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[Gwydden]

Dwarves keep some of their stereotypical traits, such as living within mountains and being very crafty, but instead of a simple society where most dwarves drink ale and brawl all day they have an extremely strict caste system, where being highborn is paramount, more so than anything else, in fact.

Sometimes I see Dragon Age dwarves as a hybrid between classic dwarves and classic dark elves. That actually makes sense, since both creatures were one and the same (or at least extremely similar) in original norse mythology.

[RazorrX]

I find that the basic concept that they created the world with is what really gets me.

"What would you do in a world where a charm spell was real? Do you really like/trust the mage or had he charmed you?" Where would that level of paranoia go? Kill them all? Lock them away?

Then you add some other stuff and the world is just interesting.

How did the darkspawn really come into being? Is the chantry correct OR did the dwarves delve too deep and stumble upon black lyrium or something that corrupted THEM first? Are the Old gods actually gods or just Dragon Megladons?

[Dutchess]

Cyanide Disaster wrote...

You reference the Witcher constantly; I've never played that game, nor do I really feel like it. So to me, these are very unique still. Other than the Witcher, do you have any other examples? Because I none come to mind for me.

Constantly? I mentioned Witcher twice, comparing dwarves and elves. For elves' declining power, I mentioned LOTR as well, though those elves are certainly not as down-trodden as those in DA. In the "Elves" novels from Bernard Hennen, elves are struggling to survive against humans (and trolls). Though they are long-lived, their numbers are dwindling and they can't win from the humans in battle, simply because there are a lot more humans than elves. I don't know if these books are available in English, though. The writer is German and I read the Dutch translation of the books.
In the book Shadowmarch from Tad Williams, the Qar, a species who seem similar to elves (though other creaturs are o****end among them as well) have been driven to the edge of extinction because humans thought they were the cause of a plague. They were forced to retreat behind a magically created border. In this case they are not really second-class citizens, because they live separated from humans, but it is another example of humans forcing a long-lived, mysterious species into retreat.
I mainly referenced the Witcher because the comparison with that setting is the strongest. I don't know about dwarves, though. I'm not as interested in them as I am in elves, so I haven't read many books on them yet.  

As for the contradictions.. I have a few different theories on that. Some of the inconsistencies can be give to the fact that all the history we have was either given by characters or by 'word-of-mouth' (Codexs). Brother Giovanti or whatever had said a lot of things that have been contradicted elsewhere, but if you compare history books from Canada and the US you will find inconsistencies as well (Example: War of 1812. I'm Canadian, our history books tell us we won the war because of the French Canadian Militia and the British who we were colonized by at the time. US history states they won said war). As for the visual differences of the Qunari and Elves/ Darkspawn in DAO and DA2 CAN be explained as Varric's narration (but Sten is one of the Hornless Qunari which are uncommon but not unheard of).

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I see those suggestions as ad hoc defences of errors and things that really are just inconsistencies. I especially dislike the excuse of Varric's narration for everything that's over-the-top or is otherwise a flaw. Exploding bodies? Oh, that's just Varric. Mages teleporting around the battlefield? It just looked like that to Varric. They were actually invisible and running realllly fast. Meredith jumping high into the sky, doing a backflip and landing safely on her feet? Varric is just embellishing a bit. I believe I've even seen the recycled dungeons being blamed on Varric, as in that he would not be bothered to describe every cave they went into. And why Varric would describe darkspawn as white... things that walked funny while they were green in DAO, or elves as having huge eyes and an odd forehead and nosebridge and a really long neck.... no. 

You also have to remember that there were YEARS inbetween the production of those two games, allowing for new technology/ graphics to be available, and even a new platform for this next one, so they are able to do more than they could with Origins or even 2. 

Never the less, thank you for your input!

DA2 apparently has taken between 1 and 2 years. That isn't that long, and as far as I understand, 2 used the same enginge as DAO, it was just tweaked a bit more. However, I can't claim to know much of the technology involved in creating a game, so I wouldn't know how much opportunities were missed in the first game due to limitations. But lore contradictions, a shifty timeline, resurrected characters, elves suddenly turning into aliens, and darkspawn (and Qunari) changing color and seeing a dentist can't be blamed on hardware of software limitations.

In Exile wrote...

DA lore is not like TW lore when it comes to the elves. The lore suggests that the elves were (i) the victims in their plight and (ii) generally not a racial supremacist empire currently participating in the genocide of the dwarves when the humans came around. At least (ii) happened to be the case in TW lore. Whether (i) was the case is a bit more contestable, since the elves are victims in the modern setting, but they were not good people.

