1256 réponses à ce sujet

[Trafalgar-Law]

So basically, this is yet another example of our choices not mattering in the slightest. Wonderful.

[TK514]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering an independent Dales would be the only safe haven for elves in a continent occupied by humans in societies where Dalish elves are either hunted down or Alienage elves are restricted to ghettos where they can be massacred down to the children any time they protest their plight, I don't see how it fits the parameters of 'ethnic cleansing' to give the elves a safe community where they can truly be free.

While I don't necessarily have an issue with the idea of a theoretical elven homeland where children can run around etc, I don't think the Dales is the place for it.

Way back when the elves were 'gifted' the Dales as a new homeland, their neighbors were, in the main, scattered tribes, or newly founded nations at best.  The Dales shared borders only in the loosest sense, and there was a degree of seperation between them an the various human groups around them.

That is no longer the case.  Now they aren't just surrounded by human nations, they've been part of a human nation longer than they were independent.  Even if we were to imagine that they could somehow unite and wrest this parcel of land away from its current owners, the elves would be right back where they were when they lost it the first time; surrounded by humanity.  An openly hostile humanity, at that.

The only way the elves are going to be able to find a new homeland where they can live peaceful, human-free lives will be if they go somewhere else.  Either finding a spot on the outer edges of human controlled Thedas that no one wants, or, preferably, off the continent altogether.  Somewhere new and unsettled.

But plopping yourself down in a formerly human controlled area, kicking all the humans out, yet remaining surrounded by humans?  That's just begging for history to repeat itself.

[TTTX]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

sorry completely untrue, just look at the "Holy Bible" what version are we current;y using? it seems that every year they change the wording of the bible, I know at least 3 diferent changes, 1968, 1982, 1993, all with different words and how the infomation is given. Each with there own changes. That also not counting versions like "The living Bible" and the likes, So just because it's writen in books doesn't mean it can't change.

Also as the saying goes, History is writen by the victor. A 100% neutrual history is pretty much unheard of.

Just because there are drifferent versions of a book in this case the bible doesn't mean they are going recall all the bibles in the world and change them to make them just as right when a newer/drifferent version comes.

That's why a book once written is most likely isn't going to be changed (as in the version that has come out), but there can come newer and different version of that book.

You are right on the neutral story though

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

sorry completely untrue, just look at the "Holy Bible" what version are we current;y using? it seems that every year they change the wording of the bible, I know at least 3 diferent changes, 1968, 1982, 1993, all with different words and how the infomation is given. Each with there own changes. That also not counting versions like "The living Bible" and the likes, So just because it's writen in books doesn't mean it can't change.

Also as the saying goes, History is writen by the victor. A 100% neutrual history is pretty much unheard of.

And how do you know that? Because you still have acess to the original, that's why.

New books may change things - it usually because books are often translations and with better understanding one can translate better - but the original remains unchanged.
And if oyu have acess to the original, not only do you have acess to the original source, you also have acess to various changes trought history, which can be a interesting source of information themselves.

[ianvillan]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering an independent Dales would be the only safe haven for elves in a continent occupied by humans in societies where Dalish elves are either hunted down or Alienage elves are restricted to ghettos where they can be massacred down to the children any time they protest their plight, I don't see how it fits the parameters of 'ethnic cleansing' to give the elves a safe community where they can truly be free.

Violent prosecution of elves is why I want to give them a sanctuary with a Dalish Inquisitor, especially when it seems there's an elven rebellion stirring in occupied Dales. A homeland would give them safety and security from a society that is violently hostile towards heathens and denigrates elves as less than people.

It is not the "Occupied Dales"...it's just Orlais. The people of the Dales have been long gone. The only elves living there now are city elves. They are not elves of the Dales anymore, they are Orleisan elves.

There's nothing special about the Dales in terms of being a haven for elves. If you wanted to expel all the native humans from somewhere to repopulate it with elves, you could theoretically do that anywhere.

The idea of ending violent persecution for elves by "retaking the Dales" is would inherently invovle violent persecution of humans.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Relocation doesn't mandate death.

It will still result in mass death and destruction. It is inevitable. It is impossible to carry out forcible removal of an entire population without it.

Lost culture and heritage are important to the Dalish and maybe to some of the city Elves and the dales being the last homeland with which the Elves were a whole race is important to help them regain there identity. To travel to a far away place which you have no idea could support your race with non of your lost heritage to reclaim and unknown dangers that could destroy your people before you had built your nation is just too much of a risk when you can reclaim your old homeland with it some of your lost heritage that could unite your race again.

