1256 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xil, you have just as much right as any of us to believe whatever you want. But don't try strong arm others to say that your way is the only way.

That's utterly futile. I only argue with other forum posters here because I enjoy the interplay of opinions. The ones I'm actually trying to influence are Bioware; in creating an atmosphere of intense opposition between the mage and templar sides, I hope to do my part to create an environment where the desire to continue the mage/templar plot is heavily vocalized and on Bioware's minds. And if that works out, it's my opinion that Bioware could never end things with a templar victory because of issues of narrative structure and general demographic popularity of the mages vs. the templars; as such, a stronger mage/templar narrative supports my side by default.

Xil, have I ever mentioned that your regular and habitual opposition to popular viewpoints oppossing your own one of your more amusing features?

It's a charming one part self-rationalization, on part clueless unawareness of the foundation and validity of oppossing viewpoints, one part unironic hypocrisy on the values of freedom and liberty you regularly claim to value but frequently aspire to undermine if you assumed power, and all hilarious.

I'm not against the presence of opposing opinions by any means, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I find them fascinating, truth be told. My positions here are based around what I believe is best for overall story structure. Also, I personally am not my Shepard and would never try to be even if I gained power somehow.

I am curious, Xil. Do you play characters as you would if you were in such a position? Or do you play them as if you were writing them in a story?

[Steelcan]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Well this has been an interesting last ten pages.

A little disappointed that Plaintiff didn't reply to me. But that's that, I suppose.

Damn, if he had mentioned equality again I could spam more pictures of Amon

[Steelcan]

MasterScribe wrote...

Unalaq is Amon 2.0 Tarrlok

[Xilizhra]

I am curious, Xil. Do you play characters as you would if you were in such a position? Or do you play them as if you were writing them in a story?

Closer to the latter, though I write them as sharing many aspects of my own outlook. They're more impressive than I give myself credit for being, generally.

[Hellion Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Unalaq is Amon 2.0 Tarrlok

Ah, I see what you did there

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I hate templars to h*ll and back, and I am pro-mage through and through, but I could and would not want to take that choice away from you, from another person playing the game. Your game is your own story to make, and it really angers me that people can only see *their* way as the only way.

I'd rather have the option to kick both of their asses and make them sumbit because both sides are idiots

And then reform the Circles with some changes

Pretty much this...



I also want to exterminate the Dalish and make Ferelden more powerful

Hrm i don't mind the idea of reforming both and forcing a compromise but outright templar victory is preferable to the alternative at least in my mind.

And Ferelden can rot for all i care, I just care about Loghain personally.

A templar victory means total and willing genocide.

You act as if i am unaware of the body count, but a loss comes with both sides acheiving victory.

Would you ignore the mass loss of Templars and the complete removal of the chantry and write it off as the costs of war rather then a genocide for the mages?

No my freind both ssides, which ever the PC ultimately supports in their dealings with end up killing massive amounts of people merely for affilation or  their precieved affilation or intent.

Both sides come with that label attached, its to me though the cost of war.

The Templars however offered a more measured and realistic view of magic then the alternative.

Slaughtering every single mage, and leaving the future mages of the world without leadership, guidance, or even training, thus condeming the world to either slaughtering children for eternity, or dealing with mages learning the myseries of magics on their own, without help or guidance.

This is simply not feasible. If you cannot live with mages having more rights than the Circle system had, well, recognize it's just a fictional setting and mages don't exist in real life, but you are worrying me about your willingness to call for total genocide.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

I am curious, Xil. Do you play characters as you would if you were in such a position? Or do you play them as if you were writing them in a story?

Closer to the latter, though I write them as sharing many aspects of my own outlook. They're more impressive than I give myself credit for being, generally.

Oh most definitely. If I were ever in half of the situations my characters were in, I would probably just curl up in a ball and cry.

[addiction21]

AresKeith wrote...

Get your agenda out of here

That's all she has. That's all it really is, is real world baggage dragged into here.

Its why I hope such people keep their fanaticism to fictional worlds and place.

