272 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Basic reasoning is the authority. The beginning of the game needs to introduce the characters, the setting, and perhaps most importantly, the gameplay. Having Shepard walk around and talk to random people in a tragically misguided attempt to build a 'connection' to Earth would be boring and pointless.

You've just successfully described the first few mintues of ME1, congratulations.

Apples and oranges. As I said, the story of ME 3 is the story of the Reaper invasion. That tone and atmosphere needs to be established ASAP. ME 1 has no such burden, since it's tone and atmosphere is much more the gentle discovery of the galaxy and the Reapers.

In any case, the dialogue is with crew members discussing the upcoming mission. Content that very directly concerns the player.

Modifié par David7204, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:09 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

The time for that is past. The story of ME 3 is the story of the Reapers invading. That's the tone, and the tone needs to be consistent.

Umm, no one knew when they was gonna attack. So there could've been plenty of time for other stuff

[GreyLycanTrope]

It's also the story of liberating Earth, spending some time there wouldn't be bad to emphasis who and what you're fighting for. Those people back on Earth and that Anderson and dream kid are stands in for? Those scene wouldn't been far more effective.

Eden Prime wasn't gentle, tonal shifts can work if they're done properly.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:12 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The time for that is past. The story of ME 3 is the story of the Reapers invading. That's the tone, and the tone needs to be consistent.

How does an intro that builds up on the Reapers coming through the trial that is meant to be an account of Shepard's actions committed in the name of stopping the Reapers hinder the tone of the story in any way? Especially a game that is 30 to 40 hours long on average?

Or how the rest of the game seemingly forgets the Reapers exist.

Do you defend Omega? Or Citadel? There's barely anything about the Reapers in those. 

The game can take its time building them up. And making their arrival that much more powerful when they actually arrive.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[andy6915]

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Basic reasoning is the authority. The beginning of the game needs to introduce the characters, the setting, and perhaps most importantly, the gameplay. Having Shepard walk around and talk to random people in a tragically misguided attempt to build a 'connection' to Earth would be boring and pointless.

You've just successfully described the first few mintues of ME1, congratulations.

And ME1 has a far better beginning then 3 did... Which I think just made David's point.

[Steelcan]

ME3's beginning needed to establish several things right off the bat

1. How powerful are the Reapers, check
2. How is Shepard going to start fighting back, check
3. Introduce important characters, if Mars is included this also gets a check
4. Establish a connection for the player so that there is emotional investment, horrible failure.

The scene with the child is an attempt at this, and it is hard to say how successful it would have been had the Catalyst not taken his shape. But to be honest, it was forced emotion and did not mesh well.

[GreyLycanTrope]

andy69156915 wrote...
And ME1 has a far better beginning then 3 did... Which I think just made David's point.

Quite the reverse actually, David's arguing aginst an ME1 like opening. Refer to his top post.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:23 .

[David7204]

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's also the story of liberating Earth, spending some time there wouldn't be bad to emphasis who and what you're fighting for. Those people back on Earth and that Anderson and dream kid are stands in for? Those scene wouldn't been far more effective.

Eden Prime wasn't gentle, tonal shifts can work if they're done properly.

That is not a tonal shift at all.

Modifié par David7204, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:15 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

andy69156915 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Basic reasoning is the authority. The beginning of the game needs to introduce the characters, the setting, and perhaps most importantly, the gameplay. Having Shepard walk around and talk to random people in a tragically misguided attempt to build a 'connection' to Earth would be boring and pointless.

You've just successfully described the first few mintues of ME1, congratulations.

And ME1 has a far better beginning then 3 did... Which I think just made David's point.

No. ME1 opened with... Shepard walking around and talking to random people in a 'tragically misguided attempt' to build a 'connection' to the universe and the story. 

And it certainly wasn't boring or pointless. 

I rather dislike when David claims that because he doesn't like something or something doesn't make his standard, it must be objectively bad. Very arrogant and egomaniacal.

[David7204]

People on this forum evidently have a very difficult time understanding basic points, since I never once said or even implied ME 1's intro was bad in any way. I merely said that ME 3 has obligations that ME 1 did not.

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The time for that is past. The story of ME 3 is the story of the Reapers invading. That's the tone, and the tone needs to be consistent.

How does an intro that builds up on the Reapers coming through the trial that is meant to be an account of Shepard's actions committed in the name of stopping the Reapers hinder the tone of the story in any way? Especially a game that is 30 to 40 hours long on average?

Or how the rest of the game seemingly forgets the Reapers exist.

Do you defend Omega? Or Citadel? There's barely anything about the Reapers in those. 