[ianvillan]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are of course aware of the fact, that all the information about the Dales and the Exalted March taht we got available, are from human sources, right? The fact that we know of the border disputes prior to the war, is thanks to the human historians, that the Chantry falsely (presumably) claimed the Dalish made human sacrifices is also, from a human historian. Basically all the useful knowledge about that period, comes from humans. The Dalish has contributed with nothing useful in solving the mystery of what truly happened in that time.

The Elves contributed nothing because there lore and history and whatever writing sources they had from that time was destroyed by the Chantry and all the Chantry left to come out was the Chantry approved Human versions of events.

For all we know there might of been Elven or Human accounts that painted the Chantry in the wrong but it was destroyed by the Chantry to make them look better.

[dragondreamer]

ianvillan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are of course aware of the fact, that all the information about the Dales and the Exalted March taht we got available, are from human sources, right? The fact that we know of the border disputes prior to the war, is thanks to the human historians, that the Chantry falsely (presumably) claimed the Dalish made human sacrifices is also, from a human historian. Basically all the useful knowledge about that period, comes from humans. The Dalish has contributed with nothing useful in solving the mystery of what truly happened in that time.

The Elves contributed nothing because there lore and history and whatever writing sources they had from that time was destroyed by the Chantry and all the Chantry left to come out was the Chantry approved Human versions of events.

For all we know there might of been Elven or Human accounts that painted the Chantry in the wrong but it was destroyed by the Chantry to make them look better.

You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.
Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.
But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.
We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive.
--"The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
http://dragonage.wik...ntry:_The_Dales

[ianvillan]

dragondreamer wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are of course aware of the fact, that all the information about the Dales and the Exalted March taht we got available, are from human sources, right? The fact that we know of the border disputes prior to the war, is thanks to the human historians, that the Chantry falsely (presumably) claimed the Dalish made human sacrifices is also, from a human historian. Basically all the useful knowledge about that period, comes from humans. The Dalish has contributed with nothing useful in solving the mystery of what truly happened in that time.

The Elves contributed nothing because there lore and history and whatever writing sources they had from that time was destroyed by the Chantry and all the Chantry left to come out was the Chantry approved Human versions of events.

For all we know there might of been Elven or Human accounts that painted the Chantry in the wrong but it was destroyed by the Chantry to make them look better.

You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.
Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.
But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.
We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive.
--"The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
http://dragonage.wik...ntry:_The_Dales

Yes but that is a tale passed down the generations of the Dalish where are the historical writings from the Elves that could contribute to what happened. People will dismiss verbal tales as being unreliable because of change and personal feeling of the teller.

When the chantry scholars who compile the research and write what happens what is the only information from the time period they have access to, Human writing probably written with Human prejudices and feeling in mind. 

[Heimdall]

ianvillan wrote...

Yes but that is a tale passed down the generations of the Dalish where are the historical writings from the Elves that could contribute to what happened. People will dismiss verbal tales as being unreliable because of change and personal feeling of the teller.

When the chantry scholars who compile the research and write what happens what is the only information from the time period they have access to, Human writing probably written with Human prejudices and feeling in mind. 

So what you're saying is that elven sources are biased and unreliable and human sources... Are biased and unreliable?

[azarhal]

ianvillan wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are of course aware of the fact, that all the information about the Dales and the Exalted March taht we got available, are from human sources, right? The fact that we know of the border disputes prior to the war, is thanks to the human historians, that the Chantry falsely (presumably) claimed the Dalish made human sacrifices is also, from a human historian. Basically all the useful knowledge about that period, comes from humans. The Dalish has contributed with nothing useful in solving the mystery of what truly happened in that time.

The Elves contributed nothing because there lore and history and whatever writing sources they had from that time was destroyed by the Chantry and all the Chantry left to come out was the Chantry approved Human versions of events.

For all we know there might of been Elven or Human accounts that painted the Chantry in the wrong but it was destroyed by the Chantry to make them look better.

You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.
Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.
But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.
We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive.
--"The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
http://dragonage.wik...ntry:_The_Dales

Yes but that is a tale passed down the generations of the Dalish where are the historical writings from the Elves that could contribute to what happened. People will dismiss verbal tales as being unreliable because of change and personal feeling of the teller.

When the chantry scholars who compile the research and write what happens what is the only information from the time period they have access to, Human writing probably written with Human prejudices and feeling in mind. 

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

[maliluka]

azarhal wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are of course aware of the fact, that all the information about the Dales and the Exalted March taht we got available, are from human sources, right? The fact that we know of the border disputes prior to the war, is thanks to the human historians, that the Chantry falsely (presumably) claimed the Dalish made human sacrifices is also, from a human historian. Basically all the useful knowledge about that period, comes from humans. The Dalish has contributed with nothing useful in solving the mystery of what truly happened in that time.