[addiction21]

Steelcan wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Well this has been an interesting last ten pages.

A little disappointed that Plaintiff didn't reply to me. But that's that, I suppose.

Damn, if he had mentioned equality again I could spam more pictures of Amon

I am wondering if spam will get this thread locked.

P.S.
If you do it some Naga would be nice. She is the real star.

[Dean_the_Young]

eluvianix wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xil, you have just as much right as any of us to believe whatever you want. But don't try strong arm others to say that your way is the only way.

That's utterly futile. I only argue with other forum posters here because I enjoy the interplay of opinions. The ones I'm actually trying to influence are Bioware; in creating an atmosphere of intense opposition between the mage and templar sides, I hope to do my part to create an environment where the desire to continue the mage/templar plot is heavily vocalized and on Bioware's minds. And if that works out, it's my opinion that Bioware could never end things with a templar victory because of issues of narrative structure and general demographic popularity of the mages vs. the templars; as such, a stronger mage/templar narrative supports my side by default.

Xil, have I ever mentioned that your regular and habitual opposition to popular viewpoints oppossing your own one of your more amusing features?

It's a charming one part self-rationalization, on part clueless unawareness of the foundation and validity of oppossing viewpoints, one part unironic hypocrisy on the values of freedom and liberty you regularly claim to value but frequently aspire to undermine if you assumed power, and all hilarious.

Dude.....kinda late to the party.

Xil and I go way back, which is to say actual years. Sometimes I just stop by to remind her why I find her character development on these forums interesting. Did you know she once believed herself to be an opponent of teleological ethics? 

Getting Xil to actually admit to being an authoritarian personality, rather than a libertarian, was something of a character arc moment. Xil's gender-shaded morality (masculinity is between bad and unappealing, femininity gains sympathy) track led to a very amusing 'I can't be authoritarian!' moment, until we started going over a litany of past and present authoritarian positions she held and advocated and the sheer number of libertarian tolerances that she wouldn't tolerate if in power.

Xil's a Liberal Authoritarian by nature, in contrast to my Conservative Authoritarian. We clash frequently, but I get more amused by when she forgets or pretends to be an upholder of libertarianism and such. And then there are moments, like now, when she tries to take a moral high ground when she's long been waist deep in mud.

She'll forget it in a month or so, just like she easily forgets all the previous issues she's conceded she's wrong in only to repeat the claim later, which is just more of the Xil charm.

[Steelcan]

addiction21 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Well this has been an interesting last ten pages.

A little disappointed that Plaintiff didn't reply to me. But that's that, I suppose.

Damn, if he had mentioned equality again I could spam more pictures of Amon

I am wondering if spam will get this thread locked.

P.S.
If you do it some Naga would be nice. She is the real star.

But spamming Plaintiff with Amon is just ever so satisfying.

[Hellion Rex]

Can we maybe stop beating on Xil now? We kinda got the point across.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xil, you have just as much right as any of us to believe whatever you want. But don't try strong arm others to say that your way is the only way.

That's utterly futile. I only argue with other forum posters here because I enjoy the interplay of opinions. The ones I'm actually trying to influence are Bioware; in creating an atmosphere of intense opposition between the mage and templar sides, I hope to do my part to create an environment where the desire to continue the mage/templar plot is heavily vocalized and on Bioware's minds. And if that works out, it's my opinion that Bioware could never end things with a templar victory because of issues of narrative structure and general demographic popularity of the mages vs. the templars; as such, a stronger mage/templar narrative supports my side by default.

Xil, have I ever mentioned that your regular and habitual opposition to popular viewpoints oppossing your own one of your more amusing features?

It's a charming one part self-rationalization, on part clueless unawareness of the foundation and validity of oppossing viewpoints, one part unironic hypocrisy on the values of freedom and liberty you regularly claim to value but frequently aspire to undermine if you assumed power, and all hilarious.

