305 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

What exactly do you imagine the full version of the Dalish accounts of the Fall of the Dales to be? That the Chantry gathered up all the nations of Thedas to attack the isolationist Dales before any other fighting had broken out and attacked because the Chantry wanted to convert them?

If so, then think the book didn't include that version because the writers are telling us it wasn't actually what happened.

Right, because the already weaken Orlais who was weaken even more by their losses in the war turned the tide  suddenly just because.<_<

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Because she seems to have made a mistake, given Gaider's comment and the Dalish in Origins.

And the writers of WOT have determined that the Dalish made a mistake, and mistated events to suit their fable. See? I just paralleled your reasoning. 

Yes, the scolars finaced by the chantry thought the dalish wer mistakes. No way were they avoiding pissing off there finacers...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 03:38 .

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Right, because the already weaken Orlais who was weaken even more by their losses in the war turned the tide  suddenly just because.<_<

The Dalish crushed the Orlesians, raided their cities, and (almost) took their capital. The Orlesians won the war, but a prepared invander tends not to start a surprise attack by losing battles repeatedly and having their capital conquered. 

Yes, the scolars finaced by the chantry thought the dalish wer mistakes. No way were they avoiding pissing off there finacers...

WOT was written by one of Bioware's lore wiki persons based on the thread asking Bioware devs Qs in the OT forum, so I imagine that the oversight was intentional. 

Modifié par In Exile, 19 septembre 2013 - 03:40 .

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

What exactly do you imagine the full version of the Dalish accounts of the Fall of the Dales to be? That the Chantry gathered up all the nations of Thedas to attack the isolationist Dales before any other fighting had broken out and attacked because the Chantry wanted to convert them?

We aren't given the full version of the Dalish account of the inception to their war with Orlais and the Chantry of Andraste; we should have been given it in World of Thedas.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

If so, then think the book didn't include that version because the writers are telling us it wasn't actually what happened.

If the writers wanted to tell us that, they could actually say so.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't think the human and elf tellings of the story are so dramatically far apart, just that they emphasize different events from the time. 

The Dalish (and possibly the elven Warden) claim the Chantry started the war. That's quote a difference from the Orlesian version.

[Daerog]

Geez, this is like a new form of Godwin's Law for the BSN.

It seems like the longer lore is talked about in a forum on Dragon Age, the more likely a debate of Mages vs Templars or Elves vs Chantry/Humans will spring up, even if the thread wasn't about either of those debates.

I think BW needs to introduce other controversies to spice things up on the forums...

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Vassals sandbag their liege lords all the time. 

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Because she seems to have made a mistake, given Gaider's comment and the Dalish in Origins.

I doubt it as DG's statement isn't ironclad as it's only backed by Zathrian. 

The Dalish mention the longevity of the People. Zathrian wasn't the only one who lived a long life; he simply seemed to be the one who didn't age, and the player can discover why.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Not all of Orlais, but the head of the country's major religion calling for a holy war will motivate more people than otherwise. Plus, the Chantry's standing army began to directly participate to support Orlais army.

[Daerog]

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

No, they probably did. However, with an Exalted March being called for, Orlais can bring in mages from the Circles. Which they wouldn't necessarily have full access to before the March. The Chantry doesn't like to have so many mages in war unless an Exalted March is called.

Edit: I mean that the orlesian commoners likely answered, but when mages enter wars, things get interesting. Like with the Qunari Invasions.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 19 septembre 2013 - 03:47 .

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Vassals sandbag their liege lords all the time. 

Only when thye plan to stab them in the back. The commoner don't have this privalige in wars.

[wcholcombe]

The Dalish and the elven warder are both heresy, neither are a 1st hand scholarly account of what happened which is what WoT is based on.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

What exactly do you imagine the full version of the Dalish accounts of the Fall of the Dales to be? That the Chantry gathered up all the nations of Thedas to attack the isolationist Dales before any other fighting had broken out and attacked because the Chantry wanted to convert them?

We aren't given the full version of the Dalish account of the inception to their war with Orlais and the Chantry of Andraste; we should have been given it in World of Thedas.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

If so, then think the book didn't include that version because the writers are telling us it wasn't actually what happened.

If the writers wanted to tell us that, they could actually say so.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't think the human and elf tellings of the story are so dramatically far apart, just that they emphasize different events from the time. 

