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#251
izmirtheastarach

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Litos456 wrote...

And how exactly do you know that?

And was I ever demanding anything? I am only expressing my opinion on this type of situation, and hoping that Bioware handles it that way. I wast telling bioware to do this or that, I was saying what I feel in my opinion is wrong.


I do not understand your argument. If Bioware wanted to charge you 30 dollars a day to play the game, they have every right to do so. It would be stupid, and no one would buy it, but that is their right.

How is this different? Thay can charge anything the want for anything they want. We live in a free society.

#252
dirtypaulie

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ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

While it was a believable story for Shale to have been cut from DA:O and added to the game by the DLC team: Having their very next game have the exact same DLC format with a bonus party member pretty much proves that they just took something out of the game and labeled it DLC to prevent used game sales.


Not neccessarily, They did say the game barely fit on 2 disks

#253
Squallypo

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

And how exactly do you know that?

And was I ever demanding anything? I am only expressing my opinion on this type of situation, and hoping that Bioware handles it that way. I wast telling bioware to do this or that, I was saying what I feel in my opinion is wrong.


I do not understand your argument. If Bioware wanted to charge you 30 dollars a day to play the game, they have every right to do so. It would be stupid, and no one would buy it, but that is their right.

How is this different? Thay can charge anything the want for anything they want. We live in a free society.

does the goverment charge us for breath ? or live? oh i see what i did there <_<

#254
muse108

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This news is concerning. I am not a fan of DLC, but putting large parts of the core game into the DLC, even if its free? Thats just wrong.

#255
Guaritor

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Litos456 wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Why does everyone think this is just stuff took out of the game? Lets not forget ME2 went gold before xmas so they must have been doing something in that time,


Because... this is clearly made prior to it going gold. Mako is a unique distinctive feature about mass effect. Obviously the hammerhead was made wayy back. Besides it doesnt matter when the game goes gold, it matters when it releases. They can't just make excuses saying we went gold during christmas and then made some new stuff but that doesnt matter because we made that after we said it went gold so we can sell it for an extra price. No, that's wrong.

Squallypo wrote...

the hammerhead SHOULD BE AND MUST BE a part of the core game, its like saying for mass effect 1 we taking out the mako.


this



So because it couldn't fit on TWO discs worth of content your getting... your still entitled to get it for free and not pay BW for all the extra work they did?  All this DLC stuff costs money to make, to test, programmers and writers and artists cost money...

#256
Xerxes52

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Sweet, we do get the Hammerhead!



After hearing some rumors about it being cut I was starting to worry.

#257
izmirtheastarach

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muse108 wrote...

This news is concerning. I am not a fan of DLC, but putting large parts of the core game into the DLC, even if its free? Thats just wrong.


These statements keep getting made without any real explanation.

How is it wrong? How does it even effect you? This whole argument is ridiculous.

#258
RickmanUK

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Squallypo wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

And how exactly do you know that?

And was I ever demanding anything? I am only expressing my opinion on this type of situation, and hoping that Bioware handles it that way. I wast telling bioware to do this or that, I was saying what I feel in my opinion is wrong.


I do not understand your argument. If Bioware wanted to charge you 30 dollars a day to play the game, they have every right to do so. It would be stupid, and no one would buy it, but that is their right.

How is this different? Thay can charge anything the want for anything they want. We live in a free society.

does the goverment charge us for breath ? or live? oh i see what i did there <_<


..... Frankly the government.. Given a way too measure how much you use more then likly WOULD charge for Breath. But then.... Maybe that's the Cynic in me Talking....

#259
Guaritor

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crimzontearz wrote...


Guaritor wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

This is ridiculous. If they make us pay for the post-day one dlc I will be PISSED.
Why? All this stuff needed to be in the original game. It's ALREADY MADE AND DONE. They'll just wait a bit to release it for DLC. Now I'm ok with it if they're doing this to lower used game sales, BUT if they offer the DLC for a price that will be just wrong. Just, wrong. Maybe later, BIG dlc they can offer for a small price that is developed AFTER the game's release. But offering the ones that are already made (the hammerhead one specifically) is just wrong and merciless.


