114 réponses à ce sujet

[thmabes]

There's a regrettable subset of players who just make stuff up in order to make their preferred endings seem more desirable.)

Yeah this is sad. I really can't blame them though. I thought about forgetting about the ending completely and just making up my own crap. There would have always been that "hole" in me somewhere that would know it wasn't really how it was. 

[Mathias]

Sounds to me that you just desperately wanted to love the series again like you did before ME3 first released. So you convinced yourself that the ending is good now. You're not the only one that's come off this way.

Look think whatever you want but both the Original and EC endings are BS. Sure the EC explains more (did it really have to?) and shows you pretty slides at the end, but the fundamental ideas behind the ending is still awful. Here's how it goes down:


Original Ending: Awful writing, Awful execution.

Extended Cut: Awful writing, Decent execution.

Bottom line it just wasnt fitting and worthy of the franchise that they created. The story, characters and the fans deserved a better and more satisfying ending. Not this tryhard edgy nonsense.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 22 septembre 2013 - 07:21 .

[thmabes]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Sounds to me that you just desperately wanted to love the series again like you did before ME3 first released. So you convinced yourself that the ending is good now. You're not the only one that's come off this way.

I can understand why you think that way.From a psychological point of view I can see how maybe I wanted a perfect ending so bad I made the necessary adjustments to get myself there. It doesn't seem that way in retrospect, but I can see that happening. To me the DLC/EC really made everything tie together at the end.

Bottom line it just wasnt fitting and worthy of the franchise that they created. The story, characters and the fans deserved a better and more satisfying ending. Not this tryhard edgy nonsense.

I can agree with this statement if put in the time frame of when it was first launched. But I feel the DLC/EC added what I personally needed to fill the gaps of my understanding.

[Assuming Direct Control]

thmabes wrote...

There's a regrettable subset of players who just make stuff up in order to make their preferred endings seem more desirable.)

Yeah this is sad. I really can't blame them though. I thought about forgetting about the ending completely and just making up my own crap. There would have always been that "hole" in me somewhere that would know it wasn't really how it was. 

To be honest, I loved the idea of the Indoctrination Theory ending and deep down I wished that this was the reality of the ending after all - sometimes I like to think that IT could still be true, but the EC endings seem to diminish the probability of that being correct unfortunately. All the evidence that came together to form the Indoctrination Theory was profound, compelling, convincing and almost mind-blowing; it was just a beautiful theory of what the ending truly was, in my opinion. Indeed, I'd go as far to say as if IT was taken as lore and canon, then it would be the best ending to any game trilogy and perhaps any film/TV series ever. 

[NeroonWilliams]

Assuming Direct Control wrote...

To be honest, I loved the idea of the Indoctrination Theory ending and deep down I wished that this was the reality of the ending after all - sometimes I like to think that IT could still be true, but the EC endings seem to diminish the probability of that being correct unfortunately. All the evidence that came together to form the Indoctrination Theory was profound, compelling, convincing and almost mind-blowing; it was just a beautiful theory of what the ending truly was, in my opinion. Indeed, I'd go as far to say as if IT was taken as lore and canon, then it would be the best ending to any game trilogy and perhaps any film/TV series ever. 

Yep.

And The twin towers were ordered to be knocked down by G. W. Bush, and JFK was assassinated by the CIA.

Wanting something to be true doesn't make it so.

[NeroonWilliams]

And posts like mine were why IT was banished to the groups.

[thmabes]

Yeah.... the indoctrination theory had some pretty compelling evidence. It seems pretty clear due to the EC that Bioware didn't want us to think that was true. Although I think I remember one of the mass effect team members saying that they want everyone to interpret the ending as they see fit... so take that for what you will.

[Andrew Lucas]

I enjoyed the endings (EC),if Bioware had more time to finish the game i think there will be less rage.

[Googleness]

Ending is not bad story wise.
it's bad because everything you did in ME1 \\ 2 and 3 is utterly worthless you can get same ending choices by just playing mp.

right now when I start new game on ME3 I got EMS of 8000+ just from mp.

Also the choices themselves there is no smart reasoning behind them I mean let's take control...

if you could do control ONLY by siding with TIM and giving him the collectors base on ME2 it would have been better.

