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[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Wow, an Anarchy thread that's still on-topic after the first page? This may be the Singleplayer board, but a little faith in BSN has been restored.

Redbelle wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...
ME3 is just a shooter with no attempt to pull the player deeper into it's world. Without safes, doors, terminals, etc etc... ME3 is superficial. It has lost it's RPG DNA that made it compelling as a story based shooter. Story in ME3 is now reliant on interactive cutscene's and those out of place vid sequences that never look quite as good as the game engine.

The minigames were compelling?

I refer you to the above poster.... but seriously...... Did you never hack a thing in the ME trilogy?

We had ME1's spatial awareness and timing tests.

And ME2's memory games against a time limit.

And ME3's....... oh.

Disagree. They were kinda cool the first few times, but after about the tenth or eleventh one, they got tedious as hell and I'm glad they're gone.

As for the terminals that added flavor text, those were neat, and I miss them.

Mass Effect 2 will always be my favorite, just wish I could dodge.

Modifié par FatherOfPearl, 23 septembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[AndyAK79]

 There's a lot of dislike for Mass Effect 3 on this forum, which is strange for a forum dedicated to Mass Effect 3 - a game now 18 months old. Have you folks really spent 18 months venting your spleen? Make love, not war guys.

The story was stronger than Mass Effect 2 and more persistent than Mass Effect 1 (how many of ME1's side missions were even remotely related to the main plot?). It had better scripting and direction than either of those games.

I also can't agree with some people's assessment that RPG's are somehow about stat and inventory management. RPG's are about immersion in a character - thats why they're called role playing games. All the micro-management is a throwback to a time when statistics and inventory were the only control over your character technology would allow - Not only does it not immerse you in a modern game, it actually takes you out of it. No other game goes to as much effort to immerse you in a character as Mass Effect. Mass Effect 3 doesn't just have "RPG DNA," it is an RPG.

As for the mini games - if you really want a break from the game, can't you just take ten minutes out and play something else?

Modifié par AndyAK79, 23 septembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[Dubozz]

ME3 wasn't the best. Especially if you finished it.

[Redbelle]

AndyAK79 wrote...


As for the mini games - if you really want a break from the game, can't you just take ten minutes out and play something else?

Or you could play Mass Effect that has them incorparated into the game model.

Seriously? Play something else? That's ignoring that mini game's were integral towards advancment. Whether that be gaining credits or unlocking upgrades. In the past it was a game design mechanic. In ME3 the mechanic of, successfully complete  this to get that.... shifted to. Spot this lying on the floor. Get it. That's angled towards a shooter's game design mechanic. Not an RPG action shooter.

Seriously.... If you don't want anything else to do, other than shoot stuff. There are other games you can play that's all about shooting. ME is a mish mash of genre's that's get's RPG status because of the people who designed it. And ever since ME1 they've been streamlining it to what it now is.

Stream lining's good. I prefer ME2 over ME1 because it handles itself better.

But ME3 is not as good as ME2 because it loses it's identity. It doesn't know what to be other than a shooter. And this is doubly bad considering they included extra modes of play. Action, RPG, Adventure.

If RPG meant RPG they'd have had hacking added to the mix. Action...... no hacking. More shooting. Styles of playing for all.

When I started playing in RPG mode, I thought I'd picked the wrong mode after a while.

[o Ventus]

AndyAK79 wrote...
 There's a lot of dislike for Mass Effect 3 on this forum, which is strange for a forum dedicated to Mass Effect 3

So?

It had better scripting and direction than either of those games.

Lolno.

I also can't agree with some people's assessment that RPG's are somehow about stat and inventory management. RPG's are about immersion in a character - thats why they're called role playing games. All the micro-management is a throwback to a time when statistics and inventory were the only control over your character technology would allow - Not only does it not immerse you in a modern game, it actually takes you out of it. No other game goes to as much effort to immerse you in a character as Mass Effect. Mass Effect 3 doesn't just have "RPG DNA," it is an RPG.

Tell that to Bioware, so keen on shoving in autodialogue for everything. Autodialogue that is the polar opposite of my typical dialogue pick.

As for the mini games - if you really want a break from the game, can't you just take ten minutes out and play something else?

What a cop-out answer.

[David7204]

Given that BioWare has explicitly stated they recognize the complaints with the autodialogue in ME 3 and that it's been a serious for players for a single game, proclaiming that BioWare is "so keen on shoving in autodialogue for everything" is monumentally stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 23 septembre 2013 - 12:30 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

Given that BioWare has explicitly stated they recognize the complaints with the autodialogue in ME 3 and that it's been a serious for players for a single game, proclaiming that BioWare is "so keen on shoving in autodialogue for everything" is monumentally stupid.

You must not have actually read that post.

