305 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

wcholcombe wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm not too worried about a bunch of vagabonds raising sticks in the air saying they're angry.

Well, not all vagabonds are weak(see Quarians).

The elves pretty much are weak however:lol: 

History contradicts this. Orlais needed all the Andrastian nations to defeat the elves.

Because Orlais was severely weakened after the blight. The elves didn't had that problem because they didn't helped in the fight against it.

That's funny because the Orlesians attacked the Dales first. They were weaken by the blight and still picked a fight. Then needed the chantry to bail them out of a fight they started.

According to the World of Thedas the border skirmishes escalated when the elves attacked Red Crossing.

" The Dalish claim the war started after the Chantry sent templars into their sovereign territory after the elves kicked their missionaries out of the Dales."

http://dragonage.wik...ll_of_the_Dales

What you just said was chantry popaganda

And what you said is elvish propaganda. Forgive me if I don't take the word of a bunch of elves who were too good to help save existence against the blight.

Says the people who helped cause the Qunari to uprise in Kirkwall. I suspect shems forcing themselves on elven women are lies,too.

I don't get it.. You want to screw us and then you want to "screw" us...Make up your minds.

[leaguer of one]

maliluka wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

And I think the elves' best hope is to ally with the Qunari, the Qunari have always been friendly to the oppressed elves and casteless dwarves in Thedas...well, more friendly than humans at the very least.

Allying with the Qunari is fine if you want to end up a Qunari, but pretty foolish if you want to keep your own culture, freedom and whatnot.

i think we covered this, the City Elves I can see following the Qun, the Dalish no

There just new masters by another name.

[wcholcombe]

Vilegrim wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...



Where do I sign up to join this group? Freeing the elves and mages while tearing down the chantry? The first clearly and purely good actions in the setting so far. Removing the wall the maker used to limit peoples access tp the fade has been mishandled however. 

Really?  Purely good?  So you loose Malificar on the world without any controls on their wickedness?  You would risk loosing countless abominations upon a defenseless public out of some misguided greater perfectly good?

As for the elves, I am not familiar with the Dalish being persecuted as they pretty much live outside of most human laws anyway.

(Sorry if that sounds harsh, but gotta stay within the response of the setting)

Templar propaganda on the malificar front every time we see abominations they are people forced to desperation by the oppression of the circles.  The Dalish live outside human society constantly on the move to escape being forced to convert by the chantry.   The maker stole mortals birthright by sealing off the spirit world.  So yes good. 

Death to the chantry all hail the old gods.

Oh really?  You do know that malificar and abominations preced the chantry and templars.

And according to the Seeker of Trut in asunder,, not the best source, the black divine uses blood magic and other nasty magics.  Hence why he

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Qunari look at all bas equally (except maybe mages), and also being considered equal to everyone else in Qunari society would probably be appealing to many of the oppressed minorities like City Elves. But there'd be some division, and I'm not sure the entire city elf population would go for it. Qunari have often gained the support of downtrodden elves during fighting with humans, but there are also elves that hate the Qunari as a threat to their culture like the one who stole the Sar Qamek in Act 2.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 septembre 2013 - 09:54 .

[leaguer of one]

wcholcombe wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...



Where do I sign up to join this group? Freeing the elves and mages while tearing down the chantry? The first clearly and purely good actions in the setting so far. Removing the wall the maker used to limit peoples access tp the fade has been mishandled however. 

Really?  Purely good?  So you loose Malificar on the world without any controls on their wickedness?  You would risk loosing countless abominations upon a defenseless public out of some misguided greater perfectly good?

As for the elves, I am not familiar with the Dalish being persecuted as they pretty much live outside of most human laws anyway.

(Sorry if that sounds harsh, but gotta stay within the response of the setting)

Templar propaganda on the malificar front every time we see abominations they are people forced to desperation by the oppression of the circles.  The Dalish live outside human society constantly on the move to escape being forced to convert by the chantry.   The maker stole mortals birthright by sealing off the spirit world.  So yes good. 

Death to the chantry all hail the old gods.

Oh really?  You do know that malificar and abominations preced the chantry and templars.

And according to the Seeker of Trut in asunder,, not the best source, the black divine uses blood magic and other nasty magics.  Hence why he

News of the hour....

Because some mages in Tevintor used blood magic, which they have a strong culture of doing, all mages are going to use blood magic just because.

It's true because some templar who is paraniod of all mages says so.

[VampireSoap]

Silfren wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

mutant_anemone wrote...

I'm all for an elven rebellion.

Next up: the casteless!

If you pick Bhelen as king the Casteless have little reason to rebell.

