305 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

I sure hope so. That'll mean there will be more elves for me to slay.

If you get to genocide elves I get to wipe out maker cultists. 

Every last one crucified and screaming.

[Gwydden]

I don't see an elven rebellion going well for them. There are far too few elves, and they are far too divided. All humans will automatically turn on them, and they wouldn't stand a chance. I don't see a happy family reunion between city elves and dalish happening either. The former have more in common with the humans, culturally speaking, than the latter, not to mention the dalish look down on their cousins (and everyone else). That would leave the city elves rather indisposed towards changing their situation from being second class citizens to humans to being second class citizens to the dalish.

The best possible outcome for the dalish is them getting a land of their own, preferably away from human eyes. Too close and one or the other will inevitably resort to war, as it has happend twice before with no one really knowing who shot the first bullet, and the dalish would be wiped out, as it has also been closed to happening twice before. There is no place for the city elves in the dalish country, though. It would be best for them to try to ease the racial tensions between humans and them, see if they can live in human kingdoms like average citizens.

I honestly believe that elves mixing with humans would be the quickest and most effective way to diminish the antagonism.

[Vilegrim]

Gwydden wrote...

I don't see an elven rebellion going well for them. There are far too few elves, and they are far too divided. All humans will automatically turn on them, and they wouldn't stand a chance. I don't see a happy family reunion between city elves and dalish happening either. The former have more in common with the humans, culturally speaking, than the latter, not to mention the dalish look down on their cousins (and everyone else). That would leave the city elves rather indisposed towards changing their situation from being second class citizens to humans to being second class citizens to the dalish.

The best possible outcome for the dalish is them getting a land of their own, preferably away from human eyes. Too close and one or the other will inevitably resort to war, as it has happend twice before with no one really knowing who shot the first bullet, and the dalish would be wiped out, as it has also been closed to happening twice before. There is no place for the city elves in the dalish country, though. It would be best for them to try to ease the racial tensions between humans and them, see if they can live in human kingdoms like average citizens.

I honestly believe that elves mixing with humans would be the quickest and most effective way to diminish the antagonism.

The only way the chantry would accept that os if elves convert and get in the concentration camp....sorry alienages 

[Vilegrim]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

As long as all those vile creatures have been eradicated, you can do whatever you want.

So death to all humans all qunari and all elves?

[Vilegrim]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

I'd like to keep the existence of humanity going. Everything else can get murder knifed.

Live free in the love of the true gods or die a slave of the maker it's all the same to me.

[RedArmyShogun]

Kill the Bloody knife ears, rape their naivee looking women folk.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Our motto:
Down with elven rebel scum.

[Aolbain]

Hopefully so. The city elves are the only cause in Thedas I wholeheartedly support.

[Br3admax]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

Then I must ask that you draw your steel and we do battle in this thread, Ser Vilegrim.

Seconded. 

[lady_v23]

I would not mind. But the charm for me of playing as an elf is being the under dog. Getting stronger so you can go above and laugh in your abuser's face. Without tha you're pretty much like a normal human but with pointy ears.

I would like if this happens in the very last game of the series.

[Sir JK]

maliluka wrote...

Here is a thought maybe we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Maybe it's not the Elves that start the rebellion, but it is the rumored plot of the rebellion that causes action. If the meeting of the clans occurs about the same time this rumor starts going around, and you have a bunch of humans who are already superstitious trouble will start brewing.

Ooh! Interesting... I like this idea. Not only does it put the focus point on the modern day (something that's frequently forgotten when the Dalish are involved) but it also neatly explains why the city elves would want to join the Dalish en masse.

I like this a lot.

[wright1978]

My first inquisitor will likely have sympathy for Elves & any possible rebellion if an its a big if, as long as they aren't making pacts with the despicable Qunari.

[Drasanil]

TK514 wrote...
That leave us with:

• Anecdotal evidence in-game DA:O, with the one visible example being conclusively disproven by the Warden.
• Second Hand statements from a writer that are over a year and a half old.
• First Hand statements from a writer that are a couple of months old.

Actually there is a bit more than that. When you talk to Master Illen in the Dalish origin he explains how his father battled the Alamarri tribres when the Dalish first came to Ferelden, which all things considered was a long time ago.

Again with the Dalish origin, when you get to the Dalish Camp Sarel asks how Paivel is doing and mentions that Paivel was old even when he was a child. Not as definitive admittedly but still it is something.

Finally you also have Ghaynae in the Dalish camp that mentions Dalish tend to live longer than City Elves, but that could just be due to the poor conditions in the alienage and such so less noteworthy. 

It seems more like different writers having different opinions on the matter, especially given we are given hints in game, all be it minus flat out proof.


--- --- ---

Personally, I'm not sure if the immortality thing is true, or even if they had greater longevity. Mostly because the idea of the quickening just strikes me as silly. If the ancient elves were immortal/more magical I hope they didn't lose it because of what essentially amounts to human cooties. 

I`d prefer an actual explination such as, when they were Enslaved Tevinter Blood Magic slowly drained their mojo from them over the years and generations. Or that something metaphysical changed cutting them off from the source of their gifts. Sandal hinted in a creepy dialogue quote that something was going to happen and that people would be become as they used to be. Maybe the Fade Tear will give the elves a literal boost which will forment the rebellion. 

--- --- ---

Speaking of the Rebellion, I'm kind of hoping it doesn`t happen, or at least if it does it isn`t connected directly to the World going ****** up. That seems like a politically disastrous situation waiting to happen, especially when we have an example of something similar in the Second Blight and its consequences. 