Nothing new here.

[David7204]

Nope, I read the post. Was there something I missed that you would like to point out?

[spirosz]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Personal opinion is personal opinion.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Nope, I read the post. Was there something I missed that you would like to point out?

That your post isn't related to OP's post.  

[Steelcan]

no

[sharkboy421]

I disagree OP.

For me, ME2 was the best followed by ME1 with ME3 at the rear.  Now this is not to say 3 was a bad game; even though I do take some strong issues with it, ME3 is still a fantastic game.

But I just prefered 2's approach and its story.  It was wonderful to watch your crew go from a random collection of individuals into a cohesive unit.  The suicide mission is also my favorite moment of the ME trilogy.  While perhaps it was a bit too limited, I liked how "streamlined" the weapon selection and power skills were.  Every choice you made then really mattered and you couldn't just take every power like in 3.

And while I know I am in the minority, I enjoyed ME2's combat more.  While I agree 3's was much more fluid and fast-paced, all of the niches and specialities were gone.  In 2 you had a reason to swap weapons because of range and protection multipliers and enemy types while 3 those things were all removed.  I liked that I needed to strip away enemy shields before biotics would work.  I wish ME3 had included more of those elements from ME2 which felt very "rpg" to me; I was reminded a lot of picking the appropriate elemental damage for extra damage in Dragon Age for example.  I also intensely dislike the weight system as it is either super powerful or givng a heavy punishment.

However in the end, all three games are great and I love the series.  2 is my favorite but that does not stop the others from being great.

[AndyAK79]

o Ventus wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...
 There's a lot of dislike for Mass Effect 3 on this forum, which is strange for a forum dedicated to Mass Effect 3

So?

It had better scripting and direction than either of those games.

Lolno.

I also can't agree with some people's assessment that RPG's are somehow about stat and inventory management. RPG's are about immersion in a character - thats why they're called role playing games. All the micro-management is a throwback to a time when statistics and inventory were the only control over your character technology would allow - Not only does it not immerse you in a modern game, it actually takes you out of it. No other game goes to as much effort to immerse you in a character as Mass Effect. Mass Effect 3 doesn't just have "RPG DNA," it is an RPG.

Tell that to Bioware, so keen on shoving in autodialogue for everything. Autodialogue that is the polar opposite of my typical dialogue pick.

As for the mini games - if you really want a break from the game, can't you just take ten minutes out and play something else?

What a cop-out answer.

Whereas "so?" and "lolno" are responses of near-Shakespearean eloquence.

[o Ventus]

You think I'm going to pen an essay response to a series of statements that are so contrarian that they border on flamebait?

[zed888]

AndyAK79 wrote...

Okay, I think it's worth addressing these points individually;

"Vendetta offers to interface with the Catalyst and activate everything, but Shepard seems to think it would be a better idea to try wandering around the Citadel looking for a promising button to push."

This doesn't actually happen.

Thessia mission, just before the arrival of the masked villian... "Vendetta: I will interface with your systems and assist with the Catalyst to—"
http://www.youtube.c...JfWi1JVA#t=664  at about 11:05.

"...she wastes precious time and risks losing the Normandy by calling for the evac of a squadmate with some burns and maybe a broken ankle."

Whilst some burns and a broken ankle aren't that serious when shopping in Croyden they can easilly prove fatal when there are MASSIVE REAPERS EVERYWHERE!

Yep, they could certainly die.  My mistake for making the situation seem trivial.  But at that point nothing is more important than the run to the beam.  Nothing.  The squad is expendable and the Normandy is too important to risk.

"...she activates the biggest weapon of mass destruction ever made by following the directions of a REAPER HOLOGRAM, without even trying to contact edi or somebody from the Crucible project for technical help."

Technical help? He's trying to save the universe, not fiddling with his laptop. A ten minute conference call wouldn't make Shepard look very decisive and wouldn't make for a very exciting climax to the game either. Besides, what was the alternative? Leave and hope everything worked out for the best?

  How about "Edi- Shepard here.  I've got a Reaper hologram telling me the crucible is activated by blowing up this tube, etc etc etc...can you run a scan and tell me if this is even possible?"   I can't speak for anybody else's Shepard, but mine would have had to rule out a trap when a Reaper projection showed up to instruct her on the proper use of an anti-Reaper weapon.

Also, whilst I agree there are many  threads picking the ending apart I haven't been especially convinced by those I've read, and if you don't have time to repeat your favourites, I definately don't have time to look through 10'000 threads waiting to be convinced.

 Okay.  I just feel bad for people rolling their eyes at reading this stuff for the millionth time.  So leaving everything else aside, I'll just say I didn't buy the choices themselves. 

