935 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

To me Aveline always seemed borderline neutral. She seemed to only really come down on the issue when it started threatening civic law and order and she certainly wasn't so pro-templar that she was happy about them intruding on her turf.

Pretty much. In Act 3 she is not happy at all that the templars are absuing power and putting their noses in her work.

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

We better have a templar companion, we will have two mages, and most likely one of them will support the mage pov, not having a templar companion would be poor writing, unbalanced and show bias.

We had a reasonably balanced perspective in DA2. Merrill and Anders for, Aveline and Fenris against, Varric and Isabela neutral, and Sebastian twisting in the wind. All without any templars.

Aveline was about law and order, she was not pro templar at all. Fenris was though. Anders was a nutty dog and Merrill didn't even care for the mage plight until lthe end of the game because reasons.

Aveline shows some anti-mage leanings after Night Terrors if you bring her along. Sebastian might be more fitting, but then, we've also got Cassandra on this team.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Mr.House wrote...

We better have a templar companion, we will have two mages, and most likely one of them will support the mage pov, not having a templar companion would be poor writing, unbalanced and show bias.

We already have Cassandra who should be anti-mage class having two anti-mages is pointless.We have cass , qunari , and warden as probably warriors and companions so fourth warrior will be unbalaced.  

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would like having a templar join our ranks, the one from asunder who helped wynne to be specific, but kf not than Ill be fine with a different templar companion.

And templar armor thst is easy to get, for the console players please.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

We better have a templar companion, we will have two mages, and most likely one of them will support the mage pov, not having a templar companion would be poor writing, unbalanced and show bias.

We had a reasonably balanced perspective in DA2. Merrill and Anders for, Aveline and Fenris against, Varric and Isabela neutral, and Sebastian twisting in the wind. All without any templars.

Aveline was about law and order, she was not pro templar at all. Fenris was though. Anders was a nutty dog and Merrill didn't even care for the mage plight until lthe end of the game because reasons.

Aveline shows some anti-mage leanings after Night Terrors if you bring her along. Sebastian might be more fitting, but then, we've also got Cassandra on this team.

And Aveline is hostile(not physical mind you) to templars in act 3.

[ElitePinecone]

Xilizhra wrote...

While I don't subscribe to this fully, a member of the enemy army offering to join forces could very easily be a spy. I'm not sufficiently paranoid to kill all potential spies, but I can see where the thought process comes from.

That's true, actually. I'm not familiar with Bioware's pre-KoTOR games so I don't know if they've ever had a companion who really *was* working for the Big Bad, with that as the twist for the entire game. I think a companion who was incredibly endearing and well-written who ended up utterly betraying the character could be an incredible plot device. 

Though, given the artificial way that the companion system works in general ("hey Inquisitor/Hawke/Warden/Shepard, I've known you for five minutes but now I'll follow you forever and totally believe in you, you have mystical power, please lead us!") I think default attitude of the *player* is that we expect companions to be deferential and helpful, which doesn't gel so well with being paranoid about everyone we meet. We've been conditioned to accept companions for their help and characterisation, not be instantly suspicious of their motives (which may explain the 'Damnit, Anders!" thing). 

I guess I'm just instinctively turned off by the quite frequent demands to murder companions in inventve ways just because people don't like them, often for some ridiculous reason. Fair enough that there could be (in some circumstances) legitimate reasons, or they could be roleplaying an extremist, or they just want a crazy playthrough, but something about it strikes me as totally, weirdly out of proportion. 

[Xilizhra]

And Aveline is hostile(not physical mind you) to templars in act 3.

But would side with them over the mages regardless.

That's true, actually. I'm not familiar with Bioware's pre-KoTOR games
so I don't know if they've ever had a companion who really *was* working
for the Big Bad, with that as the twist for the entire game. I think a
companion who was incredibly endearing and well-written who ended up
utterly betraying the character could be an incredible plot device.

It could... if there was a way to stop them beforehand.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:32 .

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

And Aveline is hostile(not physical mind you) to templars in act 3.

But would side with them over the mages regardless.

That still doesn't make her pro-Templar

And Cassandra isn't a Templar or pro-Templar either

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

And Aveline is hostile(not physical mind you) to templars in act 3.

But would side with them over the mages regardless.

Law and order. Aveline is all about protecting the civies, enforcing law and order and making sure dangers are put down. You expect that type of person to work with Orsino? Aveline is a complex character, she is not so one sided like Anders and Fenris.

[Xilizhra]

That still doesn't make her pro-Templar

And Cassandra isn't a Templar or pro-Templar either

She's a Seeker, under the same general umbrella.

Law and order. Aveline is all about protecting the civies, enforcing law and order and making sure dangers are put down. You expect that type of person to work with Orsino? Aveline is a complex character, she is not so one sided like Anders and Fenris.

Well, ultimately, she did. I think she was just a bit nervous about going up against another form of technically legitimate authority, but saw reason in the end.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Aveline shows some anti-mage leanings after Night Terrors if you bring her along. Sebastian might be more fitting, but then, we've also got Cassandra on this team.

Her party dialogue also shows her to be sympathetic to the Circle. I wouldn't say she's (leaning) anti-mage... just afraid of magic, which isn't quite the same thing. 

She's a Seeker, under the same general umbrella.

But she isn't rebelling with the templars, which I think says a lot about her views. 

Modifié par In Exile, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:39 .