Just because its made and done, doesn't mean it should have been in the game. For one, they filled two discs... space is an issue. Secondly, there is a point where they just can't add more content to the game if they want to get it mass produced and to stores on time.  Anything worked on after that isn't part of the original game.


but ethically speaking it should be offered for free if it was made on the same budget


That budget churned out 1 disc more of content then is required for a game... im pretty sure they satisfied any arbitrary ethical dilemma you can come up with.

#260
crimzontearz

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

Malastare- wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Guaritor wrote...

Just because its made and done, doesn't mean it should have been in the game. For one, they filled two discs... space is an issue. Secondly, there is a point where they just can't add more content to the game if they want to get it mass produced and to stores on time.  Anything worked on after that isn't part of the original game.


but ethically speaking it should be offered for free if it was made on the same budget


And that fact that it still isn't ready is a good indication that it wasn't made on the same budget.  Oh, and there is the repeated statements from Bioware that DLC is not produced by the same team that produced the main game.


And it doesn't matter if it was. Same budget? What the heck does that have to do with anything?


oh for the love of.....

ok......

here's the example. You give me 1000$ to make you a sword, the 1000$ is supposed to cover labor, materials and my personal expenses.

I end up taking that money and I make you the sword but when you come and get it I' say "well...for reason X I also used the mone you gave me to make you this lovely scabbard.......I COULD give it to you for free since it was within the original amount of money we budgeted BUT...I think I'll sell it to you for an extra 100$"

do you think that is AT ALL ethical? Sure I am entitled to do that because we only negotiated a sword but what I am asking you is was is the right thing to do or was it just me trying to get extra money?


would things change if I said "I made you this sword for 1000$ (of course telling the truth having exhausted the budged  that we agreed upon) yet for an extra 100$ I can also make you a scabbard to go with it"

#261
SethSteiner

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

muse108 wrote...

This news is concerning. I am not a fan of DLC, but putting large parts of the core game into the DLC, even if its free? Thats just wrong.


These statements keep getting made without any real explanation.

How is it wrong? How does it even effect you? This whole argument is ridiculous.


You`re less able to sell the game, is it so difficult to understand this? Games loose value through this whole DLC ****.

#262
izmirtheastarach

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RickmanUK wrote...

..... Frankly the government.. Given a way too measure how much you use more then likly WOULD charge for Breath. But then.... Maybe that's the Cynic in me Talking....


Any we could stand up and declare it morally wrong. That would be fine. But this is a for-profit publically traded company. They can charge whatever they want. That is the way things woek.

#263
FreezaSama

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MasterMenace wrote...

IGN: "Those who purchase the title new will receive exclusive access to the
'The Cerberus Network,' an in-game pipeline for downloadable content,
as well as daily messages and news on upcoming releases for the game at
no additional cost
. Acess requires players to input a single-use unlock
code that comes included with all new copies, retail and digital
versions."


Wait a second... does this mean people who don't buy a new copy, will essentially have to buy DLC in order to buy DLC? That's stupid, and more than a little bit fishy. I can sense EA's hand in this.

Also, a question. I generally don't leave my console connected to Xbox Live all the time. I usually only run the cable to the jack when I want to download something, then it's back offline. That isn't going to break anything if I download the Cerberus Network thing-a-majig, will it?

#264
izmirtheastarach

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crimzontearz wrote...

here's the example. You give me 1000$ to make you a sword, the 1000$ is supposed to cover labor, materials and my personal expenses.

