So,I've been thinking recently. In the singleplayer campaign,Shepard can take bonus powers,which include Barrier and Fortification. What if Shepard were a Sentinel? Would the effects of Tech Armour stack with Fortification or Barrier? The only context I have for this is the Geth Trooper's Hunter Mode being able to run in tandem with Fortification,but they perform opposite functions,while Tech Armour and Barrier/Fortification perform an identical function.
Anyone have any experience with this? Or will I be conducting an experiment for everyone's pleasure on Insanity?
The Immortal Sentinel: Tech Armour and Barrier/Fortification
Débuté par
Ridstar
, sept. 20 2013 07:22
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#2
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 08:35
cap and gown
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According to the wiki, the damage reduction effects stack. It claims that you can reach all the way up to 80% damage reduction. It is not clear if the cool down penalties stack as well. I have never wanted to find out.
#3
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 12:07
RedCaesar97
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cap and gown wrote...
According to the wiki, the damage reduction effects stack. It claims that you can reach all the way up to 80% damage reduction. It is not clear if the cool down penalties stack as well. I have never wanted to find out.
Yes, the damage reduction effects of Tech Armor and Fortification/Barrier/Defense Matrix stack. Tech Armor can provide up to +50% damage reduction, Fortification can provide up to +40% damage reduction, and Barrier/Defense Matrix can provide up to +30% damage reduction.
NOTE 1: At launch, Tech Armor provided up to +50% damage reduction and Barrier/Fortification/Defense Matrix provided up to +30% damage reduction.
Yes, the cooldown penalties stack as well. By default, Tech Armor and Fortification provide -50% cooldown penalites, while Barrier and Defense Matrix provide -60% cooldown penalties. Each of those powers can decrease the cooldown penalty by 30% (so -20% or -30% cooldown).
NOTE 2: At launch, Tech Armor cooldown penalty was -80%, while Fortification was -60%. Barrier and Defense Matrix have remained unchanged.
Some additional information you may find useful:
1) Sentinel - Biotic Bomber and Walking Armory by Kronner. This was written back before the changes to Tech Armor and Fortification.
2) Some Sentinel cooldowns with Tech Armor and Barrier/Fortification/Defense Matrix by swk3000. This thread shows you can stack damage reduction with Tech Armor and Barrier/Fortification/Defense Matrix and still have good cooldowns as long as you travel light (about +200% weapon weight). So as long as you have a good, light gun, you will not notice the cooldown penalties all that much.
Note that this thread was written before the changes to Tech Armor and Fortification.
To understand how and why you can still have good cooldowns while stacking two defensive powers, see the power recharge formula here.
3) Sentinel completely immune to damage. YouTube video by me showing that with the right evolutions, the Sentinel can stand in front of gunfire and not take any damage.
#4
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 12:49
cap and gown
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I noticed on your video that you were using Heavy Melee to get the last little bit of damage reduction. Would not Reave work as well? Tech Armor + Fortification + Reave should get you to 100%+ damage reduction.
Edit: NVM, you can't have both Fortification and Reeve since you only get one bonus power. My bad.
Edit: NVM, you can't have both Fortification and Reeve since you only get one bonus power. My bad.
Modifié par cap and gown, 20 septembre 2013 - 12:58 .
#5
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 02:29
capn233
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Sentinel w/ Fortification is probably one of the strongest characters / builds for SP.
#6
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 05:22
Jaun Shepard
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Yeah but infiltrators will always remain the strongest.capn233 wrote...
Sentinel w/ Fortification is probably one of the strongest characters / builds for SP.
#7
Posté 20 septembre 2013 - 11:28
Ridstar
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Alright,just finished up on Mars with an imported ME2 character. He was originally an Adept (love the combos),but I cross-spec'd over to Sentinel for the sake of the experiment. My findings confirm what everyone is saying here: Tech Armour stacks with Barrier,and,presumably,Fortification and Defense Matrix. This includes the cooldown penalty,but I don't care about that. The powers will be evolved for raw power in lieu of cooldown,since it'll just be wasted potential that way.
