1256 réponses à ce sujet

[ianvillan]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Don't worry too much about Plaintiff, Br3ad, he gets like this sometimes.

Anyway, Plaintiff, when you have such wonderful Dalish greeters as the one in DA:O, why on earth would anyone, much less a City Elf, ever want to be near those savages?

When you have such wonderful Humans like the nobles in Denerim why on earth would any non Human much less a city elf, ever want to be near those savages?

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Relocation doesn't demand the death of innocent people, and the primary focus is on giving the elves land where they would be safe from purges and being hunted down for being heretics who have free mages among them. I think the elves reclaiming the Dales from the Orlesian Empire is preferable to the status quo.

...you're giving me an headache.

Ok, last attempt. Please, at least make an effort to accompany me rather than reverting back to your automated response of "Elves have it bad".

Forced relocations of large groups of people always leads to the death of innocents. Elves are just as fallible as humans and if they suddenly find themselves with the power to force the humans in the Dales to leave, we're looking at murder, pillage, rape, torture, etc. And this will be branded as "justice" and "revenge for years of opression" regardless if the humans on the suffering end every commited any act of opression.
Yes, theoretically, making one person move from a place to the other doesn't imply death but, in practice, it's where it always ends.
This is not; and I'm going to repeat it; this is NOT up for debate. Take a look through the history of the world. Whenever large groups of people were forced by the victors of a conflict to move somewhere else, terrible things happened. If Orlais is defeated and large groups of its population are forced to move elsewhere, terrible things will happen to them regardless if they are purging Alienages or simply going about their daily life without hurting a single innocent elf.

Plus, what exactly gives the elves the right to take away the homes of innocent people. Yes, Orlais did something terrible in uprooting elven settlements that might have stood there for 300 years but the human settlements in the Dales have existed for 700 years now. That's more than the double of the number of years the Dalish ever lived there.
Those people have worked and lived in that land for generations. What gives the elves the right to just take it from them?


I'm honestly trying to work with you here. Yes, I acknowledge that the City Elves lead terrible lives that they don't deserve right now; you are right in saying that things should change. But let's forget about the elves for a second and acknowledge that the results of what you propose would be ghastly for innocent humans.

Do you simply consider that to be morally justifiable because it might; and I empashyze the MIGHT; lead to elves leading better lives? If a family refuses to leave because their ancestors lived there for 700 years and they never did anything to any elf and the elves torture, rape and murder that entire family, will that be justified?

[TheKomandorShepard]

"What gives the elves the right to just take it from them?"
What gives Andraste to attack tevinter they were there longer.
What gives chantry right to imprison mages.
Might makes right and that will be in case as long someone stronger will appear.
So i don't see elves more unjustified than your chantry who takes violent path most times.
So some humans are innocent and feel sory for elves as well some elves will feel sory for humans when other will massacre them.

[MisterJB]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
What gives Andraste to attack tevinter they were there longer.

The constant opression perpretated by the Magisters of Tevinter. Do the humans of the Dales opress elves?
It's the difference between killing Vaughan who kidnapped young elven women and forcing every human out of Denerim because of it.

What gives chantry right to imprison mages.

Mages are born under the jurisdiction of their respective Kings and Emperors who choose to relegate their handling to the Chantry who then takes the necessary security measures.

Might makes right and that will be in case as long someone stronger will appear.
So i don't see elves more unjustified than your chantry who takes violent path most times.
So some humans are innocent and feel sory for elves as well some elves will feel sory for humans when other will massacre them.

Fair enough. And I do mean it.
Might makes right is one of the truths of life. If you simply want to help elves regardless of how many humans will have to suffer, that means I must oppose you but you are, at least, acknowledging it rather than hiding behind ideals that could be noble if spouted by someone else.
Then I can simply refute you with practical arguments such as "Taking the Dales by force will simply lead to every human in Thedas beyond Tevinter suddenly having elves on the top of their sh*t list."

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 septembre 2013 - 10:59 .

[Mistic]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

And while we have much less information on the Fall of Arlathan, elven history again tells us that the elves closed themselves off from humanity and tried to isolate themselves from what they perceived as vermin.