This assumes that Bhelen is as truly progressive as he claimed to be during Origins.  There's no guarantee of this at all, and in fact there's evidence against it, given that the lore does precious little to paint him as anything other than a power-hungry opportunist. 

No, if you hunt down all the scrolls or documents, you would know that he's really going to be a better king than Harrowmont. But I still gave the crown to Harrowmont because I was afraid that Bhelen was going to become a dwarven Hitler and eventually invade the surface world with his reformed troopers and causing all kinds of havoc. I thought it's better to have an incompetent king than a power hunger one...

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Qunari look at all bas equally (except maybe mages), and also being considered equal to everyone else in Qunari society would probably be appealing to many of the oppressed minorities like City Elves. But there'd be some division, and I'm not sure the entire city elf population would go for it. Qunari have often gained the support of downtrodden elves during fighting with humans, but there are also elves that hate the Qunari as a threat to their culture like the one who stole the Sar Qamek in Act 2.

Wait untill they learn they can only have sex on command.

[leaguer of one]

VampireSoap wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

mutant_anemone wrote...

I'm all for an elven rebellion.

Next up: the casteless!

If you pick Bhelen as king the Casteless have little reason to rebell.

This assumes that Bhelen is as truly progressive as he claimed to be during Origins.  There's no guarantee of this at all, and in fact there's evidence against it, given that the lore does precious little to paint him as anything other than a power-hungry opportunist. 

No, if you hunt down all the scrolls or documents, you would know that he's really going to be a better king than Harrowmont. But I still gave the crown to Harrowmont because I was afraid that Bhelen was going to become a dwarven Hitler and eventually invade the surface world with his reformed troopers and causing all kinds of havoc. I thought it's better to have an incompetent king than a power hunger one...

That's a jump. How do you get that assumption?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Qunari look at all bas equally (except maybe mages), and also being considered equal to everyone else in Qunari society would probably be appealing to many of the oppressed minorities like City Elves. But there'd be some division, and I'm not sure the entire city elf population would go for it. Qunari have often gained the support of downtrodden elves during fighting with humans, but there are also elves that hate the Qunari as a threat to their culture like the one who stole the Sar Qamek in Act 2.

Wait untill they learn they can only have sex on command.

Sex is not important to Qunari, except for making more Qunari for later.

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Qunari look at all bas equally (except maybe mages), and also being considered equal to everyone else in Qunari society would probably be appealing to many of the oppressed minorities like City Elves. But there'd be some division, and I'm not sure the entire city elf population would go for it. Qunari have often gained the support of downtrodden elves during fighting with humans, but there are also elves that hate the Qunari as a threat to their culture like the one who stole the Sar Qamek in Act 2.

Wait untill they learn they can only have sex on command.

Sex is not important to Qunari, except for making more Qunari for later.

That's for the qunari. That's not the same for everyone else.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well as I said, I think it'd be up to individuals elves whether that's a sacrifice that's worth it to them. There will be a lot of different opinions. Some elves (especially up north in Tevinter) don't have authority over their sex lives either.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 septembre 2013 - 10:08 .

[BlueMagitek]

Two Dalish clans down, a few more to go. I wonder if they'll be confused as to the absence of the Sabrae and Zathrian's clan.

Ah well, they won't want for long. ~_^

[VampireSoap]

Wulfram wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

And I think the elves' best hope is to ally with the Qunari, the Qunari have always been friendly to the oppressed elves and casteless dwarves in Thedas...well, more friendly than humans at the very least.

Allying with the Qunari is fine if you want to end up a Qunari, but pretty foolish if you want to keep your own culture, freedom and whatnot.

Adolf Hitler allied with Joseph Stalin prior to WW2 in order to invade Poland. A convenient alliance between two ideological enemies is not unlikely. The elves just have to double-cross the Qunari once they got their freedom and independence, possibly they'll ally themselves with other human factions to form a united front against the Qunari. And on the hand, at the beginning of the rebellion the Qunari would still help the elves even if they know the elves would eventually betray them...because the Qunari would love to see a weakened Thedas, ripe for the taking...

Modifié par VampireSoap, 18 septembre 2013 - 10:27 .

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well as I said, I think it'd be up to individuals elves whether that's a sacrifice that's worth it to them. There will be a lot of different opinions. Some elves (especially up north in Tevinter) don't have authority over their sex lives either.

But that Tevintor. I can see why they would pick the qun. They don't know what freedom is...(Fenris sister say freedom is no boon.)But the elves of other places know what freedom is and would not give it up to gain new masters so easily.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Barring exceptional circumstances like a Blight or something, the Qunari would only ever agree to "ally" with elves on their own terms. They have one goal: bring the bas to the Qun. If the elves want to help with that then fine, but if not then the Qunari would probably treat them as any other enemies. I suspect the Qunari attitude to their enemies in Thedas is the same as the Arishok's towards his in Kirkwall. "I don't fear the whole of them together."

