935 réponses à ce sujet

[Chanda]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, thank you.

Cullen is a fundamentally decent, scrupulous man who has repeatedly found himself in terrible situations that makes one question human nature. That he has maintained any sort of moral compass at all is impressive.

Cullen was decent at one point. Then he became a genocidal fiend. Whether that can be made up for is open to question.

A genocidal fiend? Are you talking about how he acted in Origins, because he didn't seem like a genocidal fiend in DA2. And if you are talking about how he acted in Origins... Well how the heck would you have reacted to the situation, if you were in his shoes and gone through what he went through?

[Silfren]

Chanda wrote...
"Mages aren't people like you and me", and "Mages just need to be re-educated". I'm reminded of what some very conservative people have said about gays, because they are taught to be that way by their (usually) religious institution. "Homosexuals aren't people like you and me." "Homosexuals just need to be re-educated." Sometimes, something happens to these people, they have an experience where they get to know gays, or whatever, and they find that their own mind opens up about them. Their perspective changes due to their experiences. Either for better, or for worse.

That's one thing that Cullen's thing about re-educating mages brings to mind.  For me, though, it's the allusion to dystopic States that brainwash rebellious citizens to make them accepting of their plight.  Oh yeah, the Chantry turning all Circle mages into Keili...not disturbing at all, no.

[Xilizhra]

Chanda wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, thank you.

Cullen is a fundamentally decent, scrupulous man who has repeatedly found himself in terrible situations that makes one question human nature. That he has maintained any sort of moral compass at all is impressive.

Cullen was decent at one point. Then he became a genocidal fiend. Whether that can be made up for is open to question.

A genocidal fiend? Are you talking about how he acted in Origins, because he didn't seem like a genocidal fiend in DA2. And if you are talking about how he acted in Origins... Well how the heck would you have reacted to the situation, if you were in his shoes and gone through what he went through?

I was referring to the Annulment in DA2. Although I admit I was being redundant for rhetorical effect; participating in genocide is an automatic qualifier of fiendishness.

[Nightwriter]

Mr.House wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

What I mean is someone who currently views themselves as being a templar and/or upholding the templar ideal and was formally part of the order at some point.  Different templars are going to have different opinions of precisely what "being a templar" means given the chaos of the situation. 

"Templar ideal" is subjective, as well. I don't want a murderous lunatic in my group.

You did not finish DA2 did you?

I did actually. What are you getting at?

Anders was a murderous lunatic.

Well, yes, okay, a little at the end, but up until then he was my buddy and we bedazzled each other's diaries together at our pajama party sleepovers.

He almost killed an innocent woman in act 2.

We also bedazzled each other's fingernails.



Anders is such a silly bean he made mine magenta at first and I was like "Oh my GAWD you skank I said fuchsia!" and he laughed and I laughed and we were like "omg we have to tell Fenris about this, we HAVE to."

But in the end I think you can really see the beauty of his designs, he is SO talented at bedazzling I am so jealous!

[Chanda]

Nightwriter wrote...


We also bedazzled each other's fingernails.



Anders is such a silly bean he made mine magenta at first and I was like "Oh my GAWD you skank I said fuchsia!" and he laughed and I laughed and we were like "omg we have to tell Fenris about this, we HAVE to."

But in the end I think you can really see the beauty of his designs, he is SO talented at bedazzling I am so jealous!

I seriously wonder about the all the germs and bacteria nails like that have. Yeah, you can wash your hands after you go to the bathroom, but with nails like that, how clean are they getting, really?

Not to mention, if you put that much work into your nails, are you really going to be scrubbing them? Heaven forbid if one of those precious rhinestones fell off.

(Sorry, I work in a medical setting and I'm constantly reminded of things like that.)

Modifié par Chanda, 20 septembre 2013 - 11:50 .

[LolaLei]

Nightwriter wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

What I mean is someone who currently views themselves as being a templar and/or upholding the templar ideal and was formally part of the order at some point.  Different templars are going to have different opinions of precisely what "being a templar" means given the chaos of the situation. 