Well, in the Arlathan elves' defense, we have to remember that they were losing their immortality by living with humans. I mean, if by living near rats our life expectancy dropped to only two years, we wouldn't want them near our homes, would we?

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I also seriously doubt Drakon had to do much forcible conversion anyway, the tribes he united in his earlier days were all in the Orlesian heartlands where Andraste's message had already taken root.

As much as I admire Drakon's vision and capacity (he was one of those few people who changed the face of Thedas forever, for good or bad), he used religion as casus belli and was hellbent on expanding the Andastrian rule over the world. Here are some quotes from the Codex:

"In the year -15 ancient, the young king began construction of a great
temple dedicated to the Maker, and declared that by its completion he
would not only have united the
warring city-states of the south, he would have brought Andrastian
belief to the world" (Founding of the Chantry)

"Such was the power of the Maker's word that the young King Drakon undertook a series of Exalted Marches meant to unite the city-states and create an empire solely dedicated to the Maker's will" (History of the Chantry 4)

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well, I suppose we can't know for sure until the game comes out but I think you're vastly overestimating the importance of the Inquisiton and the player character. The Inquisition is also a powerful organization in a human world. It's power comes from humans. It exists at the sufferance of humanity. Most of it's personel are going to be humans. And whoever the Inquisitor is will change over time (unless of course the Inquisiton disbands after the game). The first Inquisition existed for a 120 years before it was abosrbed into the Chantry.

Who knows. After having Hawke, the ultimate fake hero incapable of solving anything, maybe the Inquisitor will go the other way around and become the new Drakon.

And all this stories about the Dalish, people talk as if those nomads are all the same. There are more ways than the cool Way of Three Trees and the "We are the last of the elvhenan, and never again shall we submit". Maybe a Dalish Inquisitor could follow the Vir Atishan instead?

"There is never a shortage of hunters. The Vir Tanadhal, The Way of
Three Trees, has lured many to Andruil's side. The Vir Atish'an, The Way
of Peace, is a harder path to tread, and few are called to hear
Sylaise's wisdom. Those who hear that call learn the arts of the healer
and the mender.
—As told by Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves"

(Still thinking everything is Hawke's fault)

[MisterJB]

There is no evidence whatsoever of the elves having ever been "immortal" or even exceptionally long lived.

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
What gives Andraste to attack tevinter they were there longer.

The constant opression perpretated by the Magisters of Tevinter. Do the humans of the Dales opress elves?
It's the difference between killing Vaughan who kidnapped young elven women and forcing every human out of Denerim because of it.

What gives chantry right to imprison mages.

Mages are born under the jurisdiction of their respective Kings and Emperors who choose to relegate their handling to the Chantry who then takes the necessary security measures.

Might makes right and that will be in case as long someone stronger will appear.
So i don't see elves more unjustified than your chantry who takes violent path most times.
So some humans are innocent and feel sory for elves as well some elves will feel sory for humans when other will massacre them.

Fair enough. And I do mean it.
Might makes right is one of the truths of life. If you simply want to help elves regardless of how many humans will have to suffer, that means I must oppose you but you are, at least, acknowledging it rather than hiding behind ideals that could be noble if spouted by someone else.

yes most humans are racial toward elves at best another group just them don't give crap and very small group care about them.They actively abuse them giving them no rights only rules they have follow their marches to kill elves because one elf kill someone even in selfdefense pretty ****y life i would rebel against people because chance to have better life is better than don't have any.I don't claim that everyone is kill elves most yes but why elves should care about humans when they don't care about them and let them to do that.
     

"Mages are born under the jurisdiction of their respective Kings and
Emperors who choose to relegate their handling to the Chantry who then
takes the necessary security measures."

oh if you are born under the jurisdiction of someone and thats makes them "right" to rape your mother i doubt that you would be so eager then. necessary security measures? for who necessary it isn't necessary why because world will function without that and no cosmic power forces you into that it is only "necessary" because non-mages shakes their holes when they see mages.What you see as necessary is up to you and don't make that really necessary.

to be honest i don't give crap about elves or humans i just say that elves can just that what they want and perhaps even win but if they will do that what humans elves they can count on consequences that humans will rebel at some point as well.And i don't say that is good if they do that but hey they just try improve their life standards i don't blame them for that. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 28 septembre 2013 - 11:15 .

