1256 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Exalted Marches are Crusades; they're a rallying of the faithful of Andraste from all walks of life.

It isn't a mass recruitment of Templars and they are most likely not headed by a Templar, but the individual nations contributing coordinating with eachother..

[Bleachrude]

cjones91 wrote...
Most templars are recruited from armies and other military groups.

Er no. Most templars are either orphans left at the chantry doorstep or the 3rd and 4th sons of nobility ...

Secondly the exalted march are supposed to be like crusades and while in real life, the vatican had its own military branch so to speak, the vast majority (90%) of the troops were the armies of the nations that answered the call...

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote…

I know he does, but the simple fact is that they're scattered throughout the countryside or required to man their posts in the Circles most of the time.  They are armed and armored, but hardly a standing army.  They have never been employed as such and know little about waging wars.

<_

...Which were fought by the armies of Andrastrian nations, not the Templars.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:42 .

[Heimdall]

cjones91 wrote...

How so?Not every templar is a sheltered choir boy and I'm sure most have been in battle before.

Which was not the point of my post.

[Heimdall]

LobselVith8 wrote...

They are involved with each other. Orlais became openly involved with attacking the elves after the elven attack on Red Crossing. If templars were invading the Dales to force conversion, the elves could have been focusing on the source of the templar incursion.

A lot of supposition.  For starters, the Templars simply do not have the manpower available for attacks on the Dales.  As I've said before, the only places that tend to have the sort of manpower required for that sort of action are Circles, where they are otherwise occupied as we saw in Origins.  They don't have time to play soldier, even during a Blight.  The idea that they would have the manpower to mount an incursion of any real size just after a Blight is a bit silly.

If the Templars entered the Dales, it was not to attack the elves.  If the elves thought the best way to resolve the issue was to attack an Orlesian town, that's their idiocy.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:52 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think I read somewhere that the templars as a whole can function as an army. But they don't act to invade anywhere unless the Divine calls an Exalted March. Those don't happen very often. the overwhelming majority of the time they are simply guards of mages and Chantries or sent to hunt abominations and apostates.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:44 .

[Heimdall]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think I read somewhere that the templars as a whole can function as an army. But they don't act to invade anywhere unless the Divine calls an Exalted March. Those don't happen very often. the overwhelming majority of the time they are simply guards of mages and Chantries or sent to hunt abominations and apostates.

Even during Marches, most of the fighting appears to be done by the standing armies of Andrastrian Kings.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's true, but I think they'd help. Especially if some of their mage charges also enter the fight.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:49 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote…

I know he does, but the simple fact is that they're scattered throughout the countryside or required to man their posts in the Circles most of the time.  They are armed and armored, but hardly a standing army.  They have never been employed as such and know little about waging wars.

<_

...Which were fought by the armies of Andrastrian nations, not the Templars

The Dragon Age encyclopedia officially describes an Exalted March :

A Chantry led campaign to stop ANY significant threat to Thedas, especially the rule of the Maker.

It also describes Templar' s as "mostly male warrior's" and the only place where Males are allowed to lead within Chantry.

We also know Templar' s fall under Seeker authority, Seeker' s are described as the "Authoritative arm" of the Chantry, and your seriously trying to contend Templar' s have no military experience with waging wars as a standing army...dude stfu.

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...
The Dragon Age encyclopedia officially describes an Exalted March :
A Chantry led campaign to stop ANY significant threat to Thedas, especially the rule of the Maker.
It also describes Templar' s as "mostly male warrior's" and the only place where Males are allowed to lead within Chantry.

We also know Templar' s fall under Seeker authority, Seeker' s are described as the "Authoritative arm" of the Chantry, and your seriously trying to contend Templar' s have no military experience with waging wars as a standing army...dude stfu.

...Did you actually read that before you posted it?  The Divine gives out the call to action.  That much was never in question, so yes it is Chantry led, but at no point does what you wrote say "All the nations of Thedas submit their armies to the authority of the Templars".  Which would be extremely unlikely, as the kings of Thedas are not in the habit of submitting to anyone without raising hell.  If the Templars don't have the manpower to guard the mages and lend troops to fight the Blight, why do you think they would have enough spare to invade nations?

Find me one, one! Example of the Templars fighting in an Exalted March.  So you sir, can stfu <_<

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 02:00 .

[Daerog]

FreshIstay wrote...

The Dragon Age encyclopedia officially describes an Exalted March :

A Chantry led campaign to stop ANY significant threat to Thedas, especially the rule of the Maker.

It also describes Templar' s as "mostly male warrior's" and the only place where Males are allowed to lead within Chantry.

We also know Templar' s fall under Seeker authority, Seeker' s are described as the "Authoritative arm" of the Chantry, and your seriously trying to contend Templar' s have no military experience with waging wars as a standing army...dude stfu.

