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[Xilizhra]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So the reason the mage rebellion can't fail is basically that fans don't want it to?

There's that, there's the fact that it'd be narratively useless if it did fail, and the fact that a greater threat is arising anyway.

[Ieolus]

I sure hope there is a chance that it could fail, or that other factions besides the Libertarians rally the mages in the end to bring the Circle back, just maybe not under Chantry control (or less control as it were).

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So the reason the mage rebellion can't fail is basically that fans don't want it to?

There's that, there's the fact that it'd be narratively useless if it did fail, and the fact that a greater threat is arising anyway.

Not if it's a failure narrative. :happy:

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So the reason the mage rebellion can't fail is basically that fans don't want it to?

There's that, there's the fact that it'd be narratively useless if it did fail, and the fact that a greater threat is arising anyway.

Well I seriously doubt it's going to be the main objective of the game with the veil tear and all but we're still supposed to be putting the world back together by the end. But the point I was trying to make was it wouldn't necessarily be narratively useless. Stopping it and thus ending the chaos could well be a worthwhile goal for the Inquisitor, in it's own right.

For example, I thought Mass Effect 3 did a good job portraying either the pro geth or pro quarian endings of Rannoch as a victory no matter who you chose, albeit one with a great cost.

[Xilizhra]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

So the reason the mage rebellion can't fail is basically that fans don't want it to?

There's that, there's the fact that it'd be narratively useless if it did fail, and the fact that a greater threat is arising anyway.

Well I seriously doubt it's going to be the main objective of the game with the veil tear and all but we're still supposed to be putting the world back together by the end. But the point I was trying to make was it wouldn't necessarily be narratively useless. Stopping it and thus ending the chaos could well be a worthwhile goal for the Inquisitor, in it's own right.

For example, I thought Mass Effect 3 did a good job portraying either the pro geth or pro quarian endings of Rannoch as a victory no matter who you chose, albeit one with a great cost.

Too much of a divergence point in an ongoing series for the outcome of something like that to depend on your choices; that can only happen at the end of a series, like with ME3. They can only choose one, and I'm sure they'll pick the one that's both more popular and less regressive.

[Medhia Nox]

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

The outcome is too far-reaching to have more than one result. And I seriously doubt the templars would, or can, win.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

The outcome is too far-reaching to have more than one result. And I seriously doubt the templars would, or can, win.

The Kirkwall incident says otherwise

[Xilizhra]

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

The outcome is too far-reaching to have more than one result. And I seriously doubt the templars would, or can, win.

The Kirkwall incident says otherwise

Meaningless to the overall outcome either way, all that changes is how much innocent-murdering Hawke does personally.  I'm speaking narratively.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Xilizhra wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

The outcome is too far-reaching to have more than one result. And I seriously doubt the templars would, or can, win.

Well that depends largely on how they go about solving the problem. Maybe Bioware will write one basic ending for the mage rebellion where the important details are different. So for example It might be that in the end the mages always go back to Cirlces but the Templars going back to guard them depends on your choices.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 septembre 2013 - 01:53 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: I've yet to see you say anything other than. Because: Things - when it comes to why you are so sure the Templars could not win.

The mages of Thedas are among the stupidest (and I mean intelligence - not slang) version of their "kind" in any fantasy fiction I have ever read. They're just mutants - no genuine intelligence required (or displayed).

So - uneducated shut ins who are reviled the world over... are "shoe ins" in your book. I just don't see it.

They both seem doomed - but the Templars would have the backing of the people by miles.

[Xilizhra]

Well that depends largely on how they go about solving the problem. Maybe Bioware will write one basic ending for the mage rebellion where the important details are different. So It could be that in the end the mages always go back to the Cirlces but the Templars going back to guard them depends on your choices.

It's possible, but highly unlikely.

@Xilizhra: I've yet to see you say anything other than. Because: Things - when it comes to why you are so sure the Templars could not win.

The mages of Thedas are among the stupidest (and I mean intelligence - not slang) version of their "kind" in any fantasy fiction I have ever read. They're just mutants - no genuine intelligence required (or displayed).

So - uneducated shut ins who are reviled the world over... are "shoe ins" in your book. I just don't see it.

They both seem doomed - but the Templars would have the backing of the people by miles.