   Assuming the kid is offering the choices willingly, I don't buy that he would let Shepard choose destroy, which solves nothing from his point of view and wipes out the races he has "preserved" (although the games don't do anything to show that the races are preserved by being made into Reapers any more than eating bacon preserves pigs in human form).  Offering control doesn't seem necessary since it would be much easier to just stop the harvest and ask Shepard what to do with the Reapers.   And I sure didn't find it believable that any device could beam Shepard's "essence" through the relays to create cyborgs.

 Assuming the choices come from the designers of the crucible, synthesis is still very hard to take seriously without some long, quality techno-babble.  And I can't believe that at some point, instead of finishing the damn thing and deploying it, some ancient race instead decided to make the design much more complicated to give the final user choices other than destroy.  Waiting, I guess, for some wiser future Chosen One.  And even if they were correct in prophesying Shepard, suppose it had been Wrev or a random Blue Suns mook who made it up instead and picked blue? Nope, didn't buy it.  Just my opinion of course.  Enjoy your game.

[Redbelle]

sharkboy421 wrote...

I disagree OP.

For me, ME2 was the best followed by ME1 with ME3 at the rear.  Now this is not to say 3 was a bad game; even though I do take some strong issues with it, ME3 is still a fantastic game.

But I just prefered 2's approach and its story.  It was wonderful to watch your crew go from a random collection of individuals into a cohesive unit.  The suicide mission is also my favorite moment of the ME trilogy.  While perhaps it was a bit too limited, I liked how "streamlined" the weapon selection and power skills were.  Every choice you made then really mattered and you couldn't just take every power like in 3.

And while I know I am in the minority, I enjoyed ME2's combat more.  While I agree 3's was much more fluid and fast-paced, all of the niches and specialities were gone.  In 2 you had a reason to swap weapons because of range and protection multipliers and enemy types while 3 those things were all removed.  I liked that I needed to strip away enemy shields before biotics would work.  I wish ME3 had included more of those elements from ME2 which felt very "rpg" to me; I was reminded a lot of picking the appropriate elemental damage for extra damage in Dragon Age for example.  I also intensely dislike the weight system as it is either super powerful or givng a heavy punishment.

However in the end, all three games are great and I love the series.  2 is my favorite but that does not stop the others from being great.

In case it's relevant. A poll I did with a limited number of BSN'ers showed that the order of preference was, in order of the most appreciated first......

ME2 > ME1 > ME3

The pro's I gathered were

ME2 largely on grounds that it was more accesible to play than ME1 and had an engaging style of play and story telling in a dirty dozen, character driven narrative.

ME1 because it had lot's of stuff to engage the player.... And all it's section's, including the Mako, was built to be integral too, not a seperate bolt on addition, to the game. (Think they were talking about Virmire and the Beam run to the Citadel).

ME3 because it's combat was the best........ And because it resolved certain well loved characters......

[AndyAK79]

zed888 wrote...

Thessia mission, just before the arrival of the masked villian... "Vendetta: I will interface with your systems and assist with the Catalyst to—"
http://www.youtube.c...JfWi1JVA#t=664  at about 11:05.

Shepard doesn't decide to "wander about the citadel looking for a promising looking button to push"; Vendetta is prevented from interfacing with the catalyst by Kai Leng (Who is, as Vendetta points out, indoctinated, and therefore doing just what the Reapers want him to).

zed888 wrote...

   Assuming the kid is offering the choices willingly, I don't buy that he would let Shepard choose destroy, which solves nothing from his point of view and wipes out the races he has "preserved" (although the games don't do anything to show that the races are preserved by being made into Reapers any more than eating bacon preserves pigs in human form).  Offering control doesn't seem necessary since it would be much easier to just stop the harvest and ask Shepard what to do with the Reapers.   And I sure didn't find it believable that any device could beam Shepard's "essence" through the relays to create cyborgs.

 Assuming the choices come from the designers of the crucible, synthesis is still very hard to take seriously without some long, quality techno-babble.  And I can't believe that at some point, instead of finishing the damn thing and deploying it, some ancient race instead decided to make the design much more complicated to give the final user choices other than destroy.  Waiting, I guess, for some wiser future Chosen One.  And even if they were correct in prophesying Shepard, suppose it had been Wrev or a random Blue Suns mook who made it up instead and picked blue? Nope, didn't buy it.  Just my opinion of course.  Enjoy your game.

Shepard's presence isn't prophesised. The choices are created by the fact that it is Shepard who arrives (The Catalyst is more or less explicit in this). The choices would have been different if someone else had made it. Previous races only allowing destroy as an option assumes this is the best choice (on balance control is probably the best ending for the galaxy) As for your comments about synthesis... yeah alright, that's just magic fairy dust. But it's set in a world where people can manipulate gravity with their brains, so its hardly Ken Loach.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 23 septembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[P1tchB1ack]

I personally enjoyed Mass Effect 2 the most. When I replay the trilogy, I always get excited to hop onto the 2nd game. ME3 offered a lot of options dialogue wise, and ME2 had a lot of action. I think that each game had it's own feel, appealing to different types of players. The thing I love about the whole series was the fact that you could choose your own playstyle and each one fit like a glove if properly chosen.