I'm not against the presence of opposing opinions by any means, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I find them fascinating, truth be told. My positions here are based around what I believe is best for overall story structure. Also, I personally am not my Shepard and would never try to be even if I gained power somehow.

Xil, we've talked about your ambitions for the Asari. And the Quarians. And the Thedas masses.  We've also talked enough to know that you've long since slipped from your character's views to your own.

You only tolerate dissent so long as its impotent. When it threatens you or your positions, you seek to deligitimize or destroy it until it can no longer challenge you.



And, with that, I'm off to work.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 septembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[Xilizhra]

Xil and I go way back, which is to say actual years. Sometimes I just stop by to remind her why I find her character development on these forums interesting. Did you know she once believed herself to be an opponent of teleological ethics?

Getting Xil to actually admit to being an authoritarian personality, rather than a libertarian, was something of a character arc moment. Xil's gender-shaded morality (masculinity is between bad and unappealing, femininity gains sympathy) track led to a very amusing 'I can't be authoritarian!' moment, until we started going over a litany of past and present authoritarian positions she held and advocated and the sheer number of libertarian tolerances that she wouldn't tolerate if in power.

Xil's a Liberal Authoritarian by nature, in contrast to my Conservative Authoritarian. We clash frequently, but I get more amused by when she forgets or pretends to be an upholder of libertarianism and such. And then there are moments, like now, when she tries to take a moral high ground when she's long been waist deep in mud.

She'll forget it in a month or so, just like she easily forgets all the previous issues she's conceded she's wrong in only to repeat the claim later, which is just more of the Xil charm.

To clarify, Shepard in Control is in a wholly unique situation with powers I doubt I'd wish on anyone else; it only worked out because I'd more or less designed her character to be as morally upstanding as possible. It's not something I'd want to see, well, repeated.

And what libertarian tolerances would I not tolerate if in power again?

Xil, we've talked about your ambitions for the Asari. And the Quarians. And the Thedas masses.

Er? If I had plans for the quarians, I've given up on them; in the peace playthrough, they seem to be handling things by themselves fairly well. For the asari, yes, there was one bit of information suppression, but I wasn't going to deliberately elevate them to supreme power; I just didn't want to see the whole race smeared because of the actions of a few secretive officials. And I admit that the Thedas masses plans have slipped my mind.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 29 septembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Can we maybe stop beating on Xil now? We kinda got the point across.

It's been years for some of these people. I don't think we'll ever get the point across. 

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

Xil and I go way back, which is to say actual years. Sometimes I just stop by to remind her why I find her character development on these forums interesting. Did you know she once believed herself to be an opponent of teleological ethics?

Getting Xil to actually admit to being an authoritarian personality, rather than a libertarian, was something of a character arc moment. Xil's gender-shaded morality (masculinity is between bad and unappealing, femininity gains sympathy) track led to a very amusing 'I can't be authoritarian!' moment, until we started going over a litany of past and present authoritarian positions she held and advocated and the sheer number of libertarian tolerances that she wouldn't tolerate if in power.

Xil's a Liberal Authoritarian by nature, in contrast to my Conservative Authoritarian. We clash frequently, but I get more amused by when she forgets or pretends to be an upholder of libertarianism and such. And then there are moments, like now, when she tries to take a moral high ground when she's long been waist deep in mud.

She'll forget it in a month or so, just like she easily forgets all the previous issues she's conceded she's wrong in only to repeat the claim later, which is just more of the Xil charm.

To clarify, Shepard in Control is in a wholly unique situation with powers I doubt I'd wish on anyone else; it only worked out because I'd more or less designed her character to be as morally upstanding as possible. It's not something I'd want to see, well, repeated.

And what libertarian tolerances would I not tolerate if in power again?

"I designed the Catalyst to preserve life at any cost possible." 

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I hate templars to h*ll and back, and I am pro-mage through and through, but I could and would not want to take that choice away from you, from another person playing the game. Your game is your own story to make, and it really angers me that people can only see *their* way as the only way.