The Elves contributed nothing because there lore and history and whatever writing sources they had from that time was destroyed by the Chantry and all the Chantry left to come out was the Chantry approved Human versions of events.

For all we know there might of been Elven or Human accounts that painted the Chantry in the wrong but it was destroyed by the Chantry to make them look better.

You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires.But we stayed with our so-called allies until the war ended. Our reward: A land in southern Orlais called the Dales. So we began the Long Walk to our new home.
Halamshiral, "the end of the journey," was our capital, built out of the reach of the humans. We could once again forget the incessant passage of time. Our people began the slow process of recovering the culture and traditions we had lost to slavery.
But it was not to last. The Chantry first sent missionaries into the Dales, and then, when those were thrown out, templars. We were driven from Halamshiral, scattered. Some took refuge in the cities of the shemlen, living in squalor, tolerated only a little better than vermin.
We took a different path. We took to the wilderness, never stopping long enough to draw the notice of our shemlen neighbors. In our self-imposed exile, we kept what remained of elven knowledge and culture alive.
--"The End of the Long Walk," as told by Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
http://dragonage.wik...ntry:_The_Dales

Yes but that is a tale passed down the generations of the Dalish where are the historical writings from the Elves that could contribute to what happened. People will dismiss verbal tales as being unreliable because of change and personal feeling of the teller.

When the chantry scholars who compile the research and write what happens what is the only information from the time period they have access to, Human writing probably written with Human prejudices and feeling in mind. 

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

Isnt this referenced to the point where the elves (who at the time were slaves under the Tevinter emperium) had followed Shartan to band together with Andastre against the Tevinter Magisters.  This is after the elves had already lost Arlanthan.

And the Chantry isn't not only vile, its hypocritical you get the support of the Elves and when you cant turn them to the religion you want you take away their lands again and strike the Chanticle of Shartan from your stanza as if it didn't exist

[LobselVith8]

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 25 septembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[ianvillan]

Lord Aesir wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Yes but that is a tale passed down the generations of the Dalish where are the historical writings from the Elves that could contribute to what happened. People will dismiss verbal tales as being unreliable because of change and personal feeling of the teller.

When the chantry scholars who compile the research and write what happens what is the only information from the time period they have access to, Human writing probably written with Human prejudices and feeling in mind. 

So what you're saying is that elven sources are biased and unreliable and human sources... Are biased and unreliable?

yes both sides are biased and unreliable, but when you have only got one sides biased writings from the time period you shouldn't accept modern researchers accounts of what happened when that is what they use.

[Uccio]

Books and comics should have their own forum.

[AlexanderCousland]

The writing team is brilliant lol. Take example' s from both sides of the argument here and apply them to similar circumstances from our own world and I'd assume SOME people would reevaluate their positions.

[ianvillan]

FreshIstay wrote...

The writing team is brilliant lol. Take example' s from both sides of the argument here and apply them to similar circumstances from our own world and I'd assume SOME people would reevaluate their positions.

Its much easier to see the good or bad in certain positions when there is zero chance of you being affected by the outcome.

[azarhal]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like.

[Reaverwind]

azarhal wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like.

Both versions are definitely biased. However, the human version does suggest more than one factor was in play, and the elven version is curiously devoid of battlefield accounts.

[LinksOcarina]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing "set off" anything. Massive international conflicts do not occur in a vacuum. The mage-templar was is the result of a thousand years of increasing tensions. It was inevitable.

Yes, but that just means a different spark later might have set it off.  What sparked off this war was Asunder, in a situation primed for conflict by Kirkwall, after a thousand years of build up.

Think of it as the American Civil War, which was basically inevitable since 1848, because of the influx of slave/free state disparities, the Mexican-American war treaty, the Great Compromise is around the corner, and so forth.

The U.S congress kicked that can down the road so much, they prevented the war from starting earlier at least five times before 1860 set it off. 

I see some parallels to this in the Mage-Templar war. The stage was set because of major incidents and acts of terrorism. Anders is the John Brown of magekind, and the events of Asunder is the attack on Fort Sumpter. 

[ianvillan]

azarhal wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like.

A detailed account according to whom, the Chantry who would in no way omit details or fabricate claims to suit there needs.

What details does it provide about the Orlisan battles in the war, all it says is how the Elves who were sacrificing Humans did an attack against a defenceless town so they called and exulted march. Is their an account about the attack on the Dales by the Orlisans and what was involved or about what happened in the peace treaty etc. All we get is a story how an innocent and defenceless Orlais was attacked and was charitable and merciful to the Elves in victory.

[LobselVith8]

azarhal wrote...

