1256 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing "set off" anything. Massive international conflicts do not occur in a vacuum. The mage-templar was is the result of a thousand years of increasing tensions. It was inevitable.

I got the idea that its the last 400 years. in the last 400 years no major blights or wars occured that allowed mages to gain privileges

[jtav]

I get the sense that severe problems are fairly recent. It seems at one time the templar/mage relationship was less adversarial. Men like Maurevar Carver had to come from somewhere.

[t0mm06]

Karlone123 wrote...

Anyone who hasn't read Asunder will probably not know that events in that adventure is what set off the Mage-Templar War, and would think that Anders destoying the Chantry in Kirkwall and the Meredith calling for the Right of Annulment. But would you say that what happened in Kirkwall at the end, set in motion for the Mage-Templat War?

Note:I have not read Asunder yet, but know the most important thing, but I may be missing on some things.

I think the events of Asunder we're not exactly 'These events started the War'  it more, Kirkwall started it, and something similar to Asunder was happening i most of the circles because of it, and it just happened that it was the circle in Asunder where the final tipping point was (and thats only because thats where the mages were assembled, if they had assembled at a different circle it could well have been that one that 'started' the war. 

[azarhal]

myahele wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

So Hawke, the person Bioware described as "the single most important character in the world of Dragon Age," becomes even more irrelevant.

So much for the "rise to power."

Well the only "Power" Hawke really rose to was Champion of Kirkwall

After watching dawn of the seeker I am even less impressed by Hawke. I would think that Cassandra is more of an important person than Hawke

The Rise to Power was about becoming the Champion of Kirkwall after rising from nothing but a refugees to Kirkwall #1 citizen in a few years.

Hawke was never meant to be "the single most important character in the world of Dragon Age" the way people think. First, that's a bit of a in-game point-of-vew in the sense that everyone blame Hawke for the Mage/Templar war. We, the players, know it's not true because we got Varric's true story of the events, something the other in-game characters don't have the chance to see/hear (beside Cassandra).

Second, Hawke is officially credited for discovering Red Lyrium, which in turn brought the creation of the Red Templars and who know what else...

[Angrywolves]

DA2 was a crock.
Nothing hawke did really mattered.
Don't intend to read Gaider's books or comic .
The DA wiki has a brief synopsis.
The break had been coming for some time.
You can see it coming with Uldred and the events in the tower.

[Silfren]

Angrywolves wrote...

DA2 was a crock.
Nothing hawke did really mattered.
Don't intend to read Gaider's books or comic .
The DA wiki has a brief synopsis.
The break had been coming for some time.
You can see it coming with Uldred and the events in the tower.

Nothing Hawke did was supposed to matter.  That her efforts were futile was the entire point.  I get that not a lot of people like that kind of narrative, but that's the kind of story that DA2 was, and the kind of story that Bioware wanted to tell.

If I may ask, why do you not intend to read Gaider's books?  I understand just not wanting to read in general, but if you do like to read, I don't at all understand the refusal.  

[Lokiwithrope]

Dragon Age II got the wheel rolling. Asunder smashed that wheel.

[Augustei]

Actually the events in Kirkwall aren't even what started it at all, it was Fiona's election to the position of Grand Enchanter back in like 9:31 dragon, She was a Libertarians and began pushing for the circle to become independent from the chantry, there was a vote you may recall Wynne mentioning in Dragon Age Awakening which was her first attempt.

After that failed attempt the templar's grew concerned by the amount of power the Libertarians were gaining so they disallowed any meetings of the mages and began to take away some of the mages rights. Then enter 9:40 Dragon and Asunder where a right for tranquility is discovered and The Divine allows a meeting of senior mages so discuss the implicaitons etc.. Except Fiona uses this as an opportunity for another vote for independence.... and well it all deteriorated from there

So yeah... Kirkwall didn't get the wheel rolling, Fiona and the Libertarians did =D

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 21 septembre 2013 - 03:34 .

[Mr.House]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Actually the events in Kirkwall aren't even what started it at all, it was Fiona's election to the position of Grand Enchanter back in like 9:31 dragon, She was a Libertarians and began pushing for the circle to become independent from the chantry, there was a vote you may recall Wynne mentioning in Dragon Age Awakening which was her first attempt.

After that failed attempt the templar's grew concerned by the amount of power the Libertarians were gaining so they disallowed any meetings of the mages and began to take away some of the mages rights. Then enter 9:40 Dragon and Asunder where a right for tranquility is discovered and The Divine allows a meeting of senior mages so discuss the implicaitons etc.. Except Fiona uses this as an opportunity for another vote for independence.... and well it all deteriorated from there

So yeah... Kirkwall didn't get the wheel rolling, Fiona and the Libertarians did =D

Can't wait to put her head on a pike. Dam Libertarians.

[Heimdall]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Actually the events in Kirkwall aren't even what started it at all, it was Fiona's election to the position of Grand Enchanter back in like 9:31 dragon, She was a Libertarians and began pushing for the circle to become independent from the chantry, there was a vote you may recall Wynne mentioning in Dragon Age Awakening which was her first attempt.