Chantry makes the call... doesn't mean they have enough generals to organize all the armies being used, other nations likely have a large part of it, but the specifics of what happens in the Exalted Marches is unknown, just the general overviews.

Templars are also specially trained to handle mages, trained for years to handle mages and possibly demons. Fighting in other matters, like siege warfare or even naval warfare, likely is not a good place for them. This is why the Chantry calls for Exalted Marches, because they need the other nations to wage a campaign, although it is the Chantry that gives the war some overall purpose.

While they may have experience waging war, they are not in a position to do it on their own.



Anyway, that is what I thought before they showed Red Templars laying siege to a keep and having a lot of boats for naval landings. Woo, they seemed really set to actually wage an all out war that they are not normally trained/specialized in.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, the only example I can think of is the Exalted March on The Dales. And everybody seems to think codex means the templars were fighting in the Dales before the war started so other than that I have no specific examples.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 septembre 2013 - 02:02 .

[Heimdall]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Chantry makes the call... doesn't mean they have enough generals to organize all the armies being used, other nations likely have a large part of it, but the specifics of what happens in the Exalted Marches is unknown, just the general overviews.

Templars are also specially trained to handle mages, trained for years to handle mages and possibly demons. Fighting in other matters, like siege warfare or even naval warfare, likely is not a good place for them. This is why the Chantry calls for Exalted Marches, because they need the other nations to wage a campaign, although it is the Chantry that gives the war some overall purpose.

While they may have experience waging war, they are not in a position to do it on their own.

Anyway, that is what I thought before they showed Red Templars laying siege to a keep and having a lot of boats for naval landings. Woo, they seemed really set to actually wage an all out war that they are not normally trained/specialized in.

Well, who knows who the Red Templars are working for.  And the Templars don't have to hold back manpower to watch the mages anymore

[Heimdall]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

That's true, but I think they'd help. Especially if some of their mage charges also enter the fight.

I wouldn't rule out a small group assigned the duty of watching over Mages that accompanied the King's army, but like I said, not as a standing army.

[Daerog]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Well, who knows who the Red Templars are working for.  And the Templars don't have to hold back manpower to watch the mages anymore

Good point.

Still, I wonder how much the mages and Templars bumbled around and how many mercenaries and strategists they had to recruit until they were able to wage war at the same level as all the other nations of Thedas. I don't think the mages learned about siege warfare... other than the thought "Hey, how about we just do a bunch of fireballs, infernos, and a blizzard? That could work, right?" Templars didn't need to be trained for naval warfare or laying siege to castles, they had to either learn by winging it or got some specialists involved who sympathized with the Templars.

However, as you pointed out, these are red Templars and not the usual kind so who knows what makes them different other than the red kryptonite.

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
The Dragon Age encyclopedia officially describes an Exalted March :
A Chantry led campaign to stop ANY significant threat to Thedas, especially the rule of the Maker.
It also describes Templar' s as "mostly male warrior's" and the only place where Males are allowed to lead within Chantry.

We also know Templar' s fall under Seeker authority, Seeker' s are described as the "Authoritative arm" of the Chantry, and your seriously trying to contend Templar' s have no military experience with waging wars as a standing army...dude stfu.

...Did you actually read that before you posted it?  The Divine gives out the call to action.  That much was never in question, so yes it is Chantry led, but at no point does what you wrote say "All the nations of Thedas submit their armies to the authority of the Templars".  Which would be extremely unlikely, as the kings of Thedas are not in the habit of submitting to anyone without raising hell.  If the Templars don't have the manpower to guard the mages and lend troops to fight the Blight, why do you think they would have enough spare to invade nations?

Find me one, one! Example of the Templars fighting in an Exalted March.  So you sir, can stfu <_<

I suspect your referring to the Fereldan Cirlce being able to lend Templar' s to fight the blight. LOL I dont suspect they were in a good position to, THE CIRCLE WAS BEING OVERRUN WITH ABOMINATIONS, and Also they did help if your annulled the circle.
 Your funny man. You actually beleive that the Templar's never fought in a exalted March led by their own superiors.
You ACTUALLY beleive that the Divine tells ALL THE ANDRASTIAN KINGS "Hey, send your people to war but we won't supply our own forces we will just tell you what to do." Did I mention that a Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare? If not, An Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare and up until 9:40 Templar' s were the Warriors of that same Chantry.
 