Sure, the details can be different, but my point was that elves having lost their empire and no longer being in power is not unique and limited to DA. I don't see what elves being good people or not has to do with anything. Many humans in TW are not good people either.

[budzai]

Nothing. But there are good characters, drama and epicness (ultimate sacrifice is one of the most epic ending in a video game IMO, and then you get respect from Sten man! ) . Dark Ritaal is a nice add too. Do you sell your soul to the devil? ( of course it is not certain but we shall see...)

[Eterna]

MasterScribe wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

there is plenty of stuff about Dragon Age that is unique and not a rip off.

Name one thing that isn't derivative of any other fantasy series. 

Dwarven Legion of the Dead. 

A military organization that accepts anyone and whose members fight until death?

That's not original.

Their purpose isn't.  Other things are. Like the fact that their entire society thinks they are dead. 

That is such a minor and insignificant detail, though. Any long-gone militiaman or exile is considered dead too.

I don't think the DA series is meant to be "unique," since every conceivable idea and concept has already been done (even if RARELY done).  

It's just meant to be interesting in its juxtaposition of different things in the fantasy setting.

None of the concepts in Dragon Age are unqiue, that is impossbile with the amount of fiction these days. What makes it unique is how these concepts interact with one another and the small unique tidbits they have. 

The Legion of the Dead as a concept isn't unqiue, how it ineracts with the world around it and its place within Dwarven society is. 

[Gwydden]

And why Varric would describe darkspawn as white... things that walked funny while they were green in DAO, or elves as having huge eyes and an odd forehead and nosebridge and a really long neck.... no.

I've played DAO three times so far, which I understand may not seem a lot to many people, but still...

Darkspawn were green?

[Dutchess]

Gwydden wrote...

And why Varric would describe darkspawn as white... things that walked funny while they were green in DAO, or elves as having huge eyes and an odd forehead and nosebridge and a really long neck.... no.

I've played DAO three times so far, which I understand may not seem a lot to many people, but still...

Darkspawn were green?

Well, the genlocks looked greenish to me.

Modifié par renjility, 21 septembre 2013 - 09:16 .

[Vicious]

Gwydden wrote...

And why Varric would describe darkspawn as white... things that walked funny while they were green in DAO, or elves as having huge eyes and an odd forehead and nosebridge and a really long neck.... no.

I've played DAO three times so far, which I understand may not seem a lot to many people, but still...

Darkspawn were green?

The dwarf ones were. They were indistinguishable from small LOTR orks 

Modifié par Vicious, 21 septembre 2013 - 09:20 .

[Gwydden]

Now I kind of see it, but there weren't any genlocks in DA2. Which I agree, was a terrible oversight.

[Azaron Nightblade]

I'd have to go with the setting, the huge amount of lore and detail.
The characters, and to an extend the nations themselves, are varied and complex.
There is no "Sauron, the Dark Lord of Mordor the obviously evil nation", or "Szass Tam, Lich Lord of Thay - country of necromancers and things that go bump in the night"  - the closest thing Thedas has to that is Tevinter with it's corrupt Magisters.

Another thing I greatly appreciate about the lore is that a lot of it is open to interpretation.
Is there really something like the Maker? How about the original Magisters that are said to have set foot in the Golden City and turned it black?
Just recently while playing through DAO again I came across the Lyrium codex entry and the following bit made me pause and consider:

Lyrium has its costs, however. Prolonged use becomes addictive, the cravings unbearable. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours. Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human.

What if the Magisters the Chantry speaks of are indeed the first Darkspawn? But rather than ever setting foot into the Golden City they were simply very powerful Mages, who extended their lifespans through Blood Magic for so long that eventually the vast amounts of Lyrium that they consumed all those years really did turn them into monsters.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 21 septembre 2013 - 09:32 .

[budzai]

MasterScribe wrote...

budzai wrote...

Nothing. But there are good characters, drama and epicness (ultimate sacrifice is one of the most epic ending in a video game IMO, and then you get respect from Sten man! ) . Dark Ritaal is a nice add too. Do you sell your soul to the devil? ( of course it is not certain but we shall see...)

You're not really selling your soul to the devil, though.

Your soul plays no part in a transaction.

And Morrigan is just a socially-inept (possibly misanthropic) human with dubious (but potentially noble) intentions.

