272 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

and I wanted the option to tell the Alliance to fly into a black hole while Cerberus gets sh*t done.... but hey, paragon points and all

[AresKeith]

That's what they were originally gonna do too

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

That's what they were originally gonna do too

I didn't know that.

*sigh* So many cut ideas, and even cut content that's actually made. Wtf.

And then comparing it to the crap that we got.

Yes, a trial would have been good. My Shepard is more or less a criminal in the eyes of the alliance. **** them, I support Cerberus.

[JasonShepard]

Personally, I'm glad they didn't go with the trial. It would have been far too predictable, in my opinion, to have the Reaper invasion interrupt the very trial where Shepard was arguing that they existed.

I can see the appeal of a trial, but I'm quite happy with the Prologue that we got. It makes sense that the Alliance would call in Shepard the moment that they thought the Reapers actually might be coming, and I'm free to believe that Shepard spent those six months advising Hackett and Anderson on the threat (because even if you can't get the entire galaxy to prepare, it's still worth getting at least part of it to prepare...)

However, I can understand that Shepard handing himself/herself into custody feels out of character for some players, even if it's perfectly in character for my own.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 21 septembre 2013 - 01:33 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

and I wanted the option to tell the Alliance to fly into a black hole while Cerberus gets sh*t done.... but hey, paragon points and all

Not a fan of Cerberus but I also woulda' liked the option to tell the Alliance where to go. I'm fairly certain Shepard could've done something more productive than sitting around getting fat in those six months they spent on Earth. The whole notion of the Shepard I play voluntarily letting the moronic leaders of the Alliance imprison her is just stupid for a long list of reasons, and it's probably about my most hated part of the entire Mass Effect story.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 21 septembre 2013 - 01:50 .

[jontepwn]

I would've loved it if my Shepard was on trial and I got the option to go all Kyle Reese on the judges and rant about the killer robots coming to kill us all.

In general though that entire beginning portion feels pretty hastily brought together and has some really goofy dialogue. During the entire sequence I'm just sitting there every time trying to figure out why I think it sucks so much.

Also, Anderson runs weird.

Late edit: Ok, maybe 'sucks' is too strong a word. Underwhelming is perhaps a better description.

Modifié par jontepwn, 21 septembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

Personally, I'm glad they didn't go with the trial. It would have been far too predictable, in my opinion, to have the Reaper invasion interrupt the very trial where Shepard was arguing that they existed.

I can see the appeal of a trial, but I'm quite happy with the Prologue that we got. It makes sense that the Alliance would call in Shepard the moment that they thought the Reapers actually might be coming, and I'm free to believe that Shepard spent those six months advising Hackett and Anderson on the threat (because even if you can't get the entire galaxy to prepare, it's still worth getting at least part of it to prepare...)

However, I can understand that Shepard handing himself/herself into custody feels out of character for some players, even if it's perfectly in character for my own.

Handing myself into custody doesn't feel too out of character. It might suck, but I understand that part. Especially if I play Arrival. It's the unexplained deference and lack of voicing frustration that sucks. It's the lack of being able to make any kind of case for myself, any kind of warning, or a reason why I turn myself in and want to be on friendly terms again. I want to play out how I renew these relationships (Ashley and Kaidan get this at least). I never had this forced level of deference even in ME1. I could voice even small disagreements with Anderson there about Spectres, the notion of civilian casualities, or even shock him by siding with Udina on some big points (not necessarily my preference, but the point is..I could do it. It was a roleplaying game. I got to choose a role.. This is the kind of **** I always used to look forward to in Bioware titles.). I could reject Hackett's requests as well. I want options to be more involved and interactive in the game world. Not in some cutscene that rewrites my character's psychology.

My Shepard more or less told Hackett to **** off after Arrival. If I had it my way, my Shepard would not have willingly turned himself in unless it was for the sake of protecting his Cerberus crew. Minus giving a report that he knows the alliance won't listen too, he is completely silent on Cerberus during his incarceration. Even though he's separated from them, he believes them to be the only ones that can fight the Reapers since the alliance and the Council keep screwing Shepard over.

