50 réponses à ce sujet

[lightswitch]

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

[Heldarion]

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

[VaultingFrog]

So you want to ****fy the solo gig? Alright then.

[Deerber]

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

[Heldarion]

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

Well, unless you're doing no-rocket speedruns. Otherwise rocketing is essential for faster times.

[VaultingFrog]

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

Your .win file makes me sad cause I cant use it.

[Deerber]

Heldarion wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

Well, unless you're doing no-rocket speedruns. Otherwise rocketing is essential for faster times.

Lol. Yeah, can't argue with that. But the choice to use rockets is upon each of us. We could just hide the launcher at the start of the first wave and pretend it's not there  

[Heldarion]

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

Well, unless you're doing no-rocket speedruns. Otherwise rocketing is essential for faster times.

Lol. Yeah, can't argue with that. But the choice to use rockets is upon each of us. We could just hide the launcher at the start of the first wave and pretend it's not there  

Y'all are too butthurt about that rocket launcher.

[Ice Cold J]

No.

[NuclearTech76]

Heldarion wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

No they're not. Not necessarily. 

Well, unless you're doing no-rocket speedruns. Otherwise rocketing is essential for faster times.

Lol. Yeah, can't argue with that. But the choice to use rockets is upon each of us. We could just hide the launcher at the start of the first wave and pretend it's not there  

Y'all are too butthurt about that rocket launcher.

It interferes with aesthic beauty of my killing machine and yours..

Super cereal issue that needs more attention not less.

[Yo Son]

"There should be seperate Solo Mode without devices for ME4."


fixed

[Prestacious]

d_nought wrote...

Or they could have made devices not so ridiculous like they should have done 18 months ago. Pretty much every objective on every map has about 30s - 1min completion, Rio notwithstanding, but devices are usually about 75s even on small maps, and that's under ideal conditions. Excessive running might go to 90, and being interrupted or getting an unlucky spot can easily push it past 2 minutes. You can tank through Escorts/Hacks/Bad Pizzas with Ops Packs and switch Targets or cheese them with thermals, but there really isn't anything you can do to reduce the annoyance of devices. Can't reduce the time, can't pre-empt their position, can't "tank" through them or otherwise boost yourself and can't give yourself 200% speed + Cabal dodge on every character in order to reach the next device in less than 5 seconds.

Considering that "upload" based objectives (hacks, escorts) scale with player number, I don't see how devices remained un-nerfed since the early days. I dunno how much work it would take to make potential completion time balanced for each objective on each map, but that would be an ideal solution.

I agree. If you actually get four players doing a device, the time to get that device completed is drastically reduced. The completion time per device should be scaled accordingly for the amount of players in a match, much like the hacking duration and drone speed imo.

[Deerber]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

It interferes with aesthic beauty of my killing machine and yours..

Super cereal issue that needs more attention not less.

Agreed! 

[Fortack]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

This would put everyone on a level playing field to go for fast solo times and encourage lots of healthy competition amongst very good players. Right now luck is too much a factor in determining how quick a solo time is or will be.

1. Luck is gonna play a huge part regardless.

2. Soloing this game is easy enough. Getting fast times (assuming the player possesses the base skill level to kill things quickly) has hardly anything to do with skill anyway.

3. Abusing AI weakness and nuking half the enemy force with rockets has absolutely nothing to do with being "better" than others - which seems to be the point here.

4. Trying something a gazillion times to claim you're good or whatever is something I find funny.

5. A solid designed co op game should be impossible to play without teamwork. It ain't hard - with the proper hardware - to create a difficulty setting that cannot be soloed. Asking for a setting which is supposed to please soloers is terrible. We don't want to give Bioware ideas to make the game easier than it ought to be.

So no thanks.

Also, objectives are actually among the better things this game has to offer. They at least force the player(s) to accomplish something beyond killing everything in sight ASAP. Instead of asking for an objective(s)-free mode we should be asking for more complicated ones.

[Deerber]

Fortack wrote...

It ain't hard - with the proper hardware - to create a difficulty setting that cannot be soloed.

Well, I happen to disagree on this. I think that the only way to prevent people from soloing a co-op game is putting in artificial barriers - that is, an objective that needs 2+ people to activate, for example.

Otherwise, if it can be done by 4 people, someone, somewhen, somewhere, is going to find a way to do it alone. It's just a matter of an AI not being able to match a human brain, no matter how many advantages it has.

But... It can sure as hell be made much, much harder than it is now, to the point where you would hardly ever hear talking about it. Which would be already a big step, me thinks.



And I totally agree with pretty much everything else.

[FuriousFelicia]

I think we actually need more/harder objectives. Maybe even make soloing very near to impossible in the future of ME MP. That could be achieved through objectives...some objective that would require players to be at two different locations at the same time or something.

[cato potato]

d_nought wrote...