I know I said it as a metaphore... Don't know why but when Morrigan offers the ritual always this sentence come in my mind. You do something (something evil IMO) to save yourself. You choose the easy way...

We shall see what Morrigan is up to (as I said it too) but I don't trust her. Remeber she is very-very manipulative

[In Exile]

renjility wrote...
Sure, the details can be different, but my point was that elves having lost their empire and no longer being in power is not unique and limited to DA. I don't see what elves being good people or not has to do with anything. Many humans in TW are not good people either.

It's a very different take on what it means to be a downtrodden elf. In DA, the elves are victims. In TW... the elves are kind of victims in the sense that the wrong people are getting punished. 

[In Exile]

budzai wrote...

Nothing. But there are good characters, drama and epicness (ultimate sacrifice is one of the most epic ending in a video game IMO, and then you get respect from Sten man! ) . Dark Ritaal is a nice add too. Do you sell your soul to the devil? ( of course it is not certain but we shall see...)

I can't see how the DR has a downside. It's not like the original plan was something different from "kill tainted old god". If it survives, that's just a good reason to kill the thing again. 

[Ferretinabun]

Gwydden wrote...

Now I kind of see it, but there weren't any genlocks in DA2. Which I agree, was a terrible oversight.

There was in Legacy.

[Gwydden]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Now I kind of see it, but there weren't any genlocks in DA2. Which I agree, was a terrible oversight.

There was in Legacy.

I haven't played it yet. My apologies.

[a7rivera]

To me it's not so much what makes DA unique, it's how it was executed. The story and lore itself is clearly based on other works like Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, and Wheel of Time. But just because it borrows from other sources doesn't make it a bad thing. To me, what makes Dragon Age special is creating a hero that you see fit and make choices that more or less affect the world around you as well as the chemistry of the people you interact with.

[ev76]

For me, what makes the dragon age lore so special is that it's the first type of games I play with this type of lore in it. It had many firsts for me in the aspect of dealing with elves, dwarfs etc. after playing dragon age origins I then tried oblivion. It was not the same. I did not find the lore as interesting, or maybe as immersive as dragon age.

I think part of the reason I find it special besides it being the first, for me is how they go about telling their stories, how weapons are also part of the history of thedas etc.

[Cainhurst Crow]

It's competently written and the other races seem to have legitimate cultural differences. There are multiple factions with multiple conflicts dotted throughout history, not a repeat of the same two forces over and over. And it has 1 unique race in it, the qunari, and their entire ultra utilitarian society. Those are the small things that make dragon age different, because outside of that?

[myahele]

I like how the blight is inevitable for the most part.

Normally in other fantasy stories once the dark lord is killed + artifact of doom destroyed = happily ever after.

Nobody knows for certain when the next blight will come. The dsrkspawn taint will render lands inhospitable for who knows how long. Dwarves will still be doomed to fight the dark spawn when theres no blight. Plus it seems darkspawns will continue to exists even with no old gods.

Overall nothing truly unique if you wanna think too deep about. But interesting enough

[dduane o]

I thinks it's not much of the lore but the relationship your character can build with your companions. To some extend you would say that Dragon Age is a generic fantasy game that follows both the hero's quest and the battle with the impending doom.

I admire Dragon Age because of two things: The gameplay and the characters.

The characters; they stick with you and they vary. They come from different shapes and sizes, origins and beliefs. They also surprises me time to time, which grew on me. Made the game an adventure with me itself. It made me felt like my choices matter in a sense that if I make a choice I could kill my friend or if that choice was selfish, destroy my world.

The gameplay: It's not for this thread but tactical view mix with chess and action. I won't explain any further.

The lore itself isn't really that special but knowing that your companions are actually a living part of the lore is pretty awesome, Morrigan is the witch of the wild's daughter, Alistair is King Calenhad's descendant, even Shale is a golem who might have fought well before the first blight. This made the lore more interesting, your character is walking with legends.

[Br3admax]

Absolutely nothing. I like Dragon Age more for the characters and interaction with the world than the Europesque setting.

[Mykel54]

The DA setting takes classical fantasy archetypes and then try to portray them in a grey world, instead of the usual fantasy tale. Most people like seeing the familiar archetypes receive a face-lift rather than bring up something completely different that they´re unfamiliar with. WC3 was sucessful because it suceeded in breaking the standard cliche fantasy of WC2.

Most fantasy settings try to renew the genre one way or another, and so far the DA is managing it pretty well. If anything you could criticise that DA relies too much on characters to engage the player in the setting, but hey, it works.