[MisterJB]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
yes most humans are racial toward elves at best another group just them don't give crap and very small group care about them.They actively abuse them giving them no rights only rules they have follow their marches to kill elves because one elf kill someone even in selfdefense pretty ****y life i would rebel against people because chance to have better life is better than don't have any.I don't claim that everyone is kill elves most yes but why elves should care about humans when they don't care about them and let them to do that.

I daresay that if I cared to count all humans in all forms of DA's franchise who exhibited anti-elven sentiments vs those who didn't, the latter would be far more numerous.
In order for someone not to be racist, all that person has to do is not claim that his/her race is superior. That is to say, just because your average human might have bigger things to worry about other than the plight of the elves, that doesn't make him/her racist, it makes him/her a normal person. Therefore, despite what today's world might teach, humans don't have to activelly be working to better elven lives in order to not be racist or to be innocent people.
Therefore, you have no basis to claim most humans are racist.

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
yes most humans are racial toward elves at best another group just them don't give crap and very small group care about them.They actively abuse them giving them no rights only rules they have follow their marches to kill elves because one elf kill someone even in selfdefense pretty ****y life i would rebel against people because chance to have better life is better than don't have any.I don't claim that everyone is kill elves most yes but why elves should care about humans when they don't care about them and let them to do that.

I daresay that if I cared to count all humans in all forms of DA's franchise who exhibited anti-elven sentiments vs those who didn't, the latter would be far more numerous.
In order for someone not to be racist, all that person has to do is not claim that his/her race is superior. That is to say, just because your average human might have bigger things to worry about other than the plight of the elves, that doesn't make him/her racist, it makes him/her a normal person. Therefore, despite what today's world might teach, humans don't have to activelly be working to better elven lives in order to not be racist or to be innocent people.
Therefore, you have no basis to claim most humans are racist.

genocides in alienages and assaults by folks (well one person surly that wasn't),you don't see racist doing that because elves topic wasn't touched often in games you would count as well atheists and catholics when their belives wasn't touchet in product. 

"human might have bigger things to worry about other than the plight of the elves" now you try confuse of course that doesn't make them racist i even put that group after i said racist group but why elve should care about that "normal person" when they don't care about them?

[Mistic]

MisterJB wrote...

There is no evidence whatsoever of the elves having ever been "immortal" or even exceptionally long lived.

The fact that they call the humans "shemlen", "quick children", implies that they at lives lived noticeably longer than humans (that or that past humans were noticeably faster, but that seems a bit far-fetched ).

But let's see what David Gaider said:

"DG: City elves have the same lifespans as humans. They call them shemlen
because it's an ancient word...occasionally city elves will use some
words that are elven without really understanding where they really come
from. So it's a derogatory term, and that's all it is to them when they
say shem, the short version, they call humans that even though
the reasons for that word no longer exist. Dalish tend to live longer.
We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer
they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity,
the longer they seem to live."

Source: http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

Still thinking of ways for Hawke to have made the elves lost their immortality. It's tricky, but Hawke has always shown s/he can do the impossible

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
Brushing off the suffering of the elves, and claiming they have no right to be upset or demand restitution, is.

Condemning the elves for fighting back against humans, while handwaving the violence enacted by humans agaianst the elves, is.

And that's what's going on in this thread right now.

No, what's going on in this thread is saying that the suffering of elves doesn't give them the right to commit genocide.

Elves have a right to be upset. They also have a right to want a nice place to live, and not a single person in this thread denied that.

I do my best to not be prejudiced ****, but I have my failings, just
like everyone else. The difference is I try to make corrections, instead
of wallowing in my hate and screeching that I'm justified because
reasons.

I've yet to see you do anything like that.

[MisterJB]

Misticsan wrote...
The fact that they call the humans "shemlen", "quick children", implies that they at lives lived noticeably longer than humans (that or that past humans were noticeably faster, but that seems a bit far-fetched ).

