935 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

I usually saw two common arguments from the opposite side:

1. Only Elthina and the handful of templars you see in the brief cutscene were actually in the Chantry.

What we see rarely seems to be what happens.  I mean, do only three mages really surrender?  How come when Hawke and teh SUper Firends are carving through templars left and right, Orsino goes all "BLOOD MAGIC FOR EVERYONE!"  while my Hawke is going "Dude.  wtf?  We were doing just fine"  Pretty sure a building that size would logically have staff at work.  Even at night.

2. The Chantry is a military outpost. These claims that it is some kind of civilian structure -- which encompasses the arguments that the Chantry is an edifice of charity, aid for the poor, shelter, and generally a force of peace or order -- are false. It is the seat of the power that is oppressing mages and that's that.

Well the building is a seat of power, it's where the Grand Cleric of the region resides.  That would make this chantry the equivalent of a cathedral or something.  Not a military outpost, necessarilly (the templars are all in the Gallows) but a center for religious, and likely political power.

I generally shrug at 1 (it's true the cutscene shows only Elthina and templars, but it's really hard to believe the place is empty of all people but them) and disagree with 2.

Eeeeexcellent

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

middle path is make everyone a mage

It is inevitable, now that we know it is possible 

[Hellion Rex]

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

middle path is make everyone a mage

It is inevitable, now that we know it is possible 

You mean that we have theorized that it is possible. And the reverse is just as possible.

[Nightwriter]

An all-magic world sounds better than a no-magic world to me.

[LobselVith8]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It seemed to be closed to the public at night, as we see when Hawke enters the Kirkwall Chantry after hours during the prior Acts (as early as Act I, when we initially help Anders and Isabela). The scene does show templars and members of the Kirkwall Chantry with Elthina when it's destroyed.

Wasn't it more like sunset?  Does the Chantry have Vespers?  If so the place could have been packed. 

It was night. And the Chantry doesn't have civilians at night the different times Hawke broke in.

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

An all-magic world sounds better than a no-magic world to me.

Not with the Veil in the confition it's in

[Steelcan]

MasterScribe wrote...

I think we'll have an option between saving the world and LITERALLY destroying the world (which will not be importable to DA4). I doubt the writers want to have two radically different world states (such as all-magic and no-magic).

Ok not even Refuse managed that bad, the planets were still around at least

[Chanda]

Okay. So what about Keran as a Templar party member? Although if Hawke didn't take his side, he might not be able to become a Templar, but he's an option.

[Chanda]

I actually liked Templar Hugh, he was one of the recruits in DA2.



From the DA Wiki:

In Act 2 and 3 Hugh is seen wearing dark grey and silver Guardsmen Armor. If you talk to him in Act 3, he tells you that he dared to question one of Meredith's orders. As a result he is now a pariah. He complains that he was just saying what a great many are feeling.

Modifié par Chanda, 21 septembre 2013 - 01:40 .

[jtav]

Chanda wrote...

Okay. So what about Keran as a Templar party member? Although if Hawke didn't take his side, he might not be able to become a Templar, but he's an option.

After Anders and Leliana, dead should be dead. How about a new character, maybe a rogue? Vivienne's mirror, an iniate who took his/her vows just before the Red Templars started causing mayhem?

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm aware of where Cullen's anti-mage sentiment comes from. Thing is, though, it's irrelevant. The experience explains why he feels the way he does, but it has no bearing on whether his views are morally sound or that a black/white view of all mages is justified.

What the the timing between Cullen's statement and Uldred's torture of him?

[Chanda]

jtav wrote...

Chanda wrote...

Okay. So what about Keran as a Templar party member? Although if Hawke didn't take his side, he might not be able to become a Templar, but he's an option.

After Anders and Leliana, dead should be dead. How about a new character, maybe a rogue? Vivienne's mirror, an iniate who took his/her vows just before the Red Templars started causing mayhem?

If it's someone to mirror Vivienne, shouldn't it be someone with as much experience as she has? I don't think a new recruit would have much experience as a Templar. Vivienne was supposed to be the First Enchanter of her Circle, wasn't she? So the new Templar should be someone who can match up to that.

[Allan Schumacher]

Xilizhra wrote...

They'll be made Tranquil later on, it means nothing.

Are they made Tranquil by Cullen?

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 21 septembre 2013 - 01:53 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

Chanda wrote...

jtav wrote...

Chanda wrote...

Okay. So what about Keran as a Templar party member? Although if Hawke didn't take his side, he might not be able to become a Templar, but he's an option.

After Anders and Leliana, dead should be dead. How about a new character, maybe a rogue? Vivienne's mirror, an iniate who took his/her vows just before the Red Templars started causing mayhem?

If it's someone to mirror Vivienne, shouldn't it be someone with as much experience as she has? I don't think a new recruit would have much experience as a Templar. Vivienne was supposed to be the First Enchanter of her Circle, wasn't she? So the new Templar should be someone who can match up to that.

An old soldier type sounds ideal.  Oghren-like without the drunken goofballery, or Sten-like, but a native, with as much familiarty with the mage/templar war as Vivienne..

[Xilizhra]

If oyu really think Anders bomb only killed the Grand Cleric then you are naive. Also because of his actions every mage was forced to fight for their life, even if they did not want to thus their blood is on Anders because Anders knew Meredith would call for the Right.

So no, Anders is no miles better, Anders is a blight.

Meredith was going to do so anyway, Anders just made it happen at a more convenient time. Rather like Shepard blowing up the Bahak system.

Elthina may have deserved to be held responsible for not taking her authority in hand at a critical time, but she didn't deserve to die.

I don't believe that anyone deserves to die. But I don't mourn her. She was culpable for everything Meredith did.

This is my main issue with Anders. It takes a special kind of delusional arrogance to be convinced that you are so right and everyone else is so wrong that you force a war so that you can get your way even if the people you are "freeing" may not all want a war. Nobody appointed him spokesman for mages or single-handed arbitor of mage justice. Granted, I think this comes more from Justice than from Anders.

It's been effectively a war this whole time, with the mages under constant hostile occupation. To not desire freedom for one's compatriots here is either shilling for the Chantry, simple selfishness because they haven't killed or mindraped you yet, or defeatism based on the idea that the templars can't be beaten and should be compromised with. But the templars would never let go of their power willingly; this had to happen.

Both sides escalated into absurd stupidity. Mages with their "Oh, you're afraid we'll do blood magic? I'll show you blood magic!" and the templars with "OH no, they're doing blood magic! Now we really have to kill them!" Orsino went stupid, Meredith went nuts because of the idol but might have gone that far on her own, in time. And Anders made the whole thing worse by blowing up the Chantry.

Yet everyone is pointing fingers at Cullen. Poor guy.

Cullen is as bad as every templar except for the ones who are actively sadistic. You can't participate in genocide and just walk away; why do you think Mossad is still hunting down every death camp staff member they can find?

Are they made Tranquil by Cullen?

If he contributes, he shares the blame.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:02 .

[Allan Schumacher]

If he contributes, he shares the blame.

How does he contribute?

[Adela]

Xilizhra wrote...

Are they made Tranquil by Cullen?

If he contributes, he shares the blame.

Ah so by that logic if one mage resorts to blood magic  then that must mean all mages are to blame, that everyone of them will resort to blood magic no?

[BlueMagitek]

Nightwriter wrote...

An all-magic world sounds better than a no-magic world to me.

Long live the Technocracy bro.

[Xilizhra]

How does he contribute?

By helping to Annul the Circle.

Ah so by that logic if one mage resorts to blood magic then that must mean all mages are to blame, that everyone of them will resort to blood magic no?

No.