Playing on Insanity,I only went down once,and that was only in the initial engagement,after picking up the Mantis,which I've used throughout the mission as an Alpha Strike and to remove Guardians. By the time I hit the tram,I got a good rhythm down,with a Katana blast to the face followed up by a heavy melee. If they live,I just beat them to death. Tougher enemies may need another blast to the face,but that's yet to be seen.
Finally,what I went in with: I maxed out Fitness and Tech Armour,both for protection. On import,I selected Barrier as my bonus power,which was also maxed out in favour of durability. With this degree of toughness,I've been able to wade into thick firefights,and only use cover as a slalom to keep mobile,but allow my shields to begin recharging. The auto turret was also a pleasant experience,as I only needed to stick to cover for the initial hallway,after which I made it to the security room at a dead sprint. Shields didn't drop below two thirds,so I might've made it to tge security station with a third shields if I simply ran from start to finish.
I've been evolving Offensive Mastery for weapon damage,or at least INTENDED to,but it seems to revolve around powers instead. Such a shame. All other powers have been ignored so far,but the game stuck a point into Throw out of the gate,so I think I'll use that and evolve it into Double Throw for keeping the herd thinned out. I'll be going after grenades first,however,since they are a natural compliment to any weapon-heavy character. Currently,I'm packing a shotgun,assault rifle,and sniper rifle,all for obvious reasons. My exact weapons are Mantis (X-Barrel),Katana (Hi-Cal,Shredder),and Vindicator.
Planned armour pieces will be all about durability once more,but I'm torn between shield recharge and flat shield strength. Planned endgame equipment is the Black Widow/Javelin,Claymore,and Phaseton/Revenant.
While the Black Widow weighs a metric f-tonne,it has three shots,and hits harder than the Mantis,which appeals to my desire to thin the crowd out a bit before my approach,while the Javelin will let me put the hurt onto priority targets,like Atlases and Banshees. Both are likely to be modified for damage and penetration. Also,the only singleplayer DLC I'm packing is Levithan. Does the sniper AP barrel exist there?
The Claymore is an obvious pick for my style,as I have the durability to reload while taking fire,and,if memory serves,it's the single hardest hitting weapon,shot for shot,in the game. IF the victim survives the face full of buckshot from that,then they certainly won;t survive the heavy melee afterwards. It'll be modified for raw damage,since I'll be engaging from "Shotgun Rhinoplasty" ranges anyways. So that means it'll be getting High Caliber Barrel and Shredder.
The Phaseton and Revenant fill near-identical roles in my experience. The Phaseton,while packing less ammo and stopping power,is much more accurate,and less intense recoil. The Revenant trades that stability for ammo and power. This distinction gives me some pause,as they are both magnificent weapons in their own ways,but both excel at suppression. Either way,they'll be used to close the distance,and I likely won't be aiming while I'm advancing. I usually play to run miles with the strengths of my equipment while simply adapting to the shortcomings,but this may require a change to my approach. What do you think?
Finally,I'll need allies that can compliment and cover me as I do my thing. Since I'll only be using powers infrequently,and Insanity has a 3.whatever multiplier on combo damage,I'm leaning towards my usual squad,Team Dextro,since they both have Tech abilities that they'll be able to Burst off of...I hope. I rarely play Tech classes,so correct me if I'm wrong.
Playing on Insanity,I only went down once,and that was only in the initial engagement,after picking up the Mantis,which I've used throughout the mission as an Alpha Strike and to remove Guardians. By the time I hit the tram,I got a good rhythm down,with a Katana blast to the face followed up by a heavy melee. If they live,I just beat them to death. Tougher enemies may need another blast to the face,but that's yet to be seen.
Finally,what I went in with: I maxed out Fitness and Tech Armour,both for protection. On import,I selected Barrier as my bonus power,which was also maxed out in favour of durability. With this degree of toughness,I've been able to wade into thick firefights,and only use cover as a slalom to keep mobile,but allow my shields to begin recharging. The auto turret was also a pleasant experience,as I only needed to stick to cover for the initial hallway,after which I made it to the security room at a dead sprint. Shields didn't drop below two thirds,so I might've made it to tge security station with a third shields if I simply ran from start to finish.