A good portion of the templars, possibly all of them not still with the Chantry, have gone completely psychotic marauder and would lose the support of the people very rapidly. And for narrative reasons, they obviously won't win; the Inquisition may need to wipe them out entirely. Their actions, too, would probably sour public opinion of the templars enough to level the playing field around the weakened and toothless Chantry.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

I may be wrong, but isn't the Mage/Templar war only one piece of DA:I?

If it is not the main conflict then both parties can be dealt with in a great variety of ways.

That being said, storytelling-wise I would prefer the Templars to crush the mage rebellion than vice versa.

Mage-Topia seems the worst possible storytelling choice.

The outcome is too far-reaching to have more than one result. And I seriously doubt the templars would, or can, win.

The Kirkwall incident says otherwise

Meaningless to the overall outcome either way, all that changes is how much innocent-murdering Hawke does personally.  I'm speaking narratively.

Narratively the Templars would still most likely win

[Xilizhra]

Narratively the Templars would still most likely win

Not in ten thousand years.

[Mr.House]

Xil clearly forgets the funnel of dropping mages cutscene or the slaughter of mages in the courtyard cutscene in the final quest.

[Medhia Nox]

That still doesn't explain why the mages would "win".

When giant magical tears in the sky start pouring demons out onto Thedas... who do you think everyone is going to blame? The magic hating Templars? The magic hating Qunari? How about the magic incapable dwarves?

I think I might have a guess who everyone on Thedas is going to blame for the magical magicking of the magic of the magical realm where magic comes from.

Mage-topia shouldn't (but I can't say "won't" because I'm not a DA writer) happen.

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

Xil clearly forgets the funnel of dropping mages cutscene or the slaughter of mages in the courtyard cutscene in the final quest.

I think you're forgetting that I'm not currently speaking of in-universe reasons for the mages winning, aside from the presence of Red Templars, but for out-of-universe ones.

When giant magical tears in the sky start pouring demons out onto
Thedas... who do you think everyone is going to blame? The magic hating
Templars? The magic hating Qunari? How about the magic incapable
dwarves?

Demons.

Mage-topia shouldn't (but I can't say "won't" because I'm not a DA writer) happen.

Well, there's no time for peace. We need to take out the qunari and probably have one more round with the darkspawn.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 septembre 2013 - 01:59 .

[Mr.House]

We all know mages will get preferred treatment to appease the masses because mages are innocent bunnies that should be cuddled and left alone.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Narratively the Templars would still most likely win

Not in ten thousand years.

According to your headcanon maybe

[Medhia Nox]

@Mr. House: Not in my playthru. I'm so hoping for the anti-magic spirit school to be back.

Mage Tool: You traitor! How could you turn on your own people?! We're mages and we should be cuddled like innocent bunnies and left alone!

My Inquistor: Bored. *casts Mana Clash - Mage Tool esplodes*

[Mr.House]

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Narratively the Templars would still most likely win

Not in ten thousand years.

According to your headcanon maybe

Xils headcanon trumps canon and in-game evidence.

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

Demons.

Of course, because the common people of Thedas are going to be so understanding when it comes to that distinction. It's not like in the psyche of most peasants there is an obvious association between those pesky demons and their favorite treats.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 septembre 2013 - 02:05 .

[BlueMagitek]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: I've yet to see you say anything other than. Because: Things - when it comes to why you are so sure the Templars could not win.

The mages of Thedas are among the stupidest (and I mean intelligence - not slang) version of their "kind" in any fantasy fiction I have ever read. They're just mutants - no genuine intelligence required (or displayed).

So - uneducated shut ins who are reviled the world over... are "shoe ins" in your book. I just don't see it.

They both seem doomed - but the Templars would have the backing of the people by miles.

They're basically Sorcerers plagued by horrors of their bloodline, if we want to go that route. ~_^

Abominations = Warlocks.

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 23 septembre 2013 - 02:04 .

[Gwydden]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Mr. House: Not in my playthru. I'm so hoping for the anti-magic spirit school to be back.

Mage Tool: You traitor! How could you turn on your own people?! We're mages and we should be cuddled like innocent bunnies and left alone!

My Inquistor: Bored. *casts Mana Clash - Mage Tool esplodes*

Any particular reason why?

[Xilizhra]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Demons.

Of course, because the common people of Thedas are going to be so understanding when it comes to that distinction. It's not like in the psyche of most peasants there is an obvious association between those pesky demons and their favorite treats.

We shall see. It won't be enough to stop a mage from leading the Inquisition, at any rate.