I end up taking that money and I make you the sword but when you come and get it I' say "well...for reason X I also used the mone you gave me to make you this lovely scabbard.......I COULD give it to you for free since it was within the original amount of money we budgeted BUT...I think I'll sell it to you for an extra 100$"

do you think that is AT ALL ethical? Sure I am entitled to do that because we only negotiated a sword but what I am asking you is was is the right thing to do or was it just me trying to get extra money?


would things change if I said "I made you this sword for 1000$ (of course telling the truth having exhausted the budged  that we agreed upon) yet for an extra 100$ I can also make you a scabbard to go with it"


But it isn't YOUR money. It's EA's money. They gave it to Bioware to make the game. And then they are seeling the game to you. Unless your claim is that your $50 is not going to get you a game of suffient size to be worth that money.

#265
Malastare-

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Squallypo wrote...

you are missing the point here, but okay


I don't think I am.  You said that "the hammerhead SHOULD BE AND MUST BE a part of the core game" as if your emotions generate truth.

This is your opinion of what the game should include.  Many people don't see vehicular exploration as a core game requirement (more of the opposite, really).  Furthermore, your belief seems to be based off the idea that the Hammerhead was finished and included in the game then removed to make DLC (evidenced by your quote: "so you saying we need to pay for something that was already done and 
decided to be taken away from the disk...").

Not only are you ignoring Bioware's statements that they don't do this, but it ignores the fact that the content is obviously not already finished (or it would be Day 1 DLC), proposes that your ideas of the story and style of the game are the correct ones, and assumes that Bioware has some sort of provider/client relationship with you right now.

Understand this: Your relationship with Bioware is very simple:  In a week, they are going to release a pair of DVDs. Either you buy them, or you don't.  Once you do that, they have zero requirement to provide you with anything more.  They didn't have to tell you that the Hammerhead even existed.  They certainly aren't required to give it to you, absolutely aren't required to give it to you for free, and your sense of entitlement would have to be herculean to believe that they have to fit it into the core game.  Now, Bioware is one of the great software makers, so they're actually goinig to give you the Hammerhead, and unless we're all reading things wrong, they're giving it to you for free. 

Be happy.

Be very, very happy.  I can guarantee you don't understand how much that bit of DLC cost Bioware.

#266
Squallypo

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Malastare- wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

you are missing the point here, but okay


I don't think I am.  You said that "the hammerhead SHOULD BE AND MUST BE a part of the core game" as if your emotions generate truth.

This is your opinion of what the game should include.  Many people don't see vehicular exploration as a core game requirement (more of the opposite, really).  Furthermore, your belief seems to be based off the idea that the Hammerhead was finished and included in the game then removed to make DLC (evidenced by your quote: "so you saying we need to pay for something that was already done and 
decided to be taken away from the disk...").

Not only are you ignoring Bioware's statements that they don't do this, but it ignores the fact that the content is obviously not already finished (or it would be Day 1 DLC), proposes that your ideas of the story and style of the game are the correct ones, and assumes that Bioware has some sort of provider/client relationship with you right now.

Understand this: Your relationship with Bioware is very simple:  In a week, they are going to release a pair of DVDs. Either you buy them, or you don't.  Once you do that, they have zero requirement to provide you with anything more.  They didn't have to tell you that the Hammerhead even existed.  They certainly aren't required to give it to you, absolutely aren't required to give it to you for free, and your sense of entitlement would have to be herculean to believe that they have to fit it into the core game.  Now, Bioware is one of the great software makers, so they're actually goinig to give you the Hammerhead, and unless we're all reading things wrong, they're giving it to you for free. 

Be happy.

Be very, very happy.  I can guarantee you don't understand how much that bit of DLC cost Bioware.


this whole thing reminds me of tales of vesperia

#267
Malastare-

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muse108 wrote...

This news is concerning. I am not a fan of DLC, but putting large parts of the core game into the DLC, even if its free? Thats just wrong.


Er.

If it's in DLC, then it's obviously not part of the "core game".

#268
Litos456

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Stoko981 wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

Stoko981 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

the hammerhead SHOULD BE AND MUST BE a part of the core game, its like saying for mass effect 1 we taking out the mako.