The game can take its time building them up. And making their arrival that much more powerful when they actually arrive.

I'm going to have to agree with this. As well, for a story that is supposed to "set the atmosphere for the Reaper Invasion," it sure almost has nothing to do with it. They amount to Earth, Palaven, and Thessia. They are the only parts that even try to deal with the Reapers. The rest of the game is spent trying to show how bad Cerberus is and how Cerberus is an enemy, completely ignoring the fact that the real enemy should be the Reapers. They tried to solve this by forcing TIM to somehow want to ally himself completely with the Reapers, when this behavior had never been seen or established prior. IMO, that was a boing and pointless plot, not connecting to characters. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:19 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

People on this forum evidently have a very difficult time understanding basic points, since I never once said or even implied ME 1's intro was bad in any way. I merely said that ME 3 has obligations that ME 1 did not.

You just stated that a game that has the type of intro that ME1 has is pointless and boring. You didn't say ME1 specifically, but you failed to mention that ME1 has said intro that you just disparaged.

There are no obligations it has to you. You say that all the time. Why do you act as if the game is obligated to serve your wishes?

You say that we're unreasonable in wanting or expecting something. Then you go up and say that the game and developers are obligated to satisfy you.

But you're always right, right?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:21 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

David7204 wrote...
That is not a tonal shift at all.

We went from a calm and relaxed atmosphere to an urgent distress call.

[David7204]

The overall atmosphere of the story was never what I would call calm. Right from the beginning, it was established that Shepard is a soldier, the Normandy is a warship, and you're on an important and dangerous mission. Having conversations on the ship doesn't negate that.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

The overall atmosphere of the story was never what I would call calm. Right from the beginning, it was established that Shepard is a soldier, the Normandy is a warship, and you're on an important and dangerous mission. Having conversations on the ship doesn't negate that.

No, it was established that the mission was covert, but there was no hint of danger or urgency until the distress call.

[JamesFaith]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

People on this forum evidently have a very difficult time understanding basic points, since I never once said or even implied ME 1's intro was bad in any way. I merely said that ME 3 has obligations that ME 1 did not.

You just stated that a game that has the type of intro that ME1 has is pointless and boring. You didn't say ME1 specifically, but you failed to mention that ME1 has said intro that you just disparaged.

To be fair, he specifically speak about building "connection to Earth" in that sentence, ergo it was about ME3. 

David7204 wrote...
Having Shepard walk around and talk to random people in a tragically misguided attempt to build a 'connection' to Earth would be boring and pointless.

[KaiserShep]

Br3ad wrote...

I'm going to have to agree with this. As well, for a story that is supposed to "set the atmosphere for the Reaper Invasion," it sure almost has nothing to do with it. They amount to Earth, Palaven, and Thessia. They are the only parts that even try to deal with the Reapers.

You forgot Tuchanka and Rannoch.

[GreyLycanTrope]

You called it gentle not a few posts earlier. It was established to be a stealth ship on a covert mission not destined for a warzone.

[Br3admax]

KaiserShep wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I'm going to have to agree with this. As well, for a story that is supposed to "set the atmosphere for the Reaper Invasion," it sure almost has nothing to do with it. They amount to Earth, Palaven, and Thessia. They are the only parts that even try to deal with the Reapers.

You forgot Tuchanka and Rannoch.

Tunchunka, eh, They sort of just threw a Reaper in for no reason. Rannoch however, I must admit that I forgot. 

[David7204]

Really? Is that why literally the very first lines of the game were Anderson and Udina discussing who to pick for the mission? Because it wasn't important? Is that why some of the very first lines were characters commenting on a Spectre being present?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The overall atmosphere of the story was never what I would call calm. Right from the beginning, it was established that Shepard is a soldier, the Normandy is a warship, and you're on an important and dangerous mission. Having conversations on the ship doesn't negate that.

Yes.

How does having conversations negate the Reapers invading? Does talking to a few NPC's and getting information and background into the story somehow make the Reapers get bored and decide to invade some other galaxy?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:29 .

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

Tunchunka, eh, They sort of just threw a Reaper in for no reason. Rannoch however, I must admit that I forgot. 

Let me get this straight. You demand that the story be about Reapers, and then when they're included, you whine that "They sort of just threw a Reaper in for no reason"?

Modifié par David7204, 25 septembre 2013 - 01:29 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Really? Is that why literally the very first lines of the game were Anderson and Udina discussing who to pick for the mission? Because it wasn't important? Is that why some of the very first lines were characters commenting on a Spectre being present?

Covert, but there was no vibe of "walking ito a danger zone"

Nihlus, according to Anderson was going to be around for several missions to observe Shepard, this was just the start.