824 réponses à ce sujet

[Litos456]

Stoko981 wrote...

Litos456 wrote...

I wasnt talking about a straight line. Yes straight line was boring and so were some planets with extreme mountain ridges. But I loved the bumps and such. There were a lot of places where you can just drive up and randomly bounce around and use the thrusters for even more amusement. I found it fun

Okay, again, that's cool. You found it fun. But you just agreed with me that the straight flats and the extreme mountains were boring. The only fun you had was the slightly bumpy terrain you could randomly bounce around and use the thrusters for even more amusement. That's great, but can you honestly tell me you consider that random bouncing a "main feature of ME"? I'd call ME's main features a rich storyline and plenty of missions. There's other stuff too, sure, but I don't think "a handful of slightly bumpy but not too mountainous uncharted planet maps in which you can drive about for no other reason except having a bit of fun" would make the list.

Therefore, they could remove it without sacrificing a "main feature". They've sacrificed a) a bit of fun (the bumpy bouncy parts)  a huge amount of tedium and frustration (the majority of Mako driving) and c) levels in the style of Therum, Virmire, Bring Down The Sky and I just remembered, Ilos. None of those three things qualify as a main feature. Even though three of the four missions I just named were main story missions, the driving sections were only half the mission. Not too much of a loss, in the grand scope of the game.

And that's what the DLC will reintroduce. So for those that really cared about driving the Mako, you'll get your driving missions. But for those that said "oh god, I never want to see that thing ever again", well, they won't. Everybody wins.

Oh come on, no sense of humor at all? All right all right you've made your point about it being DLC but you still don't explain why it should be sold for money...

[Evilsod]

Dave of Canada wrote...

• If you purchase the game used, not a single dollar goes to the company - it's one of the reasons the market is ruining gaming as a whole, Bioware decides to challenge it with giving away free downloadable content. Apparently, this is a slap to the face! People who pay cheaper than others will have to pay the company a little bit of money for the work they put into it if they want the DLC? OUTRAGEOUS!
• Are you complaining that you're required to download the DLC seperately, even if it's still free? People cry for anything now a days.
• If you're planning on pirating, why the hell are you crying about DLC?

People who pay cheaper than the others also WAIT for longer. Isn't this how things work? I really couldn't care less what the devs think about the second hand market, its existed for years and years and no-ones ever gone mad about it.

No i'm complaining that the DLC is done seperately when there is no reason for it to be, not only that but if its anything like DA:O, i've got to activate the damn thing and it might only be downloadable once (i'm still not sure about this).

What made you so self-righteous.

[Permutation]

Dave of Canada wrote...

• If you purchase the game used, not a single dollar goes to the company - it's one of the reasons the market is ruining gaming as a whole, Bioware decides to challenge it with giving away free downloadable content. Apparently, this is a slap to the face! People who pay cheaper than others will have to pay the company a little bit of money for the work they put into it if they want the DLC? OUTRAGEOUS!
  
• Are you complaining that you're required to download the DLC seperately, even if it's still free? People cry for anything now a days.
  
• If you're planning on pirating, why the hell are you crying about DLC?

I think those are all reasonable points. I'm all for paying for BioWare's DLC. Not because I'm foolish, but because I know their content is well worth it and they deserve to be compensated for their work.

[izmirtheastarach]

Evilsod wrote...

People who pay cheaper than the others also WAIT for longer. Isn't this how things work? I really couldn't care less what the devs think about the second hand market, its existed for years and years and no-ones ever gone mad about it.

No i'm complaining that the DLC is done seperately when there is no reason for it to be, not only that but if its anything like DA:O, i've got to activate the damn thing and it might only be downloadable once (i'm still not sure about this).

What made you so self-righteous.

There is a reason. It has been explained to you. Do you not understand the issue of used game sales? It doesn't really matter if you care about it, just that you understand that is what they are trying to address.

Also, the DLC can be downloaded as many times as neccessary.

There really is nothing to get upset about here.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:57 .

[crimzontearz]

Malastare- wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

actually, since ultimately the money for their return of investment comes from my pockets I do not feel unethical at all. ultimately OUR money.....OUR interest in game is what EA is after so yes they will cater to our wishes

Do not equate the money you pay for satisfaction with the money EA risked to make the game.  Your involvement is after the fact.  You do not have the opportunity or priviledge of setting preconditions.  Either you buy it or you don't.  EA and Bioware don't have that choice.

EA/Bioware is gambling their prowess against our desires.  Their goal is to spend the least to get the most people to buy the game.

crimzontearz wrote...

now with that in mind your mentality only leads to larger and larger rippoffs and to a future in which games will be sold ENTIRELY with microtransactions because.....well.....after all they are entiled to do so right?