I've been evolving Offensive Mastery for weapon damage,or at least INTENDED to,but it seems to revolve around powers instead. Such a shame. All other powers have been ignored so far,but the game stuck a point into Throw out of the gate,so I think I'll use that and evolve it into Double Throw for keeping the herd thinned out. I'll be going after grenades first,however,since they are a natural compliment to any weapon-heavy character. Currently,I'm packing a shotgun,assault rifle,and sniper rifle,all for obvious reasons. My exact weapons are Mantis (X-Barrel),Katana (Hi-Cal,Shredder),and Vindicator.
Planned armour pieces will be all about durability once more,but I'm torn between shield recharge and flat shield strength. Planned endgame equipment is the Black Widow/Javelin,Claymore,and Phaseton/Revenant.
While the Black Widow weighs a metric f-tonne,it has three shots,and hits harder than the Mantis,which appeals to my desire to thin the crowd out a bit before my approach,while the Javelin will let me put the hurt onto priority targets,like Atlases and Banshees. Both are likely to be modified for damage and penetration. Also,the only singleplayer DLC I'm packing is Levithan. Does the sniper AP barrel exist there?
The Claymore is an obvious pick for my style,as I have the durability to reload while taking fire,and,if memory serves,it's the single hardest hitting weapon,shot for shot,in the game. IF the victim survives the face full of buckshot from that,then they certainly won;t survive the heavy melee afterwards. It'll be modified for raw damage,since I'll be engaging from "Shotgun Rhinoplasty" ranges anyways. So that means it'll be getting High Caliber Barrel and Shredder.
The Phaseton and Revenant fill near-identical roles in my experience. The Phaseton,while packing less ammo and stopping power,is much more accurate,and less intense recoil. The Revenant trades that stability for ammo and power. This distinction gives me some pause,as they are both magnificent weapons in their own ways,but both excel at suppression. Either way,they'll be used to close the distance,and I likely won't be aiming while I'm advancing. I usually play to run miles with the strengths of my equipment while simply adapting to the shortcomings,but this may require a change to my approach. What do you think?
Finally,I'll need allies that can compliment and cover me as I do my thing. Since I'll only be using powers infrequently,and Insanity has a 3.whatever multiplier on combo damage,I'm leaning towards my usual squad,Team Dextro,since they both have Tech abilities that they'll be able to Burst off of...I hope. I rarely play Tech classes,so correct me if I'm wrong.
#8
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 12:29
cap and gown
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How useful can Team Dextro be against Reapers? Lots of armor, not so many shields. Tali could sabotage the Cannibals and Garrus could ignite them. But what about Brutes, Banshees, Ravagers and Harvesters? Now Garrus/EDI might compliment each other for combos. EDI with area incinerate, Garrus with Chain Overload and Squad armor piercing. Generally, though I prefer a biotic team against Reapers (Kaiden/Javik, Liara only with the most careful management since Ravagers seem to be drawn to her like bees to honey) A tech team against Geth, and a mix against Cerberus.
Modifié par cap and gown, 21 septembre 2013 - 12:31 .
#9
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 12:46
Ridstar
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Well,since I don't have From Ashes,because a friend of mine regretted dropping the money on it (which is a feat,by the way),so Javik is out. I figured Team Dextro because I'll be the primary damage dealer. Banshees seem to be immune to Biotic Explosions (much to my chagrin as my Explosion-Dependent Adept),and I'll always be equipped with three powerful weapons,and my squadmates will be armed with as powerful weapons as I can manage them. Garrus' Squad AP Ammo can help bridge the gap for armoured enemies,and Barriers are actually weak to Concussive Shot,with Proximity Mine being able to pull universal duty.
