154 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I've already said that the height change of the male elves in DA2 is what concerned me, is what smelled a little bit like "the woman can't be taller than a male partner." I didn't say BW did this consciously or not. As I said before, people cling to a lot of crappy notions without realizing it.

I would say that only "smells" suspicious if you're looking for reasons to be suspicious--I doubt many people even noticed it--but that's merely a comment.

But I don't think "Women are on average shorter than men" is a crappy notion at all since it is founded in reality.

Yes, I'm sure that was merely a comment.

And you still haven't explained why any fictional species in a video game should adhere to reality... especially a reality in which such crappy notions exist.

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...

Well I do mean the actual Bianca since it was hinted at her still being alive

I know  that's what I meant.


Wait. Are we talking about Female Qunari being taller than Male Qunari or being taller than the males from other races? 

Cause if it's the former I'm not sure how anyone could expect that given the art. If it's the latter though yeah them suddenly being shorter than human males would be suckage.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:50 .

[Nightwriter]

Suprez30 wrote...

What make no sense is how every Dwarf , Elf , Human , Qunari have all the same exact same height.

Where are the tall or small human in DA2 ? They're all share the heigh of Hawke ! That make no sense !
Plus they all have the exact same body type !!

When I take a walk in the city .. What I see ? THousand of different people that come in all kind of different shape.

Well, see what Entropic said about grief for the animators and other staff.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:49 .

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Well I do mean the actual Bianca since it was hinted at her still being alive

I know  that's what I meant.

Can't be too sure anymore on BSN 

[Allan Schumacher]

Sabariel wrote...

I didn't say you (or anyone) did it consciously. People cling to a lot of grossly racist and sexist things without even realizing it.

*Must* it have been sexist?

[Kalyppso]

Suprez30 wrote...

What make no sense is how every Dwarf , Elf , Human , Qunari have all the same exact same height.

Where are the tall or small human in DA2 ? They're all share the heigh of Hawke ! That make no sense !

Height differences for NPCs (that are not unique) is new stuff. I know tech is getting upgraded fast, but seriously ... it does make sense if you can appreciate that you're playing a game that doesn't look like this:



Source: Pong on Wikipedia

i'm sure there are more modern examples ... but whatever. @_@

[Ryzaki]

Nightwriter wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

What make no sense is how every Dwarf , Elf , Human , Qunari have all the same exact same height.

Where are the tall or small human in DA2 ? They're all share the heigh of Hawke ! That make no sense !
Plus they all have the exact same body type !!

When I take a walk in the city .. What I see ? THousand of different people that come in all kind of different shape.

Well, see what Entropic said about grief for the animators and other staff.

? In which case shouldn't everyone be the exact same size? We already have to do the taller than you/shorter than you for Male Qunari and dwarven females.

[Sabariel]

In Exile wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I've already said that the height change of the male elves in DA2 is what concerned me, is what smelled a little bit like "the woman can't be taller than a male partner." I didn't say BW did this consciously or not. As I said before, people cling to a lot of crappy notions without realizing it.

I'm confused. 

In DA:O, elves were shorter than humans. Male elves were taller than female elves. Male humans were taller than female humans. Female humans were (as I recall) about the same height as male elves. Male humans were (way) taller than female elves. 

In DA2, elves were "upped" so that they were as tall as humans. Male elves were taller than female elves. Male humans were taller than female humans. Because the cross-race heights were indentical, now male elves were taller than human females. Male humans continued to be taller than female elves.

The games always kept the same sexual dimorphism, so I don't understand what you mean about DA2 "changing" something.

Do you mean to say that the ratio between elves and humans was changed so that, specifically, female humans and male elves would no longer be the same height? 

In DAO, the female PC was taller than one of her male LIs. In DA2, because the elven male height was changed while the female height was not, the female PC was no longer taller than her male LIs while the male PC was taller than his LIs. This, to me, smelled a bit like "the woman must be shorter/can't be taller than a male partner."

And, once again for good measure, I did not say if BW did this consciouslly or not.

And, again again, I don't see why fictional species should have to adhere to The Rules of Real Life.

Modifié par Sabariel, 21 septembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[In Exile]

Sabariel wrote...
In DAO, the female PC was taller than one of her male LIs. In DA2, because the elven male height was changed while the female height was not, the female PC was no longer taller than her male LIs while the male PC was taller than his LIs. This, to me, smelled a bit like "the woman must be shorter/can't be taller than a male partner."

That's not true, at least as far as I can tell. The female elf height was changed in DA2 as far as I can tell. Merrill and Isabella appear to be the same height. Do you have any evidence otherwise?

And, again again, I don't see why fictional species should have to adhere to The Rules of Real Life. 

Yes, I agree here, that's not what I was confused about. 

[sandalisthemaker]

OP, not even I think that having all the males of a race be taller than all the females of the same race, is sexist.
And that's saying something. xD
There will most likely be 1 body model for males and 1 for females of each race, so unless they make them both equal height, all males of a given race will be taller than all females of that same race. That isn't accurate to real life, but If they made the female human model taller than the male one, that means every woman would be taller than every man. This is just not believable at all.
It's necessary due to resources.

[Kalyppso]

Ryzaki wrote...

? In which case shouldn't everyone be the exact same size? We already have to do the taller than you/shorter than you for Male Qunari and dwarven females.

Okay so the modding community covered different heights per race for Skyrim, but even people with no time restrictions have not implemented that sort of diversity to games. I'm sure it's coming, but not in DAI.

[Sabariel]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I didn't say you (or anyone) did it consciously. People cling to a lot of grossly racist and sexist things without even realizing it.

*Must* it have been sexist?

What do you want me to say, exactly?