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

You mean it provides rumors about the elves to paint them in a bad light and claims that the attack on Red Crossing was unprovoked, while the Dalish claim their sovereign territory was invaded by templars because they kicked out the missionaries from the Chantry, and even the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert.

azarhal wrote...

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like. 

Providing "rumors" of human sacrifice to vilify the elves and acting as though illegalizing the elven religion and giving elves ghettos to live in makes them altruistic benefactors, then it is biased.

[ianvillan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

azarhal wrote...

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

You mean it provides rumors about the elves to paint them in a bad light and claims that the attack on Red Crossing was unprovoked, while the Dalish claim their sovereign territory was invaded by templars because they kicked out the missionaries from the Chantry, and even the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert.

azarhal wrote...

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like. 

Providing "rumors" of human sacrifice to vilify the elves and acting as though illegalizing the elven religion and giving elves ghettos to live in makes them altruistic benefactors, then it is biased.

Even Brother Genivis says that Orlais has slavery, they just call it by another name. So after you defeat the Elves you and wipe out their cities you destroy their culture and history and enslave their race yet in the only histories you allow you claim you are charitable. These are the same people who we are to take their word for in all that happened.

Modifié par ianvillan, 25 septembre 2013 - 05:40 .

[azarhal]

ianvillan wrote...

azarhal wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like.

A detailed account according to whom, the Chantry who would in no way omit details or fabricate claims to suit there needs.

What details does it provide about the Orlisan battles in the war, all it says is how the Elves who were sacrificing Humans did an attack against a defenceless town so they called and exulted march. Is their an account about the attack on the Dales by the Orlisans and what was involved or about what happened in the peace treaty etc. All we get is a story how an innocent and defenceless Orlais was attacked and was charitable and merciful to the Elves in victory.

A detailed account is an account that, you know, mention details about the event(s) it is referencing to.

The elves got a tiny tale that span 400 years and paint them as being totally defenseless when the Templars came. Not a single details about their actions in a war that lasted a decade.

The Chantry has multiple entries talking about the war with the Dales. One mentions the attack on Red Crossing which started the war on the Orlesian side from their point-of-view. Another, mention elves taking over Montsimmard and the elves sacking Val-Royaux (World of Thedas) later in the war.

Yes, the Chantry has the winner version labelled everywhere, but it mention historical events that happened in the war, while the elvish tales skip everything beside the ending.

[ianvillan]

azarhal wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

azarhal wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish also write down their stories, as Gisharel wrote some narratives. Merrill collected lore about the Eluvian, for example. It's not all oral information.

azarhal wrote...

That tale in a few lines jump from the death of Andraste, to elves being removed from Halamshiral to them becoming City Elves or Dalish. That didn't happen overnight. It's 400 years of history condensed into "We are poor defenseless Elves and the Chantry is evil" tale.

As opposed to the Andrastian Chantry version that vilifies the elves and promotes the Chantry of Andraste as altruistic and beneficial.

The elven tale do not provide a detailed account of what happened, it skip everything about the conflict to focus on the elven love for playing victims. The Chantry version provide a detailed account of what happened.

If you believe the group that skip the entire war to go the conclusion be my guess, but don't go saying that the Chantry is biased just because it actually provide details...that you don't like.

A detailed account according to whom, the Chantry who would in no way omit details or fabricate claims to suit there needs.

What details does it provide about the Orlisan battles in the war, all it says is how the Elves who were sacrificing Humans did an attack against a defenceless town so they called and exulted march. Is their an account about the attack on the Dales by the Orlisans and what was involved or about what happened in the peace treaty etc. All we get is a story how an innocent and defenceless Orlais was attacked and was charitable and merciful to the Elves in victory.

A detailed account is an account that, you know, mention details about the event(s) it is referencing to.

The elves got a tiny tale that span 400 years and paint them as being totally defenseless when the Templars came. Not a single details about their actions in a war that lasted a decade.

The Chantry has multiple entries talking about the war with the Dales. One mentions the attack on Red Crossing which started the war on the Orlesian side from their point-of-view. Another, mention elves taking over Montsimmard and the elves sacking Val-Royaux (World of Thedas) later in the war.

Yes, the Chantry has the winner version labelled everywhere, but it mention historical events that happened in the war, while the elvish tales skip everything beside the ending.

How do we know the historical events are true and accurate. How can you confirm they are true if you don't have any elven accounts to at least compare them to. Are these historical accounts the same ones that portray the elves as human sacrificing savages while the people of Orlais are merciful, blameless and defenceless in the whole ordeal if yes then I seriously doubt the accuracy of the accounts.

[cjones91]

Ukki wrote...

Books and comics should have their own forum.

Why?Despite what some fans like to believe the books and comics are part of the DA setting and overall story.