Tali is,in my experience,very handy with her weapons,and her drones are extremely versatile,while Energy Drain gives her very surprising durability. Her Sabotage can be painfully effective on any enemy with a gun,and can turn an Atlas into a formidable,if temporary ally. While true,she lacks any armour-defeating powers,she has a very powerful support role,and her near-universal Sabotage power can be used to set up Tech Bursts,which Garrus can fire off with Overload or Concussive Shot.
Of course,with the Tech Bursts,I know little about them,and the wiki leaves me confused. I'm just working on the assumption that they're tech flavoured Biotic Explosions.
Tali is,in my experience,very handy with her weapons,and her drones are extremely versatile,while Energy Drain gives her very surprising durability. Her Sabotage can be painfully effective on any enemy with a gun,and can turn an Atlas into a formidable,if temporary ally. While true,she lacks any armour-defeating powers,she has a very powerful support role,and her near-universal Sabotage power can be used to set up Tech Bursts,which Garrus can fire off with Overload or Concussive Shot.
Of course,with the Tech Bursts,I know little about them,and the wiki leaves me confused. I'm just working on the assumption that they're tech flavoured Biotic Explosions.
#10
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 01:16
known_hero
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cap and gown wrote...
How useful can Team Dextro be against Reapers? Lots of armor, not so many shields. Tali could sabotage the Cannibals and Garrus could ignite them. But what about Brutes, Banshees, Ravagers and Harvesters? Now Garrus/EDI might compliment each other for combos. EDI with area incinerate, Garrus with Chain Overload and Squad armor piercing. Generally, though I prefer a biotic team against Reapers (Kaiden/Javik, Liara only with the most careful management since Ravagers seem to be drawn to her like bees to honey) A tech team against Geth, and a mix against Cerberus.
Tali's sabotage(tech vulnerablity) combined with Garrus' proxy mine will make quick work of armored enemies.
#11
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 01:29
capn233
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Tali isn't ideal against Reapers or Cerberus, but is serviceable if you invest in Sabotage for stuns, setting up Tech Bursts, and extra tech damage. You can also try Energy Drain against shields.
Garrus is one of my most used squad members. If you are running as a Sentinel, focus on using Overload to setup tech bursts and strip shields, Concussive Shot to detonate Cryo Explosions or Tech Bursts, and Proxi Mine for debuff on large targets.
Banshees are not immune to Biotic Explosions, but they are able to block powers with time of flight when they use their "hand of denial." When they are hopping you can always hit them.
Garrus is one of my most used squad members. If you are running as a Sentinel, focus on using Overload to setup tech bursts and strip shields, Concussive Shot to detonate Cryo Explosions or Tech Bursts, and Proxi Mine for debuff on large targets.
Banshees are not immune to Biotic Explosions, but they are able to block powers with time of flight when they use their "hand of denial." When they are hopping you can always hit them.
#12
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 05:29
SirValeq
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Is Barrier detonation damage really so low in SP compared to MP like the wiki says?
#13
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 06:11
RedCaesar97
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iLikeBWgames wrote...
Is Barrier detonation damage really so low in SP compared to MP like the wiki says?
Base damage in single player: 90
Base damage in multiplayer: 500
#14
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 06:16
SirValeq
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That's unfortunate. I guess it's only usable for the lift effect. Thanks.
#15
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 08:42
Ridstar
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Personally,it boggles my mind that people want to actually detonate their armour abilities. 40% off of ALL incoming non-sync damage is a huge deal,and in singleplayer,you can get as high as 70 or 80% reduction. Such durability is amazingly powerful,so why render yourself vulnerable? You can accomplish the same thing with a single Biotic Explosion or a well-deployed firearm,while still being the toughest thing out there. The Sentinel's shtick isn't to nuke everything. It's to be an immovable monolith. Blasting the protection seems to exist solely to stagger nearby enemies so you can retreat and kill them in relative safety while you seek cover. You know,an emergency escape plan?
#16
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 08:51
cap and gown
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Ridstar wrote...
