick up a fully armoured human in one hand????

And said human can then become strong enough to actually beat down a creature that can pick up said ogre in one claw (High dragon)/

Yet a human being able to create craters and being able to bring down a porticullis...THAT's unrealistic??!?!

Finally you have arrived 

An Ogre is a creature of flesh and tainted blood. It can be brough down, just like primitive man brought down mammoths.  

The bigger they are the harder they fall. :innocent:

In the end it is a question what feels real and congruent with the story you are in.  A very capable band of warriors bringing down a huge mammoth like creature passes that test -  for me.

Whilst cratering a stony floor with your sword does not pass the test.

So are you arguing that since your party are able to kill a dragon or an ogre, then we do not need to care about anything else being sort of feasible?  Everything is possible?  Giant healing mushrooms? Because why not?  We killed an Ogre?

The world of Thedas seems to be very much like our own. Humans are humans, physics are physics etc.

Then in addition to these basic rules of the setting, we have mages, the fade etc.

If everything was just fantasty we might as well play the entirity of the game in the fade? 

[KristinCousland]

Star fury wrote...

If you want realism in medieval combat, look no further than Braveheart. It has the best and the most realistic combat scenes. Mel Gibson made a splendid job, Peter Jackson actually said he wanted his combat look like Braveheart, he failed.

Not sure if I want mo-cap etc. if Bioware have a decent RPG system.

Well you get my drift? Braveheart, LOTR or 300.  They are all good approximations of what I feel is an appropriate level of realism.

We already have had one Braveheart reference on this thread already.

Anyhow, I think the combat we have seen so far does look excellent as it is. 

My pet peeve is with those darned magical stone boulders :innocent:

[crimzontearz]

The word realistic should stop being thrown around and replaced by verosimile

That said, I am good with both verosimile and highly stylized combat as long as they committ to it and don't backpedal

[Xilizhra]

Well you get my drift? Braveheart, LOTR or 300. They are all good approximations of what I feel is an appropriate level of realism.

300? What? The Spartans breaking their phalanx and not getting slaughtered is realistic? Not to mention their near-nudity?