Ideally, it would be the time for the elves to actually buck up and make themselves valuable, earn the respect from humans. The only problem with that though is when they have done it in the past, they still essentially got nothing for it. 

-Garahel* ended the 4th Blight and the elves got absolutely no respect for it.

-The elves played their part in Ferelden's rebellion against Orlais. Yet with in a generation Loghain turns around and sells them as slaves. Which is doubly ironic considering that IIRC Lghain was in charge of the elven sabatours.

-The Dalish get land if they help against the Blight in DAO, with in a space of ~7 years it goes badly.

So it's kind of a coin toss, the rebellion might seem like the only means, but I hope there's a chance to do things in a more sensible way.

*Speaking of Garahel, be rather cool if one of the elven backgrounds was a noble-born elf descended from Garahel. A sort of parallel to the Elven Bann boon the CE Warden can get at the end of DAO.

[LobselVith8]

wcholcombe wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

No one knows the absolute truth (despite the Chantry supporters in this thread trying to claim that it's the Orlesian version that vilifies the elves), but it's asinine for WoT to dismiss the fact that the Dalish have their own version to such an important moment in their history.

Unless this is bioware trying to tell us what really happened.  If you were writing a scholarly account of how an event from the past happened, you would look for corroborating 1st hand accounts that support each other.  Niether the Warden or the dailesh oral histories are 1st hand accounts.  

Given how Andrastian/Human centric some of the entries are in tone and delivery, I don't think that's the case, and I found it disappointing about WoT because Andrastian culture doesn't interest me. As for Inquisition, I certainly hope the Dalish protagonist is afforded his own elven point of view on the war with Orlais, Tevinter, the Orlesian Empire, and the Chantry of Andraste.

[Vilegrim]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

Then I must ask that you draw your steel and we do battle in this thread, Selr Vilegrim.

 challenge accepted en garde ser!

[wcholcombe]

maliluka wrote...

Here is a thought maybe we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Maybe it's not the Elves that start the rebellion, but it is the rumored plot of the rebellion that causes action. If the meeting of the clans occurs about the same time this rumor starts going around, and you have a bunch of humans who are already superstitious trouble will start brewing.

In Asunder there is already rumor of an elvish rebellion prior to the Civil War starting.

It is unclear though if this actually happened, or if Gaspard spread the rumor to draw the Empress out of the Capital.

[General TSAR]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

Our motto:
Down with elven rebel scum.

That's a motto I can appreciate.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

"World of Thedas" is written in a very informative an unbiased perspective. Almost anytime it mentions something disputed or from the perspective of somebody, it goes as far as to mention that.

"The Chant teaches that Black City was once the Golden City, the seat of the Maker from which he ruled the Fade."

"Why Blights happen is debated."

"The Chantry teaches that the first darkspawn came from what is known as the 'Second Sin.'"

"To most Thedosians it is a corrupt and degenerate magocracy that must be feared until it can be converted. The Tevinters themselves view the rest of Thedas as barely civilized savages that lack proper respect for authority."

"Prevailing wisdom says that Andraste came into this world in the small village of Denerim, now a bustling capital."

"According to the Chant of Light, the Maker emerged from his retreat after falling in love with Andraste and beautiful song she sang for him."

"When he saw her blood spill, they say he became a faithful servant of her god. Others allege Hesserion only converted when he realized he could not fight the influence of her cult on his people."

"Koslun is said to have come to his philosophy while searching for a society without hopelessness or despair."

"The Dalish tell stories of an ancient conflict during the reign of the elven gods."

"It is said the elves were once immortal beings who lived by their own rules and beliefs."

"The forced excising of emotions is controversial among mages, who argue the ethics of the practice."

"The legendary Thalsian was the first Dreamer. It is said he communicated with and learned blood magic from The Old God Dumat after encountering visions of him in what is now assumed to be the Fade."

"To many humans, the Qunari are an evil and tyrannical people who do not believe in individual rights."

I think it's supposed to be a reliable book.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[simpatikool]

In my Thedas story, I am of the opinion that it is the Elves who caused the rip in the veil in order to empower their rebellion in the first place.

[maliluka]

wcholcombe wrote...

maliluka wrote...

Here is a thought maybe we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Maybe it's not the Elves that start the rebellion, but it is the rumored plot of the rebellion that causes action. If the meeting of the clans occurs about the same time this rumor starts going around, and you have a bunch of humans who are already superstitious trouble will start brewing.

In Asunder there is already rumor of an elvish rebellion prior to the Civil War starting.

It is unclear though if this actually happened, or if Gaspard spread the rumor to draw the Empress out of the Capital.

If Gaspard spreads the rumor that there is a rebellion brewing to lure Empress Celiene out and it coincides with when the clans are gathered it would provide somewhat of a convenient timing mix.  The Dalish are already once bitten twice shy when it comes to dealing with humans, and if you have a band of superstitious humans who think that their Empress and or City may be under attack due to the large number of Dalish  congregating for Arlathvhen. 

Was just a random thought on my end

[Jedi Master of Orion]

This might just be semantics, but how can the the Empress be lured away by rumors of a Dalish rebellion? The Dalish can't rebel against Orlais, they aren't under Orlesian authority. City Elves can rebel against Orlais, Dalish can only attack it. Does Asunder mention the Dalish or just the elves in general?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 07:01 .