Or they could have made devices not so ridiculous like they should have done 18 months ago. Pretty much every objective on every map has about 30s - 1min completion, Rio notwithstanding, but devices are usually about 75s even on small maps, and that's under ideal conditions. Excessive running might go to 90, and being interrupted or getting an unlucky spot can easily push it past 2 minutes. You can tank through Escorts/Hacks/Bad Pizzas with Ops Packs and switch Targets or cheese them with thermals, but there really isn't anything you can do to reduce the annoyance of devices. Can't reduce the time, can't pre-empt their position, can't "tank" through them or otherwise boost yourself and can't give yourself 200% speed + Cabal dodge on every character in order to reach the next device in less than 5 seconds.

Considering that "upload" based objectives (hacks, escorts) scale with player number, I don't see how devices remained un-nerfed since the early days. I dunno how much work it would take to make potential completion time balanced for each objective on each map, but that would be an ideal solution.

I completely agree, all objectives should require different actions or tactics but should be generally equal in difficulty. Having one objective be vastly more difficult or time consuming hopefully won't be an issue in the next game (assuming it's anything like this one).

[Tokenusername]

No.

[Annika]

How about fixed objectives then? But I think that the next installment will be a bit different from what we have now.

[Fortack]

Deerber wrote...

Fortack wrote...

It ain't hard - with the proper hardware - to create a difficulty setting that cannot be soloed.

Well, I happen to disagree on this. I think that the only way to prevent people from soloing a co-op game is putting in artificial barriers - that is, an objective that needs 2+ people to activate, for example.

Otherwise, if it can be done by 4 people, someone, somewhen, somewhere, is going to find a way to do it alone. It's just a matter of an AI not being able to match a human brain, no matter how many advantages it has.

From what I've seen from Annomander so far, I don't think anyone will be able to solo his mod anytime soon - and that's with ME3's wonky AI, massive pathfinding issues, and maps too small to even accommodate the number of enemies in play let alone give them room for some basic flanking maneuvers.

Designing a mode that is incredibly hard for four excellent players to beat is more than feasible, and such a thing would be close to impossible to solo.

There are plenty of games (most of them quite old) that have modes that are impossible to beat without using lame tricks. For me (and I believe for a lot of other people too) immersion is very important. I don't mind people using game-breaking glitches (so I couldn't care less if someone can beat the game that way), but I won't and don't consider em to be "legitimate" anyway.

[OneMore1968]

what would be the point in making the objectives harder when so many ppl are editing their files and cheating their way through MP anyway.

For those who don't edit and complete in legitimate way, objectives (solo mode, not with multiple players) in the current format can be quite difficult due to a number of factors such as re-spawns, what and where the objectives are, lag.

I would much prefer development time to be devoted to new maps and sorting out the existing problems that we have. Might persuade some of the player base to come back then as the pool is getting quite small at the moment as people lose interest.

[BridgeBurner]

FuriousFelicia wrote...

I think we actually need more/harder objectives. Maybe even make soloing very near to impossible in the future of ME MP. That could be achieved through objectives...some objective that would require players to be at two different locations at the same time or something.

While I don't think that soloing should be impossible in future iterations of mass effect and any multiplayer component it has, I do believe that objectives should scale UPWARDS in difficulty; so for hacking, you would need to be in the circle for virtually 3-4 minutes to complete the objective, escorts should be slower, more pizzas, time constraints should be more of an issue and numbers of targets to assassinate should be higher, etc.

Devices is a close call, it's hard enough as it is I think.

[lightswitch]

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

I can think of a lot of reasons the Cobra missile launcher might not be back in the next game. Particularly if it's built on a free to play model.

Modifié par lightswitch, 20 septembre 2013 - 09:09 .

[LemurFromTheId]

lightswitch wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

I can think of a lot of reasons the Cobra missile launcher might not be back in the next game. Partivularly if it's built on a free to play model.

Oh dear God, please, please don't let it be F2P.

Please?

[lightswitch]

Aedolon wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Luck would still be a primary factor with split spawns on missile waves. If missiles are a thing still.

What? Missiles are THE thing when it comes to speedrunning.

I can think of a lot of reasons the Cobra missile launcher might not be back in the next game. Partivularly if it's built on a free to play model.

Oh dear God, please, please don't let it be F2P.

Please?

What's wrong with free to play? I'd expect it to be similar to how it is now except you can actually know what you're getting if you want to spend money.

And built with an eye towards eliminating effective harvesting strategies...easiest way to do that is eliminate the missile launcher.

F2P has its' benefits for players as well. Starting with the game is free, but mostly at least you can expect the game to have continuous support pretty much as long as it has a player base. Planetside 2 is the only other game I play and I enjoy it quite a bit.

Deerber wrote...

Well, I happen to disagree on this. I think that the only way to prevent people from soloing a co-op game is putting in artificial barriers - that is, an objective that needs 2+ people to activate, for example.

Just doubling the number of enemies on the field at any given time and eliminating all consumables would have prevented 99.9% of all solos ever accomplished from being finished. Beyond that crank up the difficulty to something akin to what you see in Annomanders' insanity mods and I really don't see anyone finishing a solo. Barely ever. Maybe by exploiting a glitch in a map like on Hydra. Even then there's objectives.