[dreamgazer]

ME3 gets more hate than it deserves, but it sure as spit ain't the best.

[radishson]

ME3 is better in virtually every regard, IMO. There are quite a few narrative choices that were fleshed out very badly (Femshep romances, Cerberus indoc, everything about Kai leng, Geth lore..) and the ending was subpar but it is excellent in all other areas. The gameplay is fantastic and the leveling system is a large improvement from ME2s. All of the missions are entertaining and feel relevant - ME1 was slightly better on this, but ME2 had far less structure and didn't do a good job of creating the sort of atmosphere you'd expect from a suicide mission. This isn't to say I prefer ME3 by a wide margin, but it definitely feels the most cohesive. Oh, the multiplayer is great too.

I don't understand the hatred for auto dialogue. Watching the way conversations are structured in ME1 and 2 is painful. They're laughably awkward and immersion-breaking by any other standard. All ME3 did was flow conversations slightly better via expository dialogue - that is, the extra information they would've normally listed on the left side of the wheel. Taking out the neutral choices was definitely a mistake, but that's a separate issue.

I can't believe people are complaining about a lack of tedious mini-games, though. That's pretty much the epitome of fanbrat right-fighting lol.

[Zakuspec089]

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect 2 is the best in my book.

Modifié par Zakuspec089, 24 septembre 2013 - 01:11 .

[AndyAK79]

radishson wrote...

I don't understand the hatred for auto dialogue. Watching the way conversations are structured in ME1 and 2 is painful. They're laughably awkward and immersion-breaking by any other standard. All ME3 did was flow conversations slightly better via expository dialogue - that is, the extra information they would've normally listed on the left side of the wheel. Taking out the neutral choices was definitely a mistake, but that's a separate issue.

I can't believe people are complaining about a lack of tedious mini-games, though. That's pretty much the epitome of fanbrat right-fighting lol.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about the auto-dialogue. Also, in Mass Effect 1 very often the dialogue selected makes no difference anyway; Shepard always says the same thing (I haven't really noticed this in ME2). It really is just autodialogue hidden behind a choice wheel.

 The autodialogue in ME3 is fairly minimal - you still have significant input in pretty much every dialogue scene. 

The minigames add nothing to the game; they aren't even challenging. I never fluffed a single minigame in ME2, and on the rare occasions I did so on ME1 I could just paper over my mistake with omni-gel. The idea that you 'earned' loot from a locked item is just daft.

[voteDC]

AndyAK79 wrote...

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about the auto-dialogue. Also, in Mass Effect 1 very often the dialogue selected makes no difference anyway; Shepard always says the same thing (I haven't really noticed this in ME2). It really is just autodialogue hidden behind a choice wheel.

 The autodialogue in ME3 is fairly minimal - you still have significant input in pretty much every dialogue scene.

Illusion of choice is often as powerful as real choice.

Take another choice based game in "The Walking Dead." Ask most people about the choices and they'll be able to talk about them for ages, yet they don't amount to anything significant either. Episodes are always going to end pretty much the same way no matter what.

Yet that didn't bother people, they didn't see it, because TellTale had crafted such a wonderful illusion of choice.

That is what Mass Effect 1 pulled off so well, with Mass Effect 2 perhaps doing it even better, they offered the illusion of choice.

Did Mass Effect 3 have more or less auto-dialogue than the previous two games? I genuinely don't know.

What I do know though is that Mass Effect 3 made me notice that auto-dialogue, it shattered the illusion.

[o Ventus]

radishson wrote...

ME3 is better in virtually every regard, IMO.

Lol.

I don't understand the hatred for auto dialogue. Watching the way conversations are structured in ME1 and 2 is painful. They're laughably awkward and immersion-breaking by any other standard. All ME3 did was flow conversations slightly better via expository dialogue - that is, the extra information they would've normally listed on the left side of the wheel. Taking out the neutral choices was definitely a mistake, but that's a separate issue.

The problem isn't that autodialogue is there, it's that it pervades the scene and takes Shepard out of character from how the player molds him or her.

[Vapaa]

o Ventus wrote...

The problem isn't that autodialogue is there, it's that it pervades the scene and takes Shepard out of character from how the player molds him or her.

That also happens in ME1, only that in ME1 I have 3 out of character choices and a very static and awkward conversation

ME1 runs on the illusion of choice, but you have the same amount of choice that actually matters in ME3