Synthesis only if you made peace with the geth, saved legion and did the geth server mission on ME3 so technically shep is now "tuned" right to combine the dna.

About destroy I think they should have made that one to "weaken" the reapers lowering their hive mind strength and allow to the armies of the galaxy to kick their ass BUT depends on your choices of allies and military strength you get to save people or planets. Let's say your military strength is crap you'll kill the reapers but lose all planets (capitals) and most of the major armies.
If you had epic fleets and united leadership then you won't lose and planet (I mean that planet is still habitable) and key NPC leaders will survive while fleets will do well to defeat the reapers.

just my 2 cents.

[AlanC9]

Googleness wrote...

Ending is not bad story wise.
it's bad because everything you did in ME1 2 and 3 is utterly worthless you can get same ending choices by just playing mp.
.

I agree that's a problem, but I'd call it a problem with the MP.

[Googleness]

Alan... I really wish they would give a way to remove my N7 rank from war assets on my last playthrough I got like 17k EMS and knew it was same strength choice wise as 4k. utterly useless.

[Reorte]

Googleness wrote...

Alan... I really wish they would give a way to remove my N7 rank from war assets on my last playthrough I got like 17k EMS and knew it was same strength choice wise as 4k. utterly useless.

Start up the game offline? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that DLC is still supposed to work if you do that.

[Mathias]

Googleness wrote...

Ending is not bad story wise.

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

it's bad because everything you did in ME1 2 and 3 is utterly worthless you can get same ending choices by just playing mp.

right now when I start new game on ME3 I got EMS of 8000+ just from mp.

Also the choices themselves there is no smart reasoning behind them I mean let's take control...

if you could do control ONLY by siding with TIM and giving him the collectors base on ME2 it would have been better.

Synthesis only if you made peace with the geth, saved legion and did the geth server mission on ME3 so technically shep is now "tuned" right to combine the dna.

About destroy I think they should have made that one to "weaken" the reapers lowering their hive mind strength and allow to the armies of the galaxy to kick their ass BUT depends on your choices of allies and military strength you get to save people or planets. Let's say your military strength is crap you'll kill the reapers but lose all planets (capitals) and most of the major armies.
If you had epic fleets and united leadership then you won't lose and planet (I mean that planet is still habitable) and key NPC leaders will survive while fleets will do well to defeat the reapers.

just my 2 cents.

And yea, that's the other reason too.

[angol fear]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

The "Do and don't do rules" don't exist in writing. Only beginners trust these rules because it helps to start writing. But when you've got experience, you see how ridiculous is this site with these rules.
Actually, in writing there is only one real rule and Mass Effect 3 didn't break it, it's just the opposite.
Instead of complaining, and trying to justify their hate (because they didn't have what they wanted), people should try to understand the writing (that's what everyone is supposed to do when they read, play...). The writing of Mass Effect is very coherent and the original ending is the most appropriate.

[Iakus]

angol fear wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

The "Do and don't do rules" don't exist in writing. Only beginners trust these rules because it helps to start writing. But when you've got experience, you see how ridiculous is this site with these rules.
Actually, in writing there is only one real rule and Mass Effect 3 didn't break it, it's just the opposite.
Instead of complaining, and trying to justify their hate (because they didn't have what they wanted), people should try to understand the writing (that's what everyone is supposed to do when they read, play...). The writing of Mass Effect is very coherent and the original ending is the most appropriate.

I understand the endings just fine.

They're still bad.

[Dubozz]

At least someone like this retarded ending. Acceptance phase indeed.

[Cobalt2113]

@Iakus Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Wish more haters would figure that out. Most of the posts around here need a "in my opinion" at the end.

[angol fear]

iakus wrote...

angol fear wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

The "Do and don't do rules" don't exist in writing. Only beginners trust these rules because it helps to start writing. But when you've got experience, you see how ridiculous is this site with these rules.
Actually, in writing there is only one real rule and Mass Effect 3 didn't break it, it's just the opposite.
Instead of complaining, and trying to justify their hate (because they didn't have what they wanted), people should try to understand the writing (that's what everyone is supposed to do when they read, play...). The writing of Mass Effect is very coherent and the original ending is the most appropriate.

I understand the endings just fine.

They're still bad.