Everyone hated the Mako. This way, in the "core game", we get dropped off right
at the interesting parts of planets. And in the DLC, we get planets
that are actually geared towards using the Hammerhead in a fun and
exciting way. Not driving over barren landscapes that consist mainly of
unscalable mountains.



no, not everyone. I loved
the mako. The controls and physics were fun as hell, most of the time I
didnt even care about the dullness of uncharted worlds.
And why do
people always associate the mako with the dull worlds? The mako is a
separate thing, you can complain about the worlds separately, but not
say the mako is bad because driving around on the boring worlds is
boring.


There were four missions that required driving in the Mako. Therum, Virmire, Luna and Bring Down The Sky. Every single other one, to my recollection, was a side mission on an uncharted world. And uncharted worlds contained, pretty exclusively, nothing. A mission, at point A. A couple of random curios at points B & C. And a few resources for you to prospect that were invisible to your radar. Getting from the starting point to any of these locations was, at best, uneventful and at worst, damned near impossible. Yes, it's only my opinion. But there's nothing fun about the "controls and physics" of driving in a straight line. And pretty much all the uncharted planet maps were either straight flats or cripplingly boring mountains that took a lifetime to scale or drive around. Neither sounds appealing to me.

As for why people always associate the Mako with the dull worlds, well, like I said. There were four missions that weren't on those dull worlds. And dozens that were. That's why it stands out - it's the Mako's main use.

EDIT: Sorry, I just remembered. Luna was also a side mission that didn't require you to drive all about the map. You just needed to drive to point A on the map, and from there clear three bases of stuff. So three missions that required it, not four. Makes my point even better, really.



I wasnt talking about a straight line. Yes straight line was boring and so were some planets with extreme mountain ridges. But I loved the bumps and such. There were a lot of places where you can just drive up and randomly bounce around and use the thrusters for even more amusement. I found it fun :D

Guaritor wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Why
does everyone think this is just stuff took out of the game? Lets not
forget ME2 went gold before xmas so they must have been doing something
in that time,


Because... this is clearly made prior to
it going gold. Mako is a unique distinctive feature about mass effect.
Obviously the hammerhead was made wayy back. Besides it doesnt matter
when the game goes gold, it matters when it releases. They can't just
make excuses saying we went gold during christmas and then made some
new stuff but that doesnt matter because we made that after we said it
went gold so we can sell it for an extra price. No, that's wrong.

Squallypo wrote...

the hammerhead SHOULD BE AND MUST BE a part of the core game, its like saying for mass effect 1 we taking out the mako.


this



So
because it couldn't fit on TWO discs worth of content your getting...
your still entitled to get it for free and not pay BW for all the extra
work they did?  All this DLC stuff costs money to make, to test,
programmers and writers and artists cost money...


Technically, the normal law price for a game is $50/60. Then there's DLC, which is optional however recquired additional payment.

Now think of it this way: DLC is usually side missions and sometimes some new ideas such as weapons or gear made after the game release. Now think about the hammerhead. It's still one of the main features of ME, one way or another, whether the mako was bad or not. It was there since the beginning, so it isn't a new idea. Yes Bioware has the full right to do whatever they want with it but generally, is it normal? is it even nice? We all knew about it and were hoping to ride it around but instead we end up having to pay extra for something we've been aware of since a long time ago, and even knew almost all of it's concept.

I see no problem why they can't make some new missions and other things as DLC shorly after the game release that's NOT something that was announced or known about a long time ago. They'd still make that same money off it, hell, even if they had it already, but actually kept it secret, and it wasn't one of those Mass Effect only type features then it would still be fine in my eyes. They can make as many DLCs as they want, my only argument is that something that we waited for, knew about, were aware of, for a long time, and that is a successor to a distinctive core feature in the original game, shouldn't be sold for extra money.

It's like buying the game with guns and then buying a DLC for it that includes the ammo for the guns.