Ditto on everything else, especially the forced deference and love for the alliance. My Shepard would certainly have had a much, much more antagonistic relationship with Anderson, Hackett, the alliance, and especially the VS (Mainly Ashley for me).

Basically, the only reason my Shepard would have anything to do with the alliance is because they are his only option at this point. Since Cerberus is indoctrinated, he can't join them. His plan was to link up with Cerberus, and bridge the gap between them and everyone else to hopefully get them to fight the Reapers. Sadly, he has two choices: ignorant a-holes with their head in the sand, or extreme masterminds who happen to be under Reaper mind-control.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

The forced deference is written for noobs who picked up the game at Wal-Mart and have a negative reaction to anyone saying anything unpatriotic or bad about the military. The lowest common denominator Redneck. If they cared about previous players, it'd be a more complicated, involved transition. There was once an interesting story there.

Ironic.

I'm in the military, have been for nearly 7 years, am a Veteran, and I'm one of the most un-patriotic people I know who never hesitates to belittle, complain, and question the philosophy, mentality, ideology, and general competence of the military and its leaders. Beyond tactical and strategic considerations, I basically have no real regard for my superiors. A fairly dangerous attitude to have in the military. Especially as junior officer myself. Same with the United States in general. 
 

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:48 .

[KaiserShep]

I can only imagine that a trial would have been a frustrating mess, serving only to give a clearer illustration of Shepard's railroaded proceedings and being forced out of the ship he/she used to save the entire galaxy. The tribunal would have spewed insufferable nonsense, questioning Shepard's ties, while failing to reconcile the Council and Alliance's inaction while whole colonies were being abducted. Never mind that an Alliance soldier, with whom Shepard has a history with, witnessed at least one actual attack on a colony to help confirm this. Then, you're held responsible for being sent into a trap by an Admiral who could not be bothered to contact someone who was actually working for the Alliance at the time. I prefer to leave the trial to the imagination.

Massively, being "un-patriotic" can really depend on how you look at it. Dissenting against authority figures is not necessarily the same as lacking support for the country. My father was an AF veteran who had huge problems with authority, and always spoke out against that which he felt was pure bullsh**. I would not have described him as being un-patriotic.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:55 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

KaiserShep wrote...
Massively, being "un-patriotic" can really depend on how you look at it. Dissenting against authority figures is not necessarily the same as lacking support for the country.

I lack support for how I believe the general trend America has been taking has been.

[Kataphrut94]

A trial doesn't strike me as necessary. It's just a longer setup to the same end point, that is the Reapers invading and Shepard skedaddling. I actually like the idea of the existing opening scene, that is Shepard being called from prison to confirm the fear that saw him arrested (that and, you know, mass manslaughter). It was just executed dodgy.

One thing I preferred about Mass Effect 3 was that it had none of the arbitrary skepticism that dogged the previous two: everyone knows about the Reapers, and people are willing to believe you right from the start. It would have been tiresome to devote part of the beginning to trotting out the same arguments to a bunch of inevitably strawmanned politicians who absolutely will not be convinced until Harbinger is literally putting his laser tentacles to their backs.

[andy6915]

There was no real trial. Shepard did some off-screen explaining that the Alliance ended up believing and taking seriously, and they kept you locked down to avoid war with the Batarians... Partially because they knew Shepard was right about the Reapers and knew wasting resources on a needless war with the Reapers on the way would have been monumentally stupid. Shepard was kinda a sacrificial lamb, they could keep telling the Batarians "we have him/her locked up for what he/she and we in NO WAY condoned his/her actions, so there's no need for you to wage war on us". If Shepard had been totally free and the Batarians found out, they would have waged full scale war and left them both even more weak for when the Reapers showed up. Shepard being locked away made sure that they believed the Alliance and didn't declare war.

So yeah. I too was annoyed when we heard about there would be no trial before ME3 came out, but I see now that there was no serious trial to begin with. A trial would mean them deciding how punished you should be and discussing your crimes, but the Alliance knew that Shepard was right for destroying the relay and that Shepard really did save everyone's asses. As Anderson said, the Alliance believing Shepard is exactly why Shepard wasn't left in a maximum security prison for war criminals with a life sentence.