Or simply that elves are prejudiced.
Plus, the more primitive humans of the time could have easily lived less time than the elves due to certain conditions such as lack of hygiene whereas some humans in the Dragon Age are said to live for over a century.

But let's see what David Gaider said:

I'm aware of what Mr.Gaider said. But, recently, another developed claimed the opposite. That the only race that lives any longer than its neighbors are the Qunari due to their superior technology.
Unfortunately, I can't find the quote at the moment.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
not that templars are perform pacifist methods to achieve own goals ups bloodshed are common well that only way they can handle any problem and it isn't only crime because templars are in charge.

"I'm sorry, but "I had a shi**ier life than you, thus it's ok for me to
kill youbecause it will MAYBE improve my lot" is neither sensible or
moral." reason as good as " will kill you because you may harm me or i kill you becuse i don't like that you used blood magic.

Negative.
Mages are a threat to EVERYONE (including other mages), regardless of their personality or intentions, so any comparison is pointless.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
not that templars are perform pacifist methods to achieve own goals ups bloodshed are common well that only way they can handle any problem and it isn't only crime because templars are in charge.

"I'm sorry, but "I had a shi**ier life than you, thus it's ok for me to
kill youbecause it will MAYBE improve my lot" is neither sensible or
moral." reason as good as " will kill you because you may harm me or i kill you becuse i don't like that you used blood magic.

Negative.
Mages are a threat to EVERYONE (including other mages), regardless of their personality or intentions, so any comparison is pointless.

negative
human as well including other humans i don't see you throwing other humans because they are threat to each other so your theory is pointless.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

It's been 700+ years, the Dalish were on it for significantly less than that. ~_~

It's still their land.Their entire kingdom was based in the Dales which means the Dalish would have a legitimate claim if they were a human noble who had their lands stolen from them.

It's not. And it hasn't been for 700 years. Any claims are pointless and that noble would have no claim either.

Unless you want to argue that if a man whgo's foun out to be a blood relative of a roman emperor has the claim to the whole europe and would justified in his campaign of ethnic clensing and genocied to "reclaim" it?
I wonder what your stance on Israel is then? Who's land is that?

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Negative.
Mages are a threat to EVERYONE (including other mages), regardless of their personality or intentions, so any comparison is pointless.

negative
human as well including other humans i don't see you throwing other humans because they are threat to each other so your theory is pointless.

Ohh?
Can other humans become possesed and bring forth demons, raise undead and take control of your mind - even when they don't want it and have the best of intentions?
No?

Then you have no argument.
Regular humans/elves/etc simply don't represent a significant enough threat to warrant different measures.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Negative.
Mages are a threat to EVERYONE (including other mages), regardless of their personality or intentions, so any comparison is pointless.

negative
human as well including other humans i don't see you throwing other humans because they are threat to each other so your theory is pointless.

Ohh?
Can other humans become possesed and bring forth demons, raise undead and take control of your mind - even when they don't want it and have the best of intentions?
No?

Then you have no argument.
Regular humans/elves/etc simply don't represent a significant enough threat to warrant different measures.

oh please stop using your argument demons that or that demons are danger for you for mage doesn't have to be for other tevinter is capable handle them (as well before circle) humans can have mental disorders , be selfish or ruthless as we see humanity created a lot suffering.

And your argument control mind or hurt me is pathetic because humans did bad things as well rape , murder ,genocide and only few dick*** of humanity i don't see you screaming throw humanity into prison we can do bad things.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

It's been 700+ years, the Dalish were on it for significantly less than that. ~_~

It's still their land.Their entire kingdom was based in the Dales which means the Dalish would have a legitimate claim if they were a human noble who had their lands stolen from them.

It's not. And it hasn't been for 700 years. Any claims are pointless and that noble would have no claim either.

Unless you want to argue that if a man whgo's foun out to be a blood relative of a roman emperor has the claim to the whole europe and would justified in his campaign of ethnic clensing and genocied to "reclaim" it?
I wonder what your stance on Israel is then? Who's land is that?