After that failed attempt the templar's grew concerned by the amount of power the Libertarians were gaining so they disallowed any meetings of the mages and began to take away some of the mages rights. Then enter 9:40 Dragon and Asunder where a right for tranquility is discovered and The Divine allows a meeting of senior mages so discuss the implicaitons etc.. Except Fiona uses this as an opportunity for another vote for independence.... and well it all deteriorated from there

So yeah... Kirkwall didn't get the wheel rolling, Fiona and the Libertarians did =D

The two are not unrelated.  According to Asunder, the ease with which the Templars could invoke annulment demonstrated in Kirkwall gave new vigor to the Libertarian cause and swayed many otherwise complacent members.  The Libertarians owe their momentum to Kirkwall.

[jmk1999]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Dragon Age II got the wheel rolling. Asunder smashed that wheel.

that metophore doesn't make any sense in this context. you're saying asunder prevents the resulting outcome of DA2.

[Lokiwithrope]

jmk1999 wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Dragon Age II got the wheel rolling. Asunder smashed that wheel.

that metophore doesn't make any sense in this context. you're saying asunder prevents the resulting outcome of DA2.

That's me. Making completely illogical statements at every turn.

[Silfren]

jmk1999 wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Dragon Age II got the wheel rolling. Asunder smashed that wheel.

that metophore doesn't make any sense in this context. you're saying asunder prevents the resulting outcome of DA2.

Erm....the metaphor makes perfect sense...the wheel was the status quo--the fragile relationship between mages and templars that was already strained.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But... aren't wheels are supposed to role? They are not supposed to be smashed.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 22 septembre 2013 - 01:08 .

[Nashiktal]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

But... aren't wheels are supposed to role? They are not supposed to be smashed.

You are probably being silly but just in case you are being serious... That's the point. The wheel turning represents a change in the status quo, that things are moving. The wheel being smashed is the status quo being completely destroyed. As in not even a factor anymore.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 22 septembre 2013 - 01:39 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But a wheel being smashed is not the natural conclusion of a wheel rolling.

[Vit246]

Why wasn't DA2 = Asunder? Why Kirkwall?

[cjones91]

Vit246 wrote...

Why wasn't DA2 = Asunder? Why Kirkwall?

Because Kirkwall was the place that brought the tensions to the surface.

[Ieolus]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

But a wheel being smashed is not the natural conclusion of a wheel rolling.

It is when the wheel is rolling downhill at uncontrollable speeds and heading for the rocks.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I guess, but that's not normally where wheels roll too. It's a confusing metaphor.

[Ieolus]

I yield to the wisdom of a Jedi master in these matters.

[Lokiwithrope]

I'm surprised my terrible metaphor actually started a conversation of it being terrible or not.

[Ieolus]

I think they exhausted the discussion as to whether Asunder or Kirkwall kicked off the war.

[dragonflight288]

DKJaigen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing "set off" anything. Massive international conflicts do not occur in a vacuum. The mage-templar was is the result of a thousand years of increasing tensions. It was inevitable.

I got the idea that its the last 400 years. in the last 400 years no major blights or wars occured that allowed mages to gain privileges

I have been studying the lore quite a lot recently, and I have noticed a certain discrepency when it came to the Circles.

Did you know that it was only after the third blight, the time that the Grey Wardens became politically neutral I might add, that most of the anti-mage propaganda started being spewed?

I believe that the mages started getting the short end of the staff as the Chantry and the templars gained more power and authority over them, and less accountability. It took over a hundred years before Tranquillity was introduced, and two hundred before the Right of Annulment became something to be authorized...by a Grand Cleric who may or may not ever set foot inside a Circle.

Giving the templars and Chantry more power over mages, over time, removing their accountability, and it was only inevitable that what happened in Kirkwall and Asunder happened, just as it was only inevitable that the templars began to believe that they had authority over mages by dvine right, and not because they simply took it by inches, when the original Circle agreement had the Circles run by a council of Enchanters and the templars were there to guard and advise only.

[Ieolus]

dragonflight288 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Nothing "set off" anything. Massive international conflicts do not occur in a vacuum. The mage-templar was is the result of a thousand years of increasing tensions. It was inevitable.

I got the idea that its the last 400 years. in the last 400 years no major blights or wars occured that allowed mages to gain privileges

I have been studying the lore quite a lot recently, and I have noticed a certain discrepency when it came to the Circles.

Did you know that it was only after the third blight, the time that the Grey Wardens became politically neutral I might add, that most of the anti-mage propaganda started being spewed?

I believe that the mages started getting the short end of the staff as the Chantry and the templars gained more power and authority over them, and less accountability. It took over a hundred years before Tranquillity was introduced, and two hundred before the Right of Annulment became something to be authorized...by a Grand Cleric who may or may not ever set foot inside a Circle.

Giving the templars and Chantry more power over mages, over time, removing their accountability, and it was only inevitable that what happened in Kirkwall and Asunder happened, just as it was only inevitable that the templars began to believe that they had authority over mages by dvine right, and not because they simply took it by inches, when the original Circle agreement had the Circles run by a council of Enchanters and the templars were there to guard and advise only.

So the Grey Wardens were a check on the Chantry's influence, atleast over the Circle?  Interesting observation.