[AlexMBrennan]

Then, you're held responsible for being sent into a trap by an Admiral who could not be bothered to contact someone who was actually working for the Alliance at the time. I prefer to leave the trial to the imagination.

The trial can't possibly be about Arrival because it is optional DLC, and a trial for working with Cerberus would probably be negatively received by anyone who didn't like the ME2 railroading.

while failing to reconcile the Council and Alliance's inaction

So what? Cerberus is a terrorist organisation, and Shepard willingly worked for them despite having loads of opportunities to return to the Alliance, and according to Tevos's comments in ME2 that crime carries the death penalty. Just because Shepard had a reson for committing a crime doesn't mean he's not guilty.

But as I said earlier, players didn't get a say in the matter and will thus defend and extol the virtues of terrorists.

[andy6915]

Even if it wasn't about the relay, the Alliance also ended up believing you about the Collectors and why you worked with Cerberus too. Either way there was no trial, either way Shepard wasn't truly in trouble, either way it was just to keep the Batarians happy.

Modifié par andy69156915, 21 septembre 2013 - 04:12 .

[KaiserShep]

That's actually a good point, andy, so I can definitely understand that. Still, Anderson's tone is kind of unfounded in Mass Effect 3. Why would any other soldier be tried and face a court-martial if doing what Shepard did for the same reasons?

[MegaSovereign]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like the intro....However, when I put more than 30 seconds of thought into the whole trial idea seems more like an expository novelty at best.

The intro to any ME game is intentionally linear in order to set the premise. With that in mind, how would a trial not be inconsequential? If Shepard "loses," why would it matter when his point about the Reapers existing will be proven by their eventual and imminent invasion? How would the trial add any real role-playing opportunities that wouldn't seem superficial?

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 21 septembre 2013 - 04:53 .

[MegaSovereign]

StreetMagic wrote...

If not a trial, I'd still prefer some kind of setup and exploration of the current setting's conditions as I start. A way to create some boundaries, character psychology, rekindle friendships (or rivalries). It's all too automated. The way it is a new way of getting acquainted with a game world to me. And I'm still not used to it. I don't need a giant lore dump right at the beginning like some RPGs do (and some Bioware games have done), but for fcksakes, at least some investigative stuff would be nice. Even ME2, with all of the criticism it gets for shoving Cerberus on to you, at least tries to create a fairly involved "acquainting" period, when you first meet Jacob and talk about Project Lazarus, and when you first meet The Illusive Man and talk about Cerberus. That was well done and it didn't sacrifice the much vaunted "cinematic" flow that ME3 puts on a pedestal. The first TIM meeting was cinematic as hell. But they've taken a direction in autodialogue and cinematics where you're barely offering input or investigating anything.

That period in ME2 was not the prologue though.  

I think Mars could have had what you're talking about. IMO, Mars failed harder than the intro. The VS's skepticism about Shepard further reminds me of the Cerberus railroading aspect of ME2. And the way the Crucible was introduced was an immediate indication that my ME1/ME2 shenanigans don't play much of a role in its finding. 

[andy6915]

KaiserShep wrote...

That's actually a good point, andy, so I can definitely understand that. Still, Anderson's tone is kind of unfounded in Mass Effect 3. Why would any other soldier be tried and face a court-martial if doing what Shepard did for the same reasons?

Because "another soldier" didn't stop a Reaper invasion by doing a terrorist action like blowing up a solar system and didn't bring back proof and evidence of the Reapers from the Collector base (remember that datapad Joker hands you at the end of ME2 showing data about Harbinger?). Anyone else blowing up a relay and working for Cerberus would have had no good reasons for either, Shepard had reasons for both.

If another soldier had done it for Shepard's reasons, they wouldn't be court martialed. But Shepard is the one that did. Besides, they "trust Shepard" according to Anderson... Whatever that means.

Modifié par andy69156915, 21 septembre 2013 - 05:13 .