If that land was the place where generations of their family was born and they were kicked out for unjust reasons?Then yes that man would have a strong claim.Besides it's not ethnic cleasing to kick someone out of your home after they illegally kicked you out.I strongly suggest looking up the definition of ethnic cleansing because it's being used as a buzzword for arguments of why the Dales should remain in Orlesian hands after they had pillaged it.

Modifié par cjones91, 28 septembre 2013 - 01:30 .

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Negative.
Mages are a threat to EVERYONE (including other mages), regardless of their personality or intentions, so any comparison is pointless.

negative
human as well including other humans i don't see you throwing other humans because they are threat to each other so your theory is pointless.

Ohh?
Can other humans become possesed and bring forth demons, raise undead and take control of your mind - even when they don't want it and have the best of intentions?
No?

Then you have no argument.
Regular humans/elves/etc simply don't represent a significant enough threat to warrant different measures.

Lol,humans are monsters by their very nature.We may not be able to summon demons, control minds, or anything else mages can do but we can and will try our hardest to commit the most horrific acts on each other.

[Heimdall]

cjones91 wrote...


If that land was the place where generations of their family was born and they were kicked out for unjust reasons?Then yes that man would have a strong claim.Besides it's not ethnic cleasing to kick someone out of your home after they illegally kicked you out.I strongly suggest looking up the definition of ethnic cleansing because it's being used as a buzzword for arguments of why the Dales should remain in Orlesian hands after they had pillaged it.

The point you seem to missing or deliberately avoiding is that the people you propose to kick out have been living there for centuries longer than the Dalish actually lived there themselves.

No living Dalish has ever dwelt in the Dales. No living Orlesian took the Dales from them. And yet you would tell us they are guilty simply for living on the land their ancestors have lived on for generations? The land they have cultivated, built on, and buried their loved ones ashes in for 700 years?

The Dalish hate them over an event remembered only in passed down tales, those people have not wronged them and driving them from their homes for it is repulsive.

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

cjones91 wrote...


If that land was the place where generations of their family was born and they were kicked out for unjust reasons?Then yes that man would have a strong claim.Besides it's not ethnic cleasing to kick someone out of your home after they illegally kicked you out.I strongly suggest looking up the definition of ethnic cleansing because it's being used as a buzzword for arguments of why the Dales should remain in Orlesian hands after they had pillaged it.

The point you seem to missing or deliberately avoiding is that the people you propose to kick out have been living there for centuries longer than the Dalish actually lived there themselves.

No living Dalish has ever dwelt in the Dales. No living Orlesian took the Dales from them. And yet you would tell us they are guilty simply for living on the land their ancestors have lived on for generations? The land they have cultivated, built on, and buried their loved ones ashes in for 700 years?

The Dalish hate them over an event remembered only in passed down tales, those people have not wronged them and driving them from their homes for it is repulsive.

On a basic level I agree. BUT sometimes later generations have to deal with consequences of their ancestors actions. IF One race wants to enslave other's, well,  it doesn't suprise me that the subjugated race want's a little retribution. (However wrong or right that maybe).

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Ohh?
Can other humans become possesed and bring forth demons, raise undead and take control of your mind - even when they don't want it and have the best of intentions?
No?

Then you have no argument.
Regular humans/elves/etc simply don't represent a significant enough threat to warrant different measures.

oh please stop using your argument demons that or that demons are danger for you for mage doesn't have to be for other tevinter is capable handle them (as well before circle) humans can have mental disorders , be selfish or ruthless as we see humanity created a lot suffering.

And your argument control mind or hurt me is pathetic because humans did bad things as well rape , murder ,genocide and only few dick*** of humanity i don't see you screaming throw humanity into prison we can do bad things.

Demons being the main danger trough mages doesn't make mages any less dangerous. I dont' care if hte mage wants it or not - that is utterly irrelevant. As I said before, GOOD, WELL-INTENTIONED mages can kill off an entire village with ease.

Also, all those dangerous mental disorders - people who have them are either locked up inmental institutions, or on so many meds they are basicly tranquil...so no points for you there either.
And no, you can't compare mages to any minority or group in the real world.