This is elementary economics.  There are limits and you're well aware of them.  Hyperbole doesn't help the discussion.  EA/Bioware's job is to make us buy the game, and we'll buy the game if we're happy.  If we're really happy, we'll buy more of their games and we'll buy them at first-release prices.  So, you maximize profits by making your customers happier.  However, there are diminishing returns, and a team of game developers is not a cheap resource.

crimzontearz wrote...

as for the two teams being entirely separate, yes you are right....but in THIS case the lines are blurred because of the implication of the hammerhead being a DLC because of the lack of space problem encountered by the devs

That's not my point.  My point is that it doesn't matter why the Hammerhead was removed.  They decided to remove it.  No one here is being so cynical (or dishonest) as to claim that Bioware is shipping an incomplete game (well... almost no one).  They just feel that they are entitled to (effectively) force Bioware to release the game that they envisioned, ignoring the will, artistic vision, and economic decisions of the professional game developers who actually made the game.

I do not equate my money to EA but EA is spending money to get MY money, the risk  comes with any investment but the point of their investment  remains my money. but it is beyond the point


now, you called my example an hyperbole, dude, have you seen what they did with SFIV?? something like that would have been considered UNFATHOMABLE years ago and yet it happened...what you call hyperbole I call the end of a very real non-retorical slippery slope. And nowadays people as you can see are defending all this by saying "but the game is awesome on its own without the DLC"...so wait a minute if the game is crappy then day one paid DLC is not ok....yet if the game is good then it's ok?

I am not saying Bioware is shipping an incomplete game, far from me (tho I could say that about SFIV) , and I am ok with day 1 free DLC to prevent piracy.....but day one/week1 paid for DLC?   no, just no unless as I set before 2 budgets were established ahead of time. Yes in Bioware/Mass Effect case I might be pissed but I will still buy it all because it is my one favorite game....but for every other company? no I'd not do it 


As a side note the motivation behing an action is always relevant in a situation in which one is trying to  analyze if a certain course of action is or is not  underhanded.

it would be totally different if the hammerhead was removed because it could never pass QA tests and then reproposed a month after release because its problems were fixed Rather than it beig removed for the sole purpose of DLC sales and making more money

[It IS Lupus]

Terminator 800 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

So Zaeed is not a quad member after all. And the Hammerhead is DLC. Interesting way to get around the people who hated the Mako.

he is a squad member? It says recruited. What is he then if he isnt in the squad??

it says something about helping in A mission. not in the main mission.

[Poleaxe]

Evilsod wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

SethSteiner wrote...

What is good in that? This should be on disc in the first place. The whole Day1-DLC and 1st-Week After DLC is from the game and just cutted of to sell it as DLC to the ones who buy it used or to late. In the days of Baldurs Gate this was unthinkable and now there are people who defend this rip-off.

The game is already on two disks and has 11,000 more spoken words than Mass Effect; space is real issue. Personally I think this stuff should be free reguardless due to that issue.

Tell it to my Digital Edition. Disc space means jack ****. I can't re-sell it but i still have to jump through hoops with these ridiculous launch date DLCs.

I've not bought it yet because i'm holding off to see if its worth £40 to put up with this ****.

So tell me, why exactly couldn't my DDE include these 'disc saving DLCs' as standard?

Its starting to look very much like money grabbing imo. Pirating is a laughable excuse, and now the second hand market is getting dragged into this charade. If i bought something second hand only to find out i was getting screwed over for free content they gave to the original owner, why wouldn't i just pirate the additional content? Tthen begs the question, why not just pirate the whole thing until they stop giving us hoops to jump through?

Because it's wrong?

Modifié par Poleaxe, 20 janvier 2010 - 02:04 .

[Dave of Canada]

Evilsod says...

People who pay cheaper than the others also WAIT for longer. Isn't this
how things work? I really couldn't care less what the devs think about
the second hand market, its existed for years and years and no-ones
ever gone mad about it.

Well then, enjoy the game you got for cheaper. You got the full game, why do you think you're entitled to the DLC if you don't want to profit the company?

No i'm complaining that the DLC is done
seperately when there is no reason for it to be

Uses of resources and funding that weren't involved with the main game itself could be a reason, or maybe to try and reward players who purchase the game new.

not only that but if
its anything like DA:O, i've got to activate the damn thing and it
might only be downloadable once (i'm still not sure about this).

Having only the console version of Dragon Age, I'm not certain but I do believe the DLC registers to your EA account. You're able to download it at other areas and play it once you're on the main account.