The Dalish (and possibly the elven Warden) claim the Chantry started the war. That's quote a difference from the Orlesian version.

It's not that different, after 700 years the line between the Chantry and Orlais would have just been blurry. It's honestly not a distiction I'd expect the Dalish to be all much that interested in, as well. Especially since the war ended with the Chantry conquering Halamshiral and imposing their relgious laws on the Dales. Their lasting memory of the war would have been bitterness towards the Chantry.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 septembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Not all of Orlais, but the head of the country's major religion calling for a holy war will motivate more people than otherwise. Plus, the Chantry's standing army began to directly participate to support Orlais army.

1. Calling a march includes mages form all circles
2. The chantries army covers all of southern Thedus.....

So in the end it was Orlais with help.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Only when thye plan to stab them in the back. The commoner don't have this privalige in wars.

The commoners aren't summoned by the king. They're summoned by their liege. And given the political games that Orlais is playing, it's not even a little surprising that the Orlesians wouldn't band against an "elven raid" until they had to.

[leaguer of one]

wcholcombe wrote...

The Dalish and the elven warder are both heresy, neither are a 1st hand scholarly account of what happened which is what WoT is based on.

Like every thing written is true, Shem.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Not all of Orlais, but the head of the country's major religion calling for a holy war will motivate more people than otherwise. Plus, the Chantry's standing army began to directly participate to support Orlais army.

1. Calling a march includes mages form all circles
2. The chantries army covers all of southern Thedus.....

So in the end it was Orlais with help.

There exist Templars and Cirlce Mages in Orlais too.

[Daerog]

LobselVith8 wrote...


If the writers wanted to tell us that, they could actually say so.

But the writers and other devs like watching these forum wars I bet.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Only when thye plan to stab them in the back. The commoner don't have this privalige in wars.

The commoners aren't summoned by the king. They're summoned by their liege. And given the political games that Orlais is playing, it's not even a little surprising that the Orlesians wouldn't band against an "elven raid" until they had to.

So a weakend nation is going to let it self get weaker?

[LobselVith8]

wcholcombe wrote...

The Dalish and the elven warder are both heresy, neither are a 1st hand scholarly account of what happened which is what WoT is based on. 

No one knows the absolute truth (despite the Chantry supporters in this thread trying to claim that it's the Orlesian version that vilifies the elves), but it's asinine for WoT to dismiss the fact that the Dalish have their own version to such an important moment in their history.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Dalish mention the longevity of the People. Zathrian wasn't the only one who lived a long life; he simply seemed to be the one who didn't age, and the player can discover why.

Your ability to deny reality is sublime. I swear I could put an elephant in front of you and you would call it a mouse. "The trunk is too short. It looks like a nose. And those hairs on the ears? Fur."

Yes, the one group who has a religious belief in their own immorality has lots of people - with zero evidence - mention their immorality. Zathrian was the only one ever shown in-game to have an unaturally long life and it was blood magic. 

Saying "he appeared not to age" and that the "player can discover why" is just a blanant denial of reality that it takes double-speak to levels that even 1984 didn't aspire to reach.

Modifié par In Exile, 19 septembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[leaguer of one]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Not all of Orlais, but the head of the country's major religion calling for a holy war will motivate more people than otherwise. Plus, the Chantry's standing army began to directly participate to support Orlais army.

1. Calling a march includes mages form all circles
2. The chantries army covers all of southern Thedus.....

So in the end it was Orlais with help.

There exist Templars and Cirlce Mages in Orlais too.

That still means Orlais with help.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
So a weakend nation is going to let it self get weaker?

Selfish nobles let their enemies die against brigands. It's not that complex a concept.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They turned the tide because more citizens answered the Divine's call to fight a holy war and the templars and mages also joined in. It is possible for a nation to turn the tide in a war it is fighting alone, you know.

So, when the Orlesian made the call for war the first time...All of Orlais ignored it.?... Funny, wars don't work like that.

Not all of Orlais, but the head of the country's major religion calling for a holy war will motivate more people than otherwise. Plus, the Chantry's standing army began to directly participate to support Orlais army.

1. Calling a march includes mages form all circles
2. The chantries army covers all of southern Thedus.....

So in the end it was Orlais with help.

There exist Templars and Cirlce Mages in Orlais too.

That still means Orlais with help.

But still not necessarily from outside the country.