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well as I said, I think it'd be up to individuals elves whether that's a sacrifice that's worth it to them. There will be a lot of different opinions. Some elves (especially up north in Tevinter) don't have authority over their sex lives either.

But that Tevintor. I can see why they would pick the qun. They don't know what freedom is...(Fenris sister say freedom is no boon.)But the elves of other places know what freedom is and would not give it up to gain new masters
so easily.

But it still happens in other places too, if maybe not as much. During the First Qunari Occupation of Kirkwall, it was said many elves prospered and briefly became important citizens. And there were many elves who helped the Arishok try to take over Kirkwall the second time too. Elves still suffer enough in places like Kirkwall and Ferelden for them to consider converting.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 septembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[In Exile]

The Qunari have never shown that they ally with anyone. They accepted the elves as viddithari, but that's quite a different thing. There's no indication that the Qunari would suffer the elves existing as a people on their own.

But it still happens in other places too, if maybe not as much. During the First Qunari Occupation of Kirkwall, it was said many elves prospered and briefly became important citizens. And there were many elves who helped the Arishok try to take over Kirkwall the second time too. Elves still suffer enough in places like Kirkwall and Ferelden for them to consider converting.

It was still forcible conversion. The Qun doesn't discriminate, but elven freedom is more than trading a human master for a horned one.

Modifié par In Exile, 18 septembre 2013 - 10:43 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think anyone forced those elves to help the Qunari uprising or to rise as high as they did under the first Qunari occupation. I think I read somewhere that there were actually elves that were unhappy to see the Qunari driven from Kirkwall because they had become equals for the first time in their lives.

Qunari society is certainly rigid and authoritarian but it's not quite the same as living under humans. In human nations they are considered lessers, but in Qunari society they are considered equals, with humans and with the "regular" Qunari. It may be a price that is too much for elves to pay but it's not just replacing one master with another.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 septembre 2013 - 11:00 .

[Silfren]

Never mind.  Weird computer glitch posted an hours-old post.

Modifié par Silfren, 19 septembre 2013 - 12:10 .

[Silfren]

VampireSoap wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

mutant_anemone wrote...

I'm all for an elven rebellion.

Next up: the casteless!

If you pick Bhelen as king the Casteless have little reason to rebell.

This assumes that Bhelen is as truly progressive as he claimed to be during Origins.  There's no guarantee of this at all, and in fact there's evidence against it, given that the lore does precious little to paint him as anything other than a power-hungry opportunist. 

No, if you hunt down all the scrolls or documents, you would know that he's really going to be a better king than Harrowmont. But I still gave the crown to Harrowmont because I was afraid that Bhelen was going to become a dwarven Hitler and eventually invade the surface world with his reformed troopers and causing all kinds of havoc. I thought it's better to have an incompetent king than a power hunger one...

Could you be a little specific as to what all these scrolls and documents say?  I've never seen anything that unambiguously suggested that Bhelen was better (better defined here as progressive in the matter of improving the lives of casteless), since being a "better" king can mean any number of things.

....I think it's a bit over the top, however, to be afraid that Bhelen was going to be a 'dwarven Hitler."  Nothing about him indicated he was interested in conquering the surface world.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

We don't know who attacked first. But Orlais did not need other Andrastian nations to defeat the Dales. Only Orlesians participated in the Exalted March.

The other Andrastian nations aided Orlais when the Exalted March was called against the Dales; that assistance included the Circles of Magi.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Nope. World of Thedas explicitly says only Orlais had any actual troops participate.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 01:12 .

[BlueMagitek]

Is misinformation being spread again? Saw that coming. ~_^

The Dalish would have to be completely daft to side with the Qunari. The Andrastian nations might see them as bandits and apostates, but the Qun would see them as another enemy to be eradicated.

[cjones91]

The Chantry did help Orlais by calling troops from other nations to help defeat the "heretics" from the Dales.They even told stories about how the Dalish sacrificed human children in blood rituals just to get people to hate the elves.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not from other nations. Just from Orlais.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Nope. World of Thedas explicitly says only Orlais had any actual troops participate.

The passage you reference from page 13 also says Orlais forced the elves into settlements (Alienages), while the codex says it was the Chantry. Conflicting information, as you can see. WoT also says Bhelen is the middle child and that the first Blight was only a hundred years; it has some errors.

The whole point of the Exalted March is that Orlais was losing to the Dales, and the elves proceeded to Val Royeaux. The Exalted March changed that because Orlais was losing, and a holy war was declared. Ariane also referenced the role the Circle of Magi played in their loss, and the theft of some of their lore.