[Kalyppso]

Sabariel wrote...

And, again again, I don't see why fictional species should have to adhere to The Rules of Real Life.

They don't need to adhere to the The Rules of Real Life ... but they should be reflective of each other. The female elves were still shorter than the male elves. @_@

[Allan Schumacher]

And, once again for good measure, I did not say if BW did this consciouslly or not.

Although you clearly feel that this is why the change was made, whether we consciously did it or not.

So lets break this down (and to other people, I'm in no mood to deal with off topic nonsense in this thread at this time).

You say that females were not made any taller. Is this actually true, or did they they still scale and become taller themselves? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but you have stated that the female elves remained unchanged, so I am curious if this is certain).

What do you want me to say, exactly?

I am saying that you're taking a very specific perspective on what motivated this change, and I'm asking if that may not actually be the case.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 21 septembre 2013 - 03:00 .

[Ryzaki]

Mademon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

? In which case shouldn't everyone be the exact same size? We already have to do the taller than you/shorter than you for Male Qunari and dwarven females.

Okay so the modding community covered different heights per race for Skyrim, but even people with no time restrictions have not implemented that sort of diversity to games. I'm sure it's coming, but not in DAI.

Da hell?

I'm not asking for anything that wasn't already in DAO.

How hard is it for the female Qunari to be taller than human males but shorter than Qunari males. This isn't something that's unheard of (Female Elves are shorter than Human males but taller than Dwarven males).

Just wat.

[Kalyppso]

In Exile wrote...

Sabariel wrote...
In DAO, the female PC was taller than one of her male LIs. In DA2, because the elven male height was changed while the female height was not, the female PC was no longer taller than her male LIs while the male PC was taller than his LIs. This, to me, smelled a bit like "the woman must be shorter/can't be taller than a male partner."

That's not true, at least as far as I can tell. The female elf height was changed in DA2 as far as I can tell. Merrill and Isabella appear to be the same height. Do you have any evidence otherwise?

I don't know how that quoting of mine is going to turn out.

This is the best comparison I can get you on short notice:

Merrill and Isabela Banter

@_@ I never even noticed how short Isabela is // that all the elves seem to be the same height.

[Nightwriter]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

What make no sense is how every Dwarf , Elf , Human , Qunari have all the same exact same height.

Where are the tall or small human in DA2 ? They're all share the heigh of Hawke ! That make no sense !
Plus they all have the exact same body type !!

When I take a walk in the city .. What I see ? THousand of different people that come in all kind of different shape.

Well, see what Entropic said about grief for the animators and other staff.

? In which case shouldn't everyone be the exact same size? We already have to do the taller than you/shorter than you for Male Qunari and dwarven females.

Think it's a matter of extra work vs a lot of extra work.

Keeping in mind I know little about the process (and so probably shouldn't even be speaking on the matter, but why should I let a little matter of not knowing what I'm talking about stop me): for everything you want to apply to every race or person -- a certain armor or animation -- you must go through the steps of fitting it to all the unique models. The more unique models, the more work you have to do.

Skyrim did height sliders but that doesn't seem to be something everyone does yet. Skyrim also had a bit of an advantage in that it had no cutscenes. Imagine having to re-do the same cutscene multiple times to accomodate all height awkwardness.

[In Exile]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
You say that females were not made any taller. Is this actually true, or did they they still scale and become taller themselves? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but you have stated that the female elves remained unchanged, so I am curious if this is certain).

I'm trying to find in-game evidence. If the concept art is to scale, then it suggests that no, the humans and elves are the same height:

http://images4.wikia...6/Da2_races.jpg

[Kalyppso]

Ryzaki wrote...
Da hell?

I'm not asking for anything that wasn't already in DAO.

How hard is it for the female Qunari to be taller than human males but shorter than Qunari males. This isn't something that's unheard of (Female Elves are shorter than Human males but taller than Dwarven males).

Just wat. 

Sorry. Didn't mean to take the conversation so far out in left field. Thought you wanted height differences within racial groups (taller and shorter humans for example). Carry on.

I am all for what you're suggesting! d:

[Ryzaki]

Nightwriter wrote...
Think it's a matter of extra work vs a lot of extra work.

Keeping in mind I know little about the process (and so probably shouldn't even be speaking on the matter, but why should I let a little matter of not knowing what I'm talking about stop me): for everything you want to apply to every race or person -- a certain armor or animation -- you must go through the steps of fitting it to all the unique models. The more unique models, the more work you have to do.

Skyrim did height sliders but that doesn't seem to be something everyone does yet. Skyrim also had a bit of an advantage in that it had no cutscenes. Imagine having to re-do the same cutscene multiple times to accomodate all height awkwardness.

So changing the camera so it does the same thing it should almost already do for male qunari is a lot of extra work? Really?

And it's one more unique model. I mean using your arguement they shouldn't have a dwarf or elf protagonist (unless elf females and human females are the same size now.) and qunari males pose the same issue.

They already have to do that thanks to multiple race protagonists.

@Made: LOL I was confused for a sec XD

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 septembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[DPSSOC]

Sabariel wrote...
I've already said that the height change of the male elves in DA2 is what concerned me, is what smelled a little bit like "the woman can't be taller than a male partner."

 
Based on what exactly?  Beyond that it happened I mean.  Aside from the fact the male elves are now as tall as female humans was there anything else to suggest the developers intended to disempower female PC's?

Sabariel wrote...
I didn't say BW did this consciously or not. As I said before, people cling to a lot of crappy notions without realizing it.

Than why do you keep accusing them of intentionally making male elves taller?  You said, and I'll post the quote if you want, that Bioware made the male elves taller while leaving female elves the same size, specifically to cater to this notion that men must be taller than women.