What made you so self-righteous.

Years of being on forums while people whine and cry about literally everything.

[Squallypo]

It IS Lupus wrote...

Terminator 800 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

So Zaeed is not a quad member after all. And the Hammerhead is DLC. Interesting way to get around the people who hated the Mako.

he is a squad member? It says recruited. What is he then if he isnt in the squad??

it says something about helping in A mission. not in the main mission.

lol so its a mission partner then? i see.

[adam_grif]

If anybody here actually believes that Used Games are ruining the industry, they can suck my right stick.



Are used movies ruining the home video market? Are second hand cars ruining the automobile industry?



Bioware doesn't get any money when you buy ME second hand, but that's because they already got the money when the person bought it originally. That person no-longer has access to the game, because they just sold it to you. The same one copy is floating around, it just changed hands. Are you really expecting me to believe that Bioware deserves money every time a single copy of the game changes hands, even though they already got the money for that copy?

[Dave of Canada]

It IS Lupus wrote...

Terminator 800 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

So Zaeed is not a quad member after all. And the Hammerhead is DLC. Interesting way to get around the people who hated the Mako.

he is a squad member? It says recruited. What is he then if he isnt in the squad??

it says something about helping in A mission. not in the main mission.

I heavily doubt they'd make a whole new character and give him a story if he's only there for a single mission.

[izmirtheastarach]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I heavily doubt they'd make a whole new character and give him a story if he's only there for a single mission.

Maybe it's a really big mission?

[HF100]

adam_grif wrote...

If anybody here actually believes that Used Games are ruining the industry, they can suck my right stick.

Are used movies ruining the home video market? Are second hand cars ruining the automobile industry?

Bioware doesn't get any money when you buy ME second hand, but that's because they already got the money when the person bought it originally. That person no-longer has access to the game, because they just sold it to you. The same one copy is floating around, it just changed hands. Are you really expecting me to believe that Bioware deserves money every time a single copy of the game changes hands, even though they already got the money for that copy?

Movies do however gain revenue from Cinema and DVD sales, and thats not counting the amount of money that can be made on new editions and platforms (Blueray for example) look how many versions of Starwars that actually exists. Games need a new way to ensure sales and i don't see how this is a bad strategy.

and also Right Stick?!?!

[Dave of Canada]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I heavily doubt they'd make a whole new character and give him a story if he's only there for a single mission.

Maybe it's a really big mission?

I have a feeling people will want to romance him and create a thread in the following days.

[izmirtheastarach]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I have a feeling people will want to romance him and create a thread in the following days.

Now that the Hammerhead is confimed, I am going to start a romance thread for it as well.

[Guaritor]

adam_grif wrote...

If anybody here actually believes that Used Games are ruining the industry, they can suck my right stick.

Are used movies ruining the home video market? Are second hand cars ruining the automobile industry?

Bioware doesn't get any money when you buy ME second hand, but that's because they already got the money when the person bought it originally. That person no-longer has access to the game, because they just sold it to you. The same one copy is floating around, it just changed hands. Are you really expecting me to believe that Bioware deserves money every time a single copy of the game changes hands, even though they already got the money for that copy?

If BW is continuing support and putting more effort into the game then was origionally sold... yes.  You don't buy a used honda and then take it back to the honda dealer demanding it be serviced just because its a honda. 

The origional owner had its service agreement, and it doesn't extend to you just because its the same car.

[Evilsod]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Evilsod says...

People who pay cheaper than the others also WAIT for longer. Isn't this
how things work? I really couldn't care less what the devs think about
the second hand market, its existed for years and years and no-ones
ever gone mad about it.

Well then, enjoy the game you got for cheaper. You got the full game, why do you think you're entitled to the DLC if you don't want to profit the company?

No i'm complaining that the DLC is done
seperately when there is no reason for it to be

Uses of resources and funding that weren't involved with the main game itself could be a reason, or maybe to try and reward players who purchase the game new.

not only that but if
its anything like DA:O, i've got to activate the damn thing and it
might only be downloadable once (i'm still not sure about this).

Having only the console version of Dragon Age, I'm not certain but I do believe the DLC registers to your EA account. You're able to download it at other areas and play it once you're on the main account.

What made you so self-righteous.

Years of being on forums while people whine and cry about literally everything.

There seems to be this strange assumption that i'm getting it second hand/pirated... its funny how you only think i can comment on it if i intend to do it.