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...
I suspect your referring to the Fereldan Cirlce being able to lend Templar' s to fight the blight. LOL I dont suspect they were in a good position to, THE CIRCLE WAS BEING OVERRUN WITH ABOMINATIONS, and Also they did help if your annulled the circle.
 Your funny man. You actually beleive that the Templar's never fought in a exalted March led by their own superiors.
You ACTUALLY beleive that the Divine tells ALL THE ANDRASTIAN KINGS "Hey, send your people to war but we won't supply our own forces we will just tell you what to do." Did I mention that a Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare? If not, An Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare and up until 9:40 Templar' s were the Warriors of that same Chantry. 

Still waiting on that proof   The Templars weren't planning on sending anyone even before Uldred.  The only reason they could was because all the mages were dead.  You really think a Circle that hasn't had most of its mages killed off could afford to let such a force go when the Ferelden Circle couldn't?

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 02:26 .

[Daerog]

FreshIstay wrote...

I suspect your referring to the Fereldan Cirlce being able to lend Templar' s to fight the blight. LOL I dont suspect they were in a good position to, THE CIRCLE WAS BEING OVERRUN WITH ABOMINATIONS, and Also they did help if your annulled the circle.
 Your funny man. You actually beleive that the Templar's never fought in a exalted March led by their own superiors.
You ACTUALLY beleive that the Divine tells ALL THE ANDRASTIAN KINGS "Hey, send your people to war but we won't supply our own forces we will just tell you what to do." Did I mention that a Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare? If not, An Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare and up until 9:40 Templar' s were the Warriors of that same Chantry.
 

Templars likely did fight in Exalted Marches, when there were ones who were free or were tasked with going for enemy mages.

However, no where that I know of says that the Templars/Seekers led the Exalted Marches and they had the command of the non-Chantry forces. Maybe the former is true, but I find the latter unlikely.

Likely the Templars had their own units for certain purposes but were not the main body of the Exalted March, as there has never been a huge number of Templars to conquer a whole nation.

They are like special forces I guess, they can do a great deal, but you can't wage a full scale war with just special forces.

[AlexanderCousland]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

I suspect your referring to the Fereldan Cirlce being able to lend Templar' s to fight the blight. LOL I dont suspect they were in a good position to, THE CIRCLE WAS BEING OVERRUN WITH ABOMINATIONS, and Also they did help if your annulled the circle.
 Your funny man. You actually beleive that the Templar's never fought in a exalted March led by their own superiors.
You ACTUALLY beleive that the Divine tells ALL THE ANDRASTIAN KINGS "Hey, send your people to war but we won't supply our own forces we will just tell you what to do." Did I mention that a Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare? If not, An Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare and up until 9:40 Templar' s were the Warriors of that same Chantry.
 

Templars likely did fight in Exalted Marches, when there were ones who were free or were tasked with going for enemy mages.

However, no where that I know of says that the Templars/Seekers led the Exalted Marches and they had the command of the non-Chantry forces. Maybe the former is true, but I find the latter unlikely.

I never said the Templars led exalted marches, I said their Superiors did. Since Templar's are the Warriors of the Chantry then any war the Chantry wages Templars will most likely be involved, to me this is a undeniable fact.

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...
I never said the Templars led exalted marches, I said their Superiors did. Since Templar's are the Warriors of the Chantry then any war the Chantry wages Templars will most likely be involved, to me this is a undeniable fact.

That definitely isn't what your first post said.  At any rate, I'm just telling you that no source about an Exalted March has ever mentioned Templars in any role.  If they were involved, they were a very small part and certainly not acting as an army unto themselves.

The available manpower simply isn't there.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 02:36 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
I suspect your referring to the Fereldan Cirlce being able to lend Templar' s to fight the blight. LOL I dont suspect they were in a good position to, THE CIRCLE WAS BEING OVERRUN WITH ABOMINATIONS, and Also they did help if your annulled the circle.
 Your funny man. You actually beleive that the Templar's never fought in a exalted March led by their own superiors.
You ACTUALLY beleive that the Divine tells ALL THE ANDRASTIAN KINGS "Hey, send your people to war but we won't supply our own forces we will just tell you what to do." Did I mention that a Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare? If not, An Exalted March is Chantry Led Warfare and up until 9:40 Templar' s were the Warriors of that same Chantry. 

Still waiting on that proof   The Templars weren't planning on sending anyone even before Uldred.  The only reason they could was because all the mages were dead.  You really think a Circle that hasn't had most of its mages killed off could afford to let such a force go when the Ferelden Circle couldn't?

Im not debating scenario' s in which King Cailin was still alive, Templar' s and Circle Mage's will do whatever the Chantry tells them to, The Chantry told the Mage's to help the fight and not the Templars, at that time. I will not debate the allocation of imaginary forces, What is evident is that the Chantry had enough power to wage full scale wars at least 7 times in Thedasonian history.

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
I never said the Templars led exalted marches, I said their Superiors did. Since Templar's are the Warriors of the Chantry then any war the Chantry wages Templars will most likely be involved, to me this is a undeniable fact.