Did I say "understand the ending" or "understand the writing"? You should read again.
You sound quite pretentious. As long as people don't get the writing, they can't say they understand the ending.

[Iakus]

angol fear wrote...

iakus wrote...

angol fear wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

The "Do and don't do rules" don't exist in writing. Only beginners trust these rules because it helps to start writing. But when you've got experience, you see how ridiculous is this site with these rules.
Actually, in writing there is only one real rule and Mass Effect 3 didn't break it, it's just the opposite.
Instead of complaining, and trying to justify their hate (because they didn't have what they wanted), people should try to understand the writing (that's what everyone is supposed to do when they read, play...). The writing of Mass Effect is very coherent and the original ending is the most appropriate.

I understand the endings just fine.

They're still bad.

Did I say "understand the ending" or "understand the writing"? You should read again.
You sound quite pretentious. As long as people don't get the writing, they can't say they understand the ending.

Pot.  Meet kettle.

I understand the endings.  I understand the reasons, as they were (minimally) explained.  I understand the intentions.  And I have followed the Mass Effect trilogy from the beginning.

The endings still sucked

[Mathias]

iakus wrote...

angol fear wrote...

iakus wrote...

angol fear wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah it is. Not only is it bad story telling, it isn't even proper storytelling either. You should check out the Writer's Digest Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending. Bioware broke almost every rule on that list, it's mindboggling.

The "Do and don't do rules" don't exist in writing. Only beginners trust these rules because it helps to start writing. But when you've got experience, you see how ridiculous is this site with these rules.
Actually, in writing there is only one real rule and Mass Effect 3 didn't break it, it's just the opposite.
Instead of complaining, and trying to justify their hate (because they didn't have what they wanted), people should try to understand the writing (that's what everyone is supposed to do when they read, play...). The writing of Mass Effect is very coherent and the original ending is the most appropriate.

I understand the endings just fine.

They're still bad.

Did I say "understand the ending" or "understand the writing"? You should read again.
You sound quite pretentious. As long as people don't get the writing, they can't say they understand the ending.

Pot.  Meet kettle.

I understand the endings.  I understand the reasons, as they were (minimally) explained.  I understand the intentions.  And I have followed the Mass Effect trilogy from the beginning.

The endings still sucked

Yup.

Here's the thing, I can't say the ending is objectively bad without sounding like a jerk, because it really does come down to opinion. But Mass Effect 3's ending is one of those exceptions where the line between Subjective and Objective blurs.  When an overwhelming amount of fans tell you it's bad, when a number of writers from TV shows and movies tell you it's bad, when Bioware caves in and spends time and resources on a DLC in an attempt to fix it, then that should tell you something.

I have no problem with people liking the ending, it's when they say it was a good ending that I have a problem with it. Look even though someone can say "Oh I loved the ending, it was perfect for me." Couldn't they at least think "Well I loved the ending and thought it was appropriate, but man sooo many people hated it and came up with lists of reasons to criticize it. So even though I liked it, maybe it wasn't the ending the series deserved."

And I'll say this, I'm fully capable of admitting that, and I have. In fact just recently with Man of Steel. I absolutely loved Man of Steel and thought it was a great movie. But I looked at how polarizing it was, and I do recognize it has some glaring flaws to it. So even though I loved the movie, I'll admit that it wasn't the Superman film we deserved. 



Btw, there are rules when it comes to writing. The Dos and Don'ts it's a great list, and it's pointless to try and say that the list make no sense when Bioware broke those rules and they ended up being the reasons why people hated the ending. That should tell you that there's a lot of truth to that Writer's Digest article. It certainly is possible to break those rules and make it work, but you gotta be a good writer to pull that off, and evidently Mac and Casey are not. Even if they were, is it really smart to take such a risk in the finale of a trilogy that's been in the making for 5 years and is beloved by so many?

Foolishness. Pure unadulterated foolishness.

[Han Shot First]

While I hated the original endings, I'm okay with the post-EC endings. Or at least I'm okay with post-EC High EMS Destroy.

I think the endings are still flawed, but nothing short of a complete rewrite was going to fix the original endings entirely. Short of a rewrite, I think Bioware patched up the endings as much could be done with the Extended Cut. The EC at least managed to salvage the series for me. Without it I'd have had no interest in a sequel.

