114 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

thmabes wrote...

I don't think its fair to bring up the existence of the DLC and EC as evidence of a bad ending. Bioware was in a very hard place. Bioware has stated on multiple occassions that they believe ME3 was their best work and they were all shocked at the reception of the fans. Appealing to fans, stock holders, and anyone that would ever do business with them in the future is a very hard line to walk I am sure. They really didn't have a choice here. Even if they truly believed their endings were fine on day one. Like I mentioned before, I am sad that they had to include DLC's and the EC at all in order to complete the story for me. But in all honesty they had to do something to attempt to quell the flames, regardless of how the company actually felt about the endings.

The fact that they were shocked has me deeply suspicious of anything new they'll come up with for Mass Effect.  Ifthey can't understand why so many people hated the endings and were unwilling to make more than cosmetic changes to them, why should I get invested in any new stories?  Why make a new character that will just be taken away from me?  Why invest myself in a story that can shoot off in any random direction at a given moment?

[cooldonkeyfish]

 I agree, that's exactly how I felt.
Honestly I've been a huge ME fan since day 1. I've played through all 3 countless times (the first game 16 times, work it out from there) and I've always taken all the time that I can to go into depth n every aspect. The very first time I saw the ending I had almost exactly that same feeling that you did.
The second time I did the ending I chose the "perfect" destroy ending where shepard takes in a breath. By this point I'd read all of the online reviews and was just as angry as you were, and I couldn't help seeing the flaws in it.
The 3rd time I played it was after I'd waited for the extended cut. This character that I'd made was finally one that I truly meshed with and, like you, the decision truly reflected what I felt myself and the character stood for.

[Mathias]

iakus wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Here's how I do it.

I play through ME3 and then at some point I do the Citadel DLC mission, but I don't throw the party. I create a seperate save right after I kill Dark Shepard, and then I continue with the game. At the end I choose High EMS Destroy, and then once that breath scene hits, I exit the game and reload my old save where my Shepard is hanging in his apartment and then I throw the party. I just pretend that it's a month or two later and we're throwing a victory party. And it all ends with that scene at the Normandy docking bay. 

Do you use the Citadel Epilogue Mod, or are you waiting on MEHEM v0.4?

Never heard of it, but do tell!

I have heard of the MEHEM but man I really had to use my imagination on that one. Don't get me wrong, Mr. Fob accomplished something very difficult given how mod unfriendly ME3 is. But once CItadel dropped, I found it easier to just do what I mentioned above. I haven't seen v0.4 yet, i'll check it out.

[Iakus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Never heard of it, but do tell!

I have heard of the MEHEM but man I really had to use my imagination on that one. Don't get me wrong, Mr. Fob accomplished something very difficult given how mod unfriendly ME3 is. But once CItadel dropped, I found it easier to just do what I mentioned above. I haven't seen v0.4 yet, i'll check it out.

http://social.biowar.../index/17084774

Changes and removes refrences to the Reaper War in the present tense from Citadel, so you can imagine it's post Priority Earth.  You can choose to install the full or "lite" (party only) version

Apparantly it will be an option in MEHEM v0.4 as well.

Modifié par iakus, 24 septembre 2013 - 02:40 .

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

thmabes wrote...

I don't think its fair to bring up the existence of the DLC and EC as evidence of a bad ending. Bioware was in a very hard place. Bioware has stated on multiple occassions that they believe ME3 was their best work and they were all shocked at the reception of the fans. Appealing to fans, stock holders, and anyone that would ever do business with them in the future is a very hard line to walk I am sure. They really didn't have a choice here. Even if they truly believed their endings were fine on day one. Like I mentioned before, I am sad that they had to include DLC's and the EC at all in order to complete the story for me. But in all honesty they had to do something to attempt to quell the flames, regardless of how the company actually felt about the endings.

The fact that they were shocked has me deeply suspicious of anything new they'll come up with for Mass Effect.  Ifthey can't understand why so many people hated the endings and were unwilling to make more than cosmetic changes to them, why should I get invested in any new stories?  Why make a new character that will just be taken away from me?  Why invest myself in a story that can shoot off in any random direction at a given moment?

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

[Dubozz]

GimmeDaGun wrote..

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

Some guy in the internet told the other one what do with his life. Please continue, this is very interesting. Apparenty internet telephaty is one of your strongest skills and you can easily read BSN users personal life goals and interests. I don't mean to be rude, but who the **** are you to tell other people what they should do?  

Modifié par Dubozz, 24 septembre 2013 - 05:51 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Dubozz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote..

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

Some guy in the internet told the other one what do with his life. Please continue, this is very interesting. Apparenty internet telephaty is one of your strongest skills and you can easily read BSN users personal life goals and interests. I don't mean to be rude, but who the **** are you to tell other people what they should do?  