[Mr.House]

I had Merrill help Meredith, getting Aveline to help Orsino is not hard in DA2 because the game made it possible for people to drop their ideals(though Merrill suddenly supporting the mage plight was just plain lazy)

[Xilizhra]

Her party dialogue also shows her to be sympathetic to the Circle. I wouldn't say she's (leaning) anti-mage... just afraid of magic, which isn't quite the same thing.

Magic is fundamentally part of mages, though.

But she isn't rebelling with the templars, which I think says a lot about her views.

Do we even know if there's a templar faction that's neither Red nor Chantry loyalist? It's possible that the Red Templars are the whole of Lambert's army.

I had Merrill help Meredith, getting Aveline to help Orsino is not hard in DA2 because the game made it possible for people to drop their ideals(though Merrill suddenly supporting the mage plight was just plain lazy)

Merrill was always mage-sympathetic if you look at her friendship gains, and she's against killing innocents.

[Fiery Phoenix]

TommyServo wrote...

I would put ten bucks on you getting your wish with Cullen.

[azarhal]

ElitePinecone wrote...

That's true, actually. I'm not familiar with Bioware's pre-KoTOR games so I don't know if they've ever had a companion who really *was* working for the Big Bad, with that as the twist for the entire game. I think a companion who was incredibly endearing and well-written who ended up utterly betraying the character could be an incredible plot device.

BG2 had a companion who was working for the big bad, but it wasn't the twist of the entire game. Or at least, not the bigest twist of that game.

[Mr.House]

Bioware has already confirmed Red Templars are a splinter faction, separated away from the Templar faction and Lamberts army? Has it even been confirmed he's alive or dead? You're just assuming things now.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Magic is fundamentally part of mages, though.

Yeah, but it's a very different motivation. I should add that in her dialogue, Aveline talks about what willpower mages have to have to constantly resist demons, and is shocked that they can do it at all. So her take-away isn't necessarily bad from that experience. 

Do we even know if there's a templar faction that's neither Red nor Chantry loyalist? It's possible that the Red Templars are the whole of Lambert's army.

They could be. But if they're all that extreme, again, that tells us something about Cass for not siding with them. 

[Reaverwind]

azarhal wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

That's true, actually. I'm not familiar with Bioware's pre-KoTOR games so I don't know if they've ever had a companion who really *was* working for the Big Bad, with that as the twist for the entire game. I think a companion who was incredibly endearing and well-written who ended up utterly betraying the character could be an incredible plot device.

BG2 had a companion who was working for the big bad, but it wasn't the twist of the entire game. Or at least, not the bigest twist of that game.

Oh yeah - that was actually quite a plot twist (thought definitely not the biggest twist) - it certainly caught me by surprise. However, it worked well within the plot. I don't know how well that would work in a more open-ended game.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

That still doesn't make her pro-Templar

And Cassandra isn't a Templar or pro-Templar either

She's a Seeker, under the same general umbrella.

.

Ok and? 

Still doesn't mean their pro-Templar

[TheKomandorShepard]

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware has already confirmed Red Templars are a splinter faction, separated away from the Templar faction and Lamberts army? Has it even been confirmed he's alive or dead? You're just assuming things now.

lambert have to be alive damn that would be lame if such badass was killed by such loser as cole.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[Xilizhra]

Bioware has already confirmed Red Templars are a splinter faction, separated away from the Templar faction and Lamberts army? Has it even been confirmed he's alive or dead? You're just assuming things now.

The templars as a whole were already a splinter faction.

Yeah, but it's a very different motivation. I should add that in her dialogue, Aveline talks about what willpower mages have to have to constantly resist demons, and is shocked that they can do it at all. So her take-away isn't necessarily bad from that experience.

She also says that the Circle is necessary, which is bad enough.

They could be. But if they're all that extreme, again, that tells us something about Cass for not siding with them.

Not that she's mage-sympathetic, just that she's loyalist or not psycho.

[Mr.House]

The circle is necessary by Aveliens pov because of Avelines job. It's not as simple as you are making it look like.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
She also says that the Circle is necessary, which is bad enough.

As a mundane, she'd frankly have to be insane not to think that Circles are necessary. The idea that most of the mundanes in Thedas could get behind mage freedom to be seems entirely unrealistic, even if they're all convinced that mages could resist demon temptation and blood magic. 

Mages are just objectively better than people. They're doctors, walking weather events, cannons, etc. all rolled into one. They're like gods compared to the average peasant. As a natural ruling class, it makes sense that people would have lots of pushback to them, especially since their abilities are so ostentatiously on display.

Mage freedom means mages vs. mundanes in some fashion or another. 

Not that she's mage-sympathetic, just that she's loyalist or not psycho.

I don't follow part of your post. What do you mean by loyalist?

Modifié par In Exile, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:53 .

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah, but it's a very different motivation. I should add that in her dialogue, Aveline talks about what willpower mages have to have to constantly resist demons, and is shocked that they can do it at all. So her take-away isn't necessarily bad from that experience.

She also says that the Circle is necessary, which is bad enough.

1. That's all bias opinion, because the idea of the Circle is not bad. Some of it's methods are unnecessary but the Circle is still a good idea

That's why Vivienne is Pro-Circle

[Xilizhra]

As a mundane, she'd frankly have to be insane not to think that Circles are necessary. The idea that most of the mundanes in Thedas could get behind mage freedom to be seems entirely unrealistic, even if they're all convinced that mages could resist demon temptation and blood magic.

Isabela doesn't fear mages.

Mage freedom means mages vs. mundanes in some fashion or another.

I don't believe it has to be forced like that, any more than anyone competing with anyone else.

I don't follow part of your post. What do you mean by loyalist?

Loyal to the Chantry.