"Templar ideal" is subjective, as well. I don't want a murderous lunatic in my group.

You did not finish DA2 did you?

I did actually. What are you getting at?

Anders was a murderous lunatic.

Well, yes, okay, a little at the end, but up until then he was my buddy and we bedazzled each other's diaries together at our pajama party sleepovers.

He almost killed an innocent woman in act 2.

We also bedazzled each other's fingernails.



Anders is such a silly bean he made mine magenta at first and I was like "Oh my GAWD you skank I said fuchsia!" and he laughed and I laughed and we were like "omg we have to tell Fenris about this, we HAVE to."

But in the end I think you can really see the beauty of his designs, he is SO talented at bedazzling I am so jealous!

Fabulous! 

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, thank you.

Cullen is a fundamentally decent, scrupulous man who has repeatedly found himself in terrible situations that makes one question human nature. That he has maintained any sort of moral compass at all is impressive.

Cullen was decent at one point. Then he became a genocidal fiend. Whether that can be made up for is open to question.

Maybe.  He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict.  But I still put him well in front of Anders

Pure, complete conjecture. The absolute most you could get out of this is having them be a proportional amount compared to the mages killed in game, making the ratio... 3:60 or however many enemies there were.

We including abominations in that number?

[Adela]

Silfren wrote...



Yeah, uh, no.  I like Cullen just fine, he's one of my favorite characters.  I just think he was written very poorly at the end of DA2.   But sorry, the fact that I don't think he's a got a healthy view of mages or that I think he's not an example of what a templar should be does not mean I'm "trying to find every little flaw" or to make him "a super bad guy."   

I'm not sure you've even bothered paying attention to my posts about Cullen.  I've not once been hating on the character.  I've mentioned that he's not a moderate, and explained my reasons for thinking this.  From there I've complained about his poorly handled character arc.  It was never about me b*tching about how evil Cullen is, but about how his character development was lacking and didn't make sense to me.

Ah very well then, my bad I've misunderstood  what you were saying, but to be somewhat fair the game did had only one year in development and a lot of things weren't all that great.
So I guess maybe they didn't had enough time to develop  an NPC  that much into detail , as appose to an actual companion who should have more content then an NPC  and perhaps that may explain the  sudden change of heart at the end  without a smooth transition in between as to how he got there.

But if he will be in DAI I hope this time they will go  more in depth  with his character then in DAO and DA2

[Sister Goldring]

I think someone has already said this earlier but I think it bears repeating. This whole discussion here is what makes Cullen a really interesting character to include as a companion.

How have experiences in Origins and DA2 shaped him? What is he now, is he conflicted over Kirkwall and Meredith? What does he think the solution to the mage rebellion should be? What happened in Kirkwall after the Champions actions? How did the populace there react?

The devs cannot assume that their audience will have read Asunder (or even played DA2/Origins) they need to make sure the player has a comprehensive picture of the state of Thedas and the conflicts present in the world. Cullen as a Templar companion can personalise this conflict for us and can also give us necessary background information about the state of the Order and Kirkwall.

Also if Mages and Templars are going to be a 'thing' for Inquisition and it seems rather like they are in some capacity what with all those Red Templars running around burning villages, then I would very much like to be given some insight into their view of the conflict.

Cullen isn't the only way they can accomplish this but he seems to me to be a pretty good fit for the role and he's rather notoriously easy on the eye....so I'm all for his inclusion. I'd be pleased to have him in my party. 

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 21 septembre 2013 - 12:05 .

[Chanda]

ag99 wrote...

Silfren wrote...



Yeah, uh, no.  I like Cullen just fine, he's one of my favorite characters.  I just think he was written very poorly at the end of DA2.   But sorry, the fact that I don't think he's a got a healthy view of mages or that I think he's not an example of what a templar should be does not mean I'm "trying to find every little flaw" or to make him "a super bad guy."   