Sorry mate, I wasn't trying to be hostile or anything nor I intended to tell anyone what to do (even if I did, it would not change a thing). I was just asking a question and reflecting (with a non-destructive suggestion) on something iakus wrote. And you're right. Sometimes you can't really get across what you aim to say via the internet. It lacks the human element. You only see some anonymus person throwing digits at you. 

It seems what I wanted to say to iakus came off as an antagonistic remark. Sure, I have an opinion about the aimless and endless complaining about something, especially if that something is not that important at all, but it does not mean that I have an opinion about the person who does it. I don't know him and I do not even try to pretend that I know him. Nor I intend to tell him what to do. If he's a he at all.  

Also I got my share of "suggestions", even hostility here. So I know what it's like. This was not to be anything like it. It seems I put it the wrong way then. 

But no need to be rude, man. I'm not here to pick a fight. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 24 septembre 2013 - 06:02 .

[Dubozz]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote..

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

Some guy in the internet told the other one what do with his life. Please continue, this is very interesting. Apparenty internet telephaty is one of your strongest skills and you can easily read BSN users personal life goals and interests. I don't mean to be rude, but who the **** are you to tell other people what they should do?  

Sorry mate, I wasn't trying to be hostile or anything nor I intended to tell anyone what to do (even if I did, it would not change a thing). I was just asking a question and reflecting (with a non-destructive suggestion) on something iakus wrote. And you're right. Sometimes you can't really get across what you aim to say via the internet. It lacks the human element. You only see some anonymus person throwing digits at you. 

It seems what I wanted to say to iakus came off as an antagonistic remark. Sure, I have an opinion about the aimless and endless complaining about something, especially if that something is not that important at all, but it does not mean that I have an opinion about the person who does it. I don't know him and I do not even try to pretend that I know him. Nor I intend to tell him what to do. If he's a he at all.  

Also I got my share of "suggestions", even hostility here. So I know what it's like. This was not to be anything like it. It seems I put it the wrong way then. 

But no need to be rude, man. I'm not here to pick a fight. 

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I agree with everything you said. I just wanted to point out that we are here because we care about the game. And even if we hate the ending and bash it with all our passion it's only because we don't want to see something similar again in another Bioware game. And we are ready to spend our time for this.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
An interesting read. I both agree and disagree. I agree that the EC endings present me with satisfying outcomes, and I'd have no problem choosing any of them. However, I take issue with the implementation. Read all the details in the final mission section of my review thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 septembre 2013 - 08:52 .

[Deverz]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Here's how I do it.

I play through ME3 and then at some point I do the Citadel DLC mission, but I don't throw the party. I create a seperate save right after I kill Dark Shepard, and then I continue with the game. At the end I choose High EMS Destroy, and then once that breath scene hits, I exit the game and reload my old save where my Shepard is hanging in his apartment and then I throw the party. I just pretend that it's a month or two later and we're throwing a victory party. And it all ends with that scene at the Normandy docking bay. 

I have to say... The ending to the Citadel DLC always has me choked up. Now that's how you do it bittersweet, Bioware. Take notes.

Regardless if Shepard survived or not, if it had ended on that docking bay with your companions either celebrating your life and sacrifice for the greater good, or celebrating your survival and victory, it would've been a hundred times better.

Apropos the ending though... I really hate the religous undertones and subtle mysticism in the ending... With the Adam & Eve allusion and Shepard becoming Space Jesus. It's just so pretentious and I'm sorry to say, but cramming in biblical allusions doesn't make it good or edgy, Bioware. Making story jumps such as this is treading dangerously close to hack writing. Not only is it highly uncreative but it just comes out of nowhere and it's unnecessary. 

Mass Effect is Science Fiction, not Science Fantasy.

For the record I don't hate religion, I just hate it when story writers ham-fist crummy ideas because they think it makes it more "arty" or "edgy" when it has no reason to be there. I have no beef with BSG turning to religious mysticism because it was established from the start that it was that kind of story.

/rant

[Mathias]

So...you guys really think that Bioware was telling the truth when they said they were shocked over the ending reaction?

Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

They knew.

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

It's almost funny how  much I hear this form people who liked the endings and just want naysayers to just go away.

But to answer your question, this isn't just about ME3, this is about the next ME game, or even the next game period.  Bioware used to be my favorite RPG developer.  Now there's barely any difference between their products and some generic action game.  I hate seeing that level of degeneration in something I once loved.

If I repeat myself, then it's something I think is important.  You are free to simply not read my posts.

[Iakus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

So...you guys really think that Bioware was telling the truth when they said they were shocked over the ending reaction?

Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

They knew.

Ignorance or apathy?  I wonder which would be worse?

[JamesFaith]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

So...you guys really think that Bioware was telling the truth when they said they were shocked over the ending reaction?

Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

They knew.

Both quotes should be simply connected to fact that Shepard will die at the end. Dead of main hero will surely angry some fans and game was about Shpard's life, not his death.

You are too much conspiratory about it.

[Mathias]

JamesFaith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

So...you guys really think that Bioware was telling the truth when they said they were shocked over the ending reaction?

Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

They knew.