I know a lot of you are going to criticize me for this argument and it does seem far fetched (I'm kind of going over board actually ) but what I'm only trying to say is that they should make money off new and unannounced ideas, not something that should have been and sounds like it should have been in the core game.


Phew. I better gear up for the incoming face slaps.

#269
Guaritor

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crimzontearz wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Malastare- wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Guaritor wrote...

Just because its made and done, doesn't mean it should have been in the game. For one, they filled two discs... space is an issue. Secondly, there is a point where they just can't add more content to the game if they want to get it mass produced and to stores on time.  Anything worked on after that isn't part of the original game.


but ethically speaking it should be offered for free if it was made on the same budget


And that fact that it still isn't ready is a good indication that it wasn't made on the same budget.  Oh, and there is the repeated statements from Bioware that DLC is not produced by the same team that produced the main game.


And it doesn't matter if it was. Same budget? What the heck does that have to do with anything?


oh for the love of.....

ok......

here's the example. You give me 1000$ to make you a sword, the 1000$ is supposed to cover labor, materials and my personal expenses.

I end up taking that money and I make you the sword but when you come and get it I' say "well...for reason X I also used the mone you gave me to make you this lovely scabbard.......I COULD give it to you for free since it was within the original amount of money we budgeted BUT...I think I'll sell it to you for an extra 100$"

do you think that is AT ALL ethical? Sure I am entitled to do that because we only negotiated a sword but what I am asking you is was is the right thing to do or was it just me trying to get extra money?


would things change if I said "I made you this sword for 1000$ (of course telling the truth having exhausted the budged  that we agreed upon) yet for an extra 100$ I can also make you a scabbard to go with it"


I think thats perfectly ethical... you gave me $1000 to make you a sword to specific specifications, i did what you requested and came in under budget.  What i do with that left over money is up to me, if i choose to make a scabbard and attempt to sell that scabbard for more profit... well its my money.

#270
Squallypo

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you know theres something funny here, a dev could have come here and just clarify this whole doubts about the hammerhead and such, to avoid alot of arguing betwen us because in the end theres gonna be just one answer to this whole thread. so i guess ima wait

#271
izmirtheastarach

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Malastare- wrote...

Understand this: Your relationship with Bioware is very simple:  In a week, they are going to release a pair of DVDs. Either you buy them, or you don't.  Once you do that, they have zero requirement to provide you with anything more.  They didn't have to tell you that the Hammerhead even existed.  They certainly aren't required to give it to you, absolutely aren't required to give it to you for free, and your sense of entitlement would have to be herculean to believe that they have to fit it into the core game.  Now, Bioware is one of the great software makers, so they're actually goinig to give you the Hammerhead, and unless we're all reading things wrong, they're giving it to you for free. 

Be happy.

Be very, very happy.  I can guarantee you don't understand how much that bit of DLC cost Bioware.


QF EFFING T.

Thanks you for spelling it out in more detail then I have time for at work. This is the bottom line people. This is the truth.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 19 janvier 2010 - 09:52 .


#272
Dave of Canada

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You know what this means?

We'll be fighting Thresher Maws on foot before the Hammerhead comes out.

#273
RickmanUK

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Squallypo wrote...
this whole thing reminds me of tales of vesperia


Bah the Tales of Vesperia DLC isn't Anything like this.... Unless you Believe that your only going too be downloading something that's Already included in the game and using that file too "Unlock" that content...

Considering how big that the Day one DLC Appears too be this doe'snt appear too be the case.
img29.imageshack.us/img29/4674/dlcleak.jpg

#274
DaftPaycheck

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Dave of Canada wrote...

You know what this means?

We'll be fighting Thresher Maws on foot before the Hammerhead comes out.


Makes sense since there's an achievement for taking one down. :devil:

#275
Taiko Roshi

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Could some one please clarify the vehicles in ME 2. So the Hammerhead vehicle is DLC, will it be free? Is there a vehicle that comes with the game?



Thanks