Personally,it boggles my mind that people want to actually detonate their armour abilities. 40% off of ALL incoming non-sync damage is a huge deal,and in singleplayer,you can get as high as 70 or 80% reduction. Such durability is amazingly powerful,so why render yourself vulnerable? You can accomplish the same thing with a single Biotic Explosion or a well-deployed firearm,while still being the toughest thing out there. The Sentinel's shtick isn't to nuke everything. It's to be an immovable monolith. Blasting the protection seems to exist solely to stagger nearby enemies so you can retreat and kill them in relative safety while you seek cover. You know,an emergency escape plan?
Apparently you haven't listened to that Turian at the Silver Sun Arcade.
Marauder? Overload then tech armor! Brute? Warp then tech armor! Tech Armor! Tech Armor! Tech Armor!Srsly, though, there are times when exploding the armor is fine as long as you have very fast cool downs. I think I generally have a little over one second cool down. So I find it is easier to just tech armor husks than waste a longer cool down (like chain overload) on them. And as you point out, it can be useful in an emergency, like the one time a Rampart Mech was about to omni-blade my butt and tech armor managed to stagger it so I could have time to redeploy.
#17
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 08:53
RedCaesar97
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The only armor ability worth detonating is Defense Matrix for restoring your shields instantly.Ridstar wrote...
Personally,it boggles my mind that people want to actually detonate their armour abilities.
You could also make a case for detonating Fortification if you are trying for an off-the-wall melee-only playstyle.
Detonating Barrier will lift enemies, but it also puts you on cooldown which means you have to wait to detonate those enemies. Vanguard could do it with Nova. But there are a lot of better options for detonating with Nova than using Barrier.
Basically, it is about trying a different -- and possibly fun -- playstyle, regardless if another build or playstyle is better or more effective.
#18
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 09:18
Ribosome
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The idea of a Tech Armor+Fortification Sentinel piqued my interest and I just started a playthrough with it last night. Definitely extremely powerful but not in such a way that I find it boring. Abusing cryo explosions and warp bombs with minimal need for cover is exciting stuff.
Would it be a wise idea to take shatter at rank 5 for Garrus and Ashley's Concussive Shot? Or is it not worth trading off for a slightly longer cooldown? I have yet to spare the points for the higher ranks at the moment but that's what I plan on leveling up next. I've never tried shatter so I have no idea whether or not it's effective.
Also, I find tech armor detonation to be a lot of fun! I opted for the damage+radius evolution at rank 4 just because I like having it for surprise melee attackers that might've snuck behind me, since I am fighting in the open fairly often, or just to have an extra attack in CQC. The trade-off for an extra 5% DR doesn't really bother me
Would it be a wise idea to take shatter at rank 5 for Garrus and Ashley's Concussive Shot? Or is it not worth trading off for a slightly longer cooldown? I have yet to spare the points for the higher ranks at the moment but that's what I plan on leveling up next. I've never tried shatter so I have no idea whether or not it's effective.
Also, I find tech armor detonation to be a lot of fun! I opted for the damage+radius evolution at rank 4 just because I like having it for surprise melee attackers that might've snuck behind me, since I am fighting in the open fairly often, or just to have an extra attack in CQC. The trade-off for an extra 5% DR doesn't really bother me
Modifié par ViaNegativia, 21 septembre 2013 - 09:27 .
#19
Posté 21 septembre 2013 - 09:29
capn233
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Shatter is worth it if you are using Cryo Blast, or if someone is priming with Cryo Ammo. Otherwise just go recharge speed, since that evolution has a decent bonus.
Tech Armor detonation fairly fun. And if you have stacked with Fortification, you will still have some DR even with TA off, and Fortification increases the damage of TA detonations. I would recommend giving up 5% DR from TA and taking Damage and Radius at Rank 4 if you want to detonate it frequently.
Tech Armor detonation fairly fun. And if you have stacked with Fortification, you will still have some DR even with TA off, and Fortification increases the damage of TA detonations. I would recommend giving up 5% DR from TA and taking Damage and Radius at Rank 4 if you want to detonate it frequently.