That definitely isn't what your first post said.  At any rate, I'm just telling you that no source about an Exalted March has ever mentioned Templars in any role.  If they were involved, they were a very small part and certainly not acting as an army unto themselves.

The available manpower simply isn't there.

Show me proof were i said the Templar's led an Exalted March without chantry authoritry
YOU DONT KNOW HOW MUCH MANPOWER THE CHANTRY HAS (OR HAD) AT IT'S DISPOSAL.
and as I stated before what IS evident is that the CHANTRY had enough manpower to LEAD at least 7 exalted marches in Thedasonian History, and The Templar's are a Warrior branch of the Chantry along with the Seeker's.

[LobselVith8]

Lord Aesir wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

They are involved with each other. Orlais became openly involved with attacking the elves after the elven attack on Red Crossing. If templars were invading the Dales to force conversion, the elves could have been focusing on the source of the templar incursion.

A lot of supposition.  For starters, the Templars simply do not have the manpower available for attacks on the Dales.  As I've said before, the only places that tend to have the sort of manpower required for that sort of action are Circles, where they are otherwise occupied as we saw in Origins.  They don't have time to play soldier, even during a Blight.  The idea that they would have the manpower to mount an incursion of any real size just after a Blight is a bit silly.

Kirkwall had plenty of templars outside the Circle, allowing Meredith to overtly rule over the city-state. I don't think it's silly as you seem to when the templars are religious soldiers who think they have certain rights given to them as the militant arm of the Chantry, such as their dominion over mages. If missionaries are being kicked out of the Dales and soldiers are sent to trespass into a kingdom, against the wishes of the inhabitants and the the rulers, then I don't see why you think the elves are to blame for the ensuing hostilities.

Lord Aesir wrote...

If the Templars entered the Dales, it was not to attack the elves.  If the elves thought the best way to resolve the issue was to attack an Orlesian town, that's their idiocy. 

The templars are soldiers. I don't see why you think armed and armored soldiers invading a foreign nation shouldn't be interpreted as an act of war.

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...
Show me proof were i said the Templar's led an Exalted March without chantry authoritry
YOU DONT KNOW HOW MUCH MANPOWER THE CHANTRY HAS (OR HAD) AT IT'S DISPOSAL.
and as I stated before what IS evident is that the CHANTRY had enough manpower to LEAD at least 7 exalted marches in Thedasonian History, and The Templar's are a Warrior branch of the Chantry along with the Seeker's.

What:huh:?  When have I suggested Templars led Exalted Marches at all?  I've been arguing the opposite.  The burden of proof lies with you if you want to prove the Templars had any substantial part in the Exalted Marches.

I know that Templars are trained specifically as an anti-Apostate/Maleficar/Abomination force and thus their numbers are focused in the Circles of Magi.  I know that the rest of them are spread out across the continent acting as guards in the Chantry's of Thedas and local Apostate hunters.  I know few of these duties can simply be abandoned under even very dire of circumstances.  You tell me which part of this leaves room for a standing army.

If you don't think the Templars were doing it, explain what exactly you think LEAD, means in this context, and how Templar manpower is required<_<

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[Heimdall]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Kirkwall had plenty of templars outside the Circle, allowing Meredith to overtly rule over the city-state. I don't think it's silly as you seem to when the templars are religious soldiers who think they have certain rights given to them as the militant arm of the Chantry, such as their dominion over mages. If missionaries are being kicked out of the Dales and soldiers are sent to trespass into a kingdom, against the wishes of the inhabitants and the the rulers, then I don't see why you think the elves are to blame for the ensuing hostilities.

Kirkwall had a lot of Templars because it has a Circle, it was unusual even then and described as the center of Templar power in eastern Thedas.  Dominating a city state with no real competing military force is a far cry from invading a country with a standing army like the Dales.

Did the Chantry needlessly antagonize the elves?  Yes, I have said I acknowledge that.  But it was the elves who made the moronic decision to escalate things into all out war with Orlais instead of seeking an alternative route.  For that matter, the Chantry wouldn't have done that if the elves hadn't been so concerned with their self absorbed xenophobic superiority complex that they couldn't just let the humans preach and say their piece.  So yes, I place the blame for the destruction of the Dales squarely on the shoulders of the Elves.

The templars are soldiers. I don't see why you think armed and armored soldiers invading a foreign nation shouldn't be interpreted as an act of war.

As I repeatedly tell you, they did not act as soldiers intent on conquest.  They couldn't have succeeded in such an effort if they tried.  They were escorts.  Their actions are no more an act of war than a US marine stepping over the Canadian border.  Being a soldier does not make your every step onto foreign soil an act of war.

And with that, I'm done for the night

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 septembre 2013 - 03:55 .