I am in all likelyhood, getting the DDE off Steam. Meaning there is no reason at all to waste my time with anti-piracy/anti-second hand policies when Steam prevents both. My problem is with the obsession with DLCs cropping up now. Don't buy the game at release? Well now you have to pay this content that should've come with the game in the first place. Why not simply try and promote people buying the Digital version so they don't/can't trade it in? No instead they attempt to FORCE you to buy it new. I don't particularly like having to jump through hoops so i can actually play my damn game, especially when these hoops do NOTHING to deter the very people they're supposed to be targetting.

[Phoenixblight]

Evilsod wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Evilsod says...

People who pay cheaper than the others also WAIT for longer. Isn't this
how things work? I really couldn't care less what the devs think about
the second hand market, its existed for years and years and no-ones
ever gone mad about it.

Well then, enjoy the game you got for cheaper. You got the full game, why do you think you're entitled to the DLC if you don't want to profit the company?

No i'm complaining that the DLC is done
seperately when there is no reason for it to be

Uses of resources and funding that weren't involved with the main game itself could be a reason, or maybe to try and reward players who purchase the game new.

not only that but if
its anything like DA:O, i've got to activate the damn thing and it
might only be downloadable once (i'm still not sure about this).

Having only the console version of Dragon Age, I'm not certain but I do believe the DLC registers to your EA account. You're able to download it at other areas and play it once you're on the main account.

What made you so self-righteous.

Years of being on forums while people whine and cry about literally everything.

There seems to be this strange assumption that i'm getting it second hand/pirated... its funny how you only think i can comment on it if i intend to do it.

I am in all likelyhood, getting the DDE off Steam. Meaning there is no reason at all to waste my time with anti-piracy/anti-second hand policies when Steam prevents both. My problem is with the obsession with DLCs cropping up now. Don't buy the game at release? Well now you have to pay this content that should've come with the game in the first place. Why not simply try and promote people buying the Digital version so they don't/can't trade it in? No instead they attempt to FORCE you to buy it new. I don't particularly like having to jump through hoops so i can actually play my damn game, especially when these hoops do NOTHING to deter the very people they're supposed to be targetting.

You continue to get the DLC free as long as the game is bought new its not just release day.

[Dave of Canada]

Phoenixblight wrote...

You continue to get the DLC free as long as the game is bought new its not just release day.

This.

[Gaddmeister]

Phoenixblight wrote...

You continue to get the DLC free as long as the game is bought new its not just release day.

It'll be interesting to see for how long. The DLC for Dragon Age expires May 1st if I'm not mistaken.

But anyway, I don't see any problem with day 1 DLC like some people do. Even if it's not only to prevent used copy sales, why should a developer not be able to make some extra money if people think the game is good enough? Why should every game cost $60 regardless of quality and length? I don't expect to pay the price of a Big Mac when I go to a quality restaurant.

I'll buy the game and then if it's good and if I feel that the DLC will add sufficiently to the experience I'm more than happy to pay for it. If not, then I'll pass. I bet I will still enjoy ME2 more than most games I've played and isn't that experience worth the full price just because they could have added even more?

[Phoenixblight]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

You continue to get the DLC free as long as the game is bought new its not just release day.

It'll be interesting to see for how long. The DLC for Dragon Age expires May 1st if I'm not mistaken.

But anyway, I don't see any problem with day 1 DLC like some people do. Even if it's not only to prevent used copy sales, why should a developer not be able to make some extra money if people think the game is good enough? Why should every game cost $60 regardless of quality and length? I don't expect to pay the price of a Big Mac when I go to a quality restaurant.

I'll buy the game and then if it's good and if I feel that the DLC will add sufficiently to the experience I'm more than happy to pay for it. If not, then I'll pass. I bet I will still enjoy ME2 more than most games I've played and isn't that experience worth the full price just because they could have added even more?

You have that time frame to use it because if you don't the automated system will just recycle it and put into the system again. Stone prisoner will be free til the game is discontinued from being manufactured.

[Gaddmeister]

Phoenixblight wrote...

You have that time frame to use it because if you don't the automated system will just recycle it and put into the system again. Stone prisoner will be free til the game is discontinued from being manufactured.

Aha ok. But does that help people who buy the game after that date? I mean, how are they supposed to use their code card then? I assume it will work the same way for ME2. Not that it concerns me personally, but I'm curious nonetheless.

[Phoenixblight]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

You have that time frame to use it because if you don't the automated system will just recycle it and put into the system again. Stone prisoner will be free til the game is discontinued from being manufactured.

Aha ok. But does that help people who buy the game after that date? I mean, how are they supposed to use their code card then? I assume it will work the same way for ME2. Not that it concerns me personally, but I'm curious nonetheless.

Anyone who buys the game new after that date will still get it free. Unless they bought it release date and then ecided to finally use it after that date. Then they may be SOL.