I'd rather have the option to kick both of their asses and make them sumbit because both sides are idiots

And then reform the Circles with some changes

Pretty much this...



I also want to exterminate the Dalish and make Ferelden more powerful

Hrm i don't mind the idea of reforming both and forcing a compromise but outright templar victory is preferable to the alternative at least in my mind.

And Ferelden can rot for all i care, I just care about Loghain personally.

A templar victory means total and willing genocide.

You act as if i am unaware of the body count, but a loss comes with both sides acheiving victory.

Would you ignore the mass loss of Templars and the complete removal of the chantry and write it off as the costs of war rather then a genocide for the mages?

No my freind both ssides, which ever the PC ultimately supports in their dealings with end up killing massive amounts of people merely for affilation or  their precieved affilation or intent.

Both sides come with that label attached, its to me though the cost of war.

The Templars however offered a more measured and realistic view of magic then the alternative.

Slaughtering every single mage, and leaving the future mages of the world without leadership, guidance, or even training, thus condeming the world to either slaughtering children for eternity, or dealing with mages learning the myseries of magics on their own, without help or guidance.

This is simply not feasible. If you cannot live with mages having more rights than the Circle system had, well, recognize it's just a fictional setting and mages don't exist in real life, but you are worrying me about your willingness to call for total genocide.

Now i am firm in belief and conviction that every senior enchanter, The Grand Enchanter and all the war leaders of the Mages must be put to the sword because within them lies the seeds that caused this war within them lies the seeds for Thedas reverting to the Imperium.

Magic must be controlled, monitored and tightly regulated.

Freedom is a noble ideal, a noble belief and something worth fighting for but when you apply that belief to mages you need to factor in the risk and possible cost.

It far outweighs the palty amount of lives my solution calls for.

And that said you are assuming a great many things about me namely me suggesting that mages as a whole should be killed, no they are a valuable resource one that shoud be used and exploited, it is what makes Thedas strong, it is what provides the circle and chantry its wealth.

No what i desire isn't death but control.

If the mages must be killed to a man so be it, i wouldn't object if that was the only choice presented but i would much prefer restructuring the circles a bit.

If anything the Templars pre war were FAR too lelient and lax, i have observed Merdith and while her actions and character are questionable her beliefs are far from incorrect.

Mages represent a grave threat and come with a responbility most are unwilling or incapable of meeting, Harrowings should be preformed continiously in my eye. Through out a mages life, to prove that they are capable of fighting off demonic influence whatever their age or power.

Circles should be on permenant lock down barring state order or chantry authorization, they thought circles were prisons before? they should see the reforms i intend.

That said i would prefer the mages live, enchanters are useful, mages are useful, having pet mages within the army provides them an edge, but i don't blindly ignore their dangers.

To me? they are a resource.

[Xilizhra]

"I designed the Catalyst to preserve life at any cost possible."

Such are the glories of roleplaying, which I thought you were trying to uphold.

[Br3admax]

EntropicAngel wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Can we maybe stop beating on Xil now? We kinda got the point across.

I don't think any "beating" is going on.

And if it is, it's not mean-spirited.

Shut up, yo. 

[addiction21]

Xilizhra wrote...

To clarify, Shepard in Control is in a wholly unique situation with powers I doubt I'd wish on anyone else; it only worked out because I'd more or less designed her character to be as morally upstanding as possible. It's not something I'd want to see, well, repeated.

Your "morally upstanding" scares the **** out of me.

I'd be damned by my appearance and what my ancestors may or may not have done alone.

[Xilizhra]

addiction21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

To clarify, Shepard in Control is in a wholly unique situation with powers I doubt I'd wish on anyone else; it only worked out because I'd more or less designed her character to be as morally upstanding as possible. It's not something I'd want to see, well, repeated.

Your "morally upstanding" scares the **** out of me.

I'd be damned by my appearance and what my ancestors may or may not have done alone.

If you'd kept up, you'd know that I mentioned that I was against expelling all human inhabitants from the Dales. I just don't want to let Orlais off the hook for genocide.