And finally, yourargument is redicolous.
Yes, human do bad things. But humans aren't nearly as dangerous as mages, can be easily controlled, and finally - you can't throw humanity in prison. How would you do that? I'm asking from a practical perspective - who would be the one throwing humanity in jail? Who would produce food? Who would be the jailor? Who would pay for those jails? And how could a billion poeple throw themsleves into jail?

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Ohh?
Can other humans become possesed and bring forth demons, raise undead and take control of your mind - even when they don't want it and have the best of intentions?
No?

Then you have no argument.
Regular humans/elves/etc simply don't represent a significant enough threat to warrant different measures.

oh please stop using your argument demons that or that demons are danger for you for mage doesn't have to be for other tevinter is capable handle them (as well before circle) humans can have mental disorders , be selfish or ruthless as we see humanity created a lot suffering.

And your argument control mind or hurt me is pathetic because humans did bad things as well rape , murder ,genocide and only few dick*** of humanity i don't see you screaming throw humanity into prison we can do bad things.

Demons being the main danger trough mages doesn't make mages any less dangerous. I dont' care if hte mage wants it or not - that is utterly irrelevant. As I said before, GOOD, WELL-INTENTIONED mages can kill off an entire village with ease.

Also, all those dangerous mental disorders - people who have them are either locked up inmental institutions, or on so many meds they are basicly tranquil...so no points for you there either.
And no, you can't compare mages to any minority or group in the real world.

And finally, yourargument is redicolous.
Yes, human do bad things. But humans aren't nearly as dangerous as mages, can be easily controlled, and finally - you can't throw humanity in prison. How would you do that? I'm asking from a practical perspective - who would be the one throwing humanity in jail? Who would produce food? Who would be the jailor? Who would pay for those jails? And how could a billion poeple throw themsleves into jail?

Yet you do the same to mages....honestly non mages who advocate throwing mages in prison simply for what they might do need to set a example and let themselves be locked up because of something they may never do in the future.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's not. And it hasn't been for 700 years. Any claims are pointless and that noble would have no claim either.

Unless you want to argue that if a man whgo's foun out to be a blood relative of a roman emperor has the claim to the whole europe and would justified in his campaign of ethnic clensing and genocied to "reclaim" it?
I wonder what your stance on Israel is then? Who's land is that?

If that land was the place where generations of their family was born and they were kicked out for unjust reasons?Then yes that man would have a strong claim.Besides it's not ethnic cleasing to kick someone out of your home after they illegally kicked you out.I strongly suggest looking up the definition of ethnic cleansing because it's being used as a buzzword for arguments of why the Dales should remain in Orlesian hands after they had pillaged it.

And guess what many MORE generations of humans were born on that land and lived there.
They know that land better than any Dalish does.
The Dalish haven't lived there for 700 years.

Yes, it is ethnic clensing, no matter how you try to pretty it up. It's not their home anymore. It ceased to be hunderds of years ago.


From your answer, I can only gleam that you suport the destruction of Israel then, since all the tribes living there were forcibly evicted.

Lol,humans are monsters by their very nature.We may not be able to
summon demons, control minds, or anything else mages can do but we can
and will try our hardest to commit the most horrific acts on each other.

And that is a VERY important difference. One that you continue to ignore.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 septembre 2013 - 04:19 .

[cjones91]

Lord Aesir wrote...

cjones91 wrote...


If that land was the place where generations of their family was born and they were kicked out for unjust reasons?Then yes that man would have a strong claim.Besides it's not ethnic cleasing to kick someone out of your home after they illegally kicked you out.I strongly suggest looking up the definition of ethnic cleansing because it's being used as a buzzword for arguments of why the Dales should remain in Orlesian hands after they had pillaged it.

The point you seem to missing or deliberately avoiding is that the people you propose to kick out have been living there for centuries longer than the Dalish actually lived there themselves.

No living Dalish has ever dwelt in the Dales. No living Orlesian took the Dales from them. And yet you would tell us they are guilty simply for living on the land their ancestors have lived on for generations? The land they have cultivated, built on, and buried their loved ones ashes in for 700 years?

The Dalish hate them over an event remembered only in passed down tales, those people have not wronged them and driving them from their homes for it is repulsive.

How is repulsive to take back your home?If someone kicked you out of your house illegally and move their own family in what would you do?