Both quotes should be simply connected to fact that Shepard will die at the end. Dead of main hero will surely angry some fans and game was about Shpard's life, not his death.

You are too much conspiratory about it.

It's not conspiratory. Lemme speak in the context that the ending made total sense. It was still abrupt, was differentiated only by color, was really short, and Shepard died in all 3 endings. They had to have known fans were gonna be upset about the whole thing. They HAD to. Bioware has made dumb mistakes, but overral they're not dumb people. They knew that there was a substantial potential for a PR nightmare, which is why they were setting up some early damage control.

Remember when the Board Rules were updated before the game released?

[JamesFaith]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

It's not conspiratory. Lemme speak in the context that the ending made total sense. It was still abrupt, was differentiated only by color, was really short, and Shepard died in all 3 endings. They had to have known fans were gonna be upset about the whole thing. They HAD to. Bioware has made dumb mistakes, but overral they're not dumb people. They knew that there was a substantial potential for a PR nightmare, which is why they were setting up some early damage control.

Remember when the Board Rules were updated before the game released?

So on one side i have BW knowing they made bad game with dumb endings and that they will ****** their fans with it and start ragestorm and from some strange reason warned fans about it in foggy claims.

On other side I have claims reacting on logically expected reaction on dead of main hero. 

Sorry, Occam's razor works here for me so I'm with option two.

[AlanC9]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

Knowing that some fans will be upset doesn't mean that you expect the hysterical reaction they got. I figure they were surprised by the scale and intensity of the reaction, just as they were surprised by some of the fan interpretations if the endings.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 septembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[Mathias]

JamesFaith wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

It's not conspiratory. Lemme speak in the context that the ending made total sense. It was still abrupt, was differentiated only by color, was really short, and Shepard died in all 3 endings. They had to have known fans were gonna be upset about the whole thing. They HAD to. Bioware has made dumb mistakes, but overral they're not dumb people. They knew that there was a substantial potential for a PR nightmare, which is why they were setting up some early damage control.

Remember when the Board Rules were updated before the game released?

So on one side i have BW knowing they made bad game with dumb endings and that they will ****** their fans with it and start ragestorm and from some strange reason warned fans about it in foggy claims.

On other side I have claims reacting on logically expected reaction on dead of main hero. 

Sorry, Occam's razor works here for me so I'm with option two.

In order to help your argument you took what I said and exaggerated upon it in some attempt to discredit my point. I never said Bioware were aware they made a bad game. Don't put words in my mouth. Secondly there wasn't anything foggy about Michael Gamble saying the ending will make some fans upset. That is pretty straight forward and clear.

The ragestorm I felt was warrented. They made a bunch of claims during these past 5 years that completely contradicted the final product. You can either take it lying down, or you can stand up and say "Look, this is unacceptable." And then they'll either listen to you or not.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 24 septembre 2013 - 03:42 .

[Mathias]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

Knowing that some fans will be upset doesn't mean that you expect the hysterical reaction they got. I figure they were surprised by the scale and intensity of the reaction, just as they were surprised by some of the fan interpretations if the endings.

I believe they knew a lot of people were gonna be pissed off. But I think it's fair to say they didn't know it would reach the level it got to. That in which the reaction becoming the most talked about thing in gaming for the month of March. But when you burn your fans that bad, you gotta anticipate that that could end up being one of the outcomes. It's a worse case scenario, and they got it in spades.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 24 septembre 2013 - 03:42 .

[AlanC9]

Comes with the territory. One of the best things about Bio is that they've never been afraid of burning the fans.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Guys, really, it should be no secret that they knew fans were gonna be pissed. This is evident by Michael Gamble releasing a statement a month beforehand, saying that the ending will make some fans angry. Then there was Mac Walters blogging "It's not the destination but the journey" about a few days before release.

Knowing that some fans will be upset doesn't mean that you expect the hysterical reaction they got. I figure they were surprised by the scale and intensity of the reaction, just as they were surprised by some of the fan interpretations if the endings.

And this is why I didn't believe the rumors about the ending at first.  I figured "Bioware would never do anything that stupid.  The fans would riot."

How they missed something so obvious I'll never understand.

Unless they simply didn't care.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Comes with the territory. One of the best things about Bio is that they've never been afraid of burning the fans.

Yeah, not a great long-term strategy for as succesful company...

[AlanC9]

Really? Bio's been burning fans since BG2. The reaction to NWN1 was just about as bad as the reaction to ME3. The main difference I see is that the BG2 fans ragequit, while you guys stuck around.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Really? Bio's been burning fans since BG2. The reaction to NWN1 was just about as bad as the reaction to ME3. The main difference I see is that the BG2 fans ragequit, while you guys stuck around.

Yeah I find that hard to believe.

Not that people were upset about NWN (particularly since some loading screens in BG2 said you could imoprt your character into NWN) but that it was anywhere near the rage caused by ME3.  

That's less than apples and oranges, more like cherries and watermelons.