[Mathias]

Han Shot First wrote...

While I hated the original endings, I'm okay with the post-EC endings. Or at least I'm okay with post-EC High EMS Destroy.

I think the endings are still flawed, but nothing short of a complete rewrite was going to fix the original endings entirely. Short of a rewrite, I think Bioware patched up the endings as much could be done with the Extended Cut. The EC at least managed to salvage the series for me. Without it I'd have had no interest in a sequel.

Here's how I do it.

I play through ME3 and then at some point I do the Citadel DLC mission, but I don't throw the party. I create a seperate save right after I kill Dark Shepard, and then I continue with the game. At the end I choose High EMS Destroy, and then once that breath scene hits, I exit the game and reload my old save where my Shepard is hanging in his apartment and then I throw the party. I just pretend that it's a month or two later and we're throwing a victory party. And it all ends with that scene at the Normandy docking bay. 

[thmabes]

Yup.

Here's the thing, I can't say the ending is objectively bad without sounding like a jerk, because it really does come down to opinion. But Mass Effect 3's ending is one of those exceptions where the line between Subjective and Objective blurs.  When an overwhelming amount of fans tell you it's bad, when a number of writers from TV shows and movies tell you it's bad, when Bioware caves in and spends time and resources on a DLC in an attempt to fix it, then that should tell you something.

I have no problem with people liking the ending, it's when they say it was a good ending that I have a problem with it. Look even though someone can say "Oh I loved the ending, it was perfect for me." Couldn't they at least think "Well I loved the ending and thought it was appropriate, but man sooo many people hated it and came up with lists of reasons to criticize it. So even though I liked it, maybe it wasn't the ending the series deserved."

And I'll say this, I'm fully capable of admitting that, and I have. In fact just recently with Man of Steel. I absolutely loved Man of Steel and thought it was a great movie. But I looked at how polarizing it was, and I do recognize it has some glaring flaws to it. So even though I loved the movie, I'll admit that it wasn't the Superman film we deserved. 



Btw, there are rules when it comes to writing. The Dos and Don'ts it's a great list, and it's pointless to try and say that the list make no sense when Bioware broke those rules and they ended up being the reasons why people hated the ending. That should tell you that there's a lot of truth to that Writer's Digest article. It certainly is possible to break those rules and make it work, but you gotta be a good writer to pull that off, and evidently Mac and Casey are not. Even if they were, is it really smart to take such a risk in the finale of a trilogy that's been in the making for 5 years and is beloved by so many?

Foolishness. Pure unadulterated foolishness.

I don't think its fair to bring up the existence of the DLC and EC as evidence of a bad ending. Bioware was in a very hard place. Bioware has stated on multiple occassions that they believe ME3 was their best work and they were all shocked at the reception of the fans. Appealing to fans, stock holders, and anyone that would ever do business with them in the future is a very hard line to walk I am sure. They really didn't have a choice here. Even if they truly believed their endings were fine on day one. Like I mentioned before, I am sad that they had to include DLC's and the EC at all in order to complete the story for me. But in all honesty they had to do something to attempt to quell the flames, regardless of how the company actually felt about the endings.

[thmabes]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Here's how I do it.

I play through ME3 and then at some point I do the Citadel DLC mission, but I don't throw the party. I create a seperate save right after I kill Dark Shepard, and then I continue with the game. At the end I choose High EMS Destroy, and then once that breath scene hits, I exit the game and reload my old save where my Shepard is hanging in his apartment and then I throw the party. I just pretend that it's a month or two later and we're throwing a victory party. And it all ends with that scene at the Normandy docking bay. 

I like it 

[Iakus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Here's how I do it.

I play through ME3 and then at some point I do the Citadel DLC mission, but I don't throw the party. I create a seperate save right after I kill Dark Shepard, and then I continue with the game. At the end I choose High EMS Destroy, and then once that breath scene hits, I exit the game and reload my old save where my Shepard is hanging in his apartment and then I throw the party. I just pretend that it's a month or two later and we're throwing a victory party. And it all ends with that scene at the Normandy docking bay. 

Do you use the Citadel Epilogue Mod, or are you waiting on MEHEM v0.4?