I'm not sure you've even bothered paying attention to my posts about Cullen.  I've not once been hating on the character.  I've mentioned that he's not a moderate, and explained my reasons for thinking this.  From there I've complained about his poorly handled character arc.  It was never about me b*tching about how evil Cullen is, but about how his character development was lacking and didn't make sense to me.

Ah very well then, my bad I've misunderstood  what you were saying, but to be somewhat fair the game did had only one year in development and a lot of things weren't all that great.
So I guess maybe they didn't had enough time to develop  an NPC  that much into detail , as appose to an actual companion who should have more content then an NPC  and perhaps that may explain the  sudden change of heart at the end  without a smooth transition in between as to how he got there.

But if he will be in DAI I hope this time they will go  more in depth  with his character then in DAO and DA2

If he is a companion, I hope we'd get to ask him about his past and get more of his perspective on what he experienced and went through, and how it shaped him as a person. Including before he was a Templar, what made him become a Templar, and what led him from there to the present time.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

You mean Elthina? What atrocity did she commit besides not picking a side?

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

You mean Elthina? What atrocity did she commit besides not picking a side?

She was Meredith's superior and responsible for her. She had a duty to rein the nutcase in and chose not to.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

You mean Elthina? What atrocity did she commit besides not picking a side?

She was Meredith's superior and responsible for her. She had a duty to rein the nutcase in and chose not to.

To be honest, with the idol in tow, it was probably only a matter of time before Meredith snapped, Elthina or no. However, I wouldn't blame Elthina for everything. She was in part responsible, but Meredith's actions were her own.

[jtav]

I'm inclined to cut DAO Cullen more slack than friend!Anders and less than friend!Anders. He's clearly suffering by Broken Circle. Anders should be summarily executed as a terrorist.

[Chanda]

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

Yeah, Orsino set a really great example for the mages that he was leading by turning into a monster and attacking Hawke, even when he/she might have been defending them. He really did a lot of good by doing that. People want to blame Cullen for following orders, look at what Orsino did on his own. He chose to become that monster, he didn't have to go that far.

[Nightwriter]

I found Cullen pretty sympathetic. I found Anders pretty sympathetic too until late Act 3. And I still hated killing him.

Elthina may have deserved to be held responsible for not taking her authority in hand at a critical time, but she didn't deserve to die.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 21 septembre 2013 - 12:27 .

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...
Elthina may have deserved to be held responsible for not taking her authority in hand at a critical time, but she didn't deserve to die.

And neither did everyone else that was in the chantry at the time.  Be they priests, lay brothers and sisters, men, women, and children there on business or just praying.

As Sebastian pointed out, he could have been in there himself if he hadn't been hanging with Hawke at the time.

[Hellion Rex]

Chanda wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe. He's seen the worst of both sides of the mage-templar conflict. But I still put him well in front of Anders

Anders is miles better. He only ever targeted one civilian, who was responsible for numerous atrocities herself. In addition to having his mind fogged by a spirit, whereas Cullen was always in control of himself.

We including abominations in that number?

We're including abominations who became such due to templar pressure, yes.

Yeah, Orsino set a really great example for the mages that he was leading by turning into a monster and attacking Hawke, even when he/she might have been defending them. He really did a lot of good by doing that. People want to blame Cullen for following orders, look at what Orsino did on his own. He chose to become that monster, he didn't have to go that far.

Both sides had issues. Orsino however responded only after Meredith fired the opening salvo, so to speak.

[Hellion Rex]

iakus wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Elthina may have deserved to be held responsible for not taking her authority in hand at a critical time, but she didn't deserve to die.

And neither did everyone else that was in the chantry at the time.  Be they priests, lay brothers and sisters, men, women, and children there on business or just praying.

As Sebastian pointed out, he could have been in there himself if he hadn't been hanging with Hawke at the time.

Meh, Sebastian could have been there too for all I cared. I didn't like him that much.