114 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Really? Bio's been burning fans since BG2. The reaction to NWN1 was just about as bad as the reaction to ME3. The main difference I see is that the BG2 fans ragequit, while you guys stuck around.

Yeah I find that hard to believe.

Not that people were upset about NWN (particularly since some loading screens in BG2 said you could imoprt your character into NWN) but that it was anywhere near the rage caused by ME3.  

That's less than apples and oranges, more like cherries and watermelons.

To be honest, it is much more easier to rage on the Internet in 2012 (ME3) then in 2002 (NWN) - better access and cheaper internet, cheaper computers, two generations of players, Youtube (founded 2005) and so on.

You can hardly compare these two things only by scale.

[thmabes]

Wow a lot has been said!
In regards to Bioware knowing how the fans would react, I am quite sure that there is no way they could anticipate the size and scope of the rage. Its natural to have a portion of your audience not agree or dislike what you have done, but ME3 was taken to a whole other level. I believe one of the reasonings they gave was that they really couldnt see the game the same way fans do. They were all so immersed in a product that had essentially been their lives for many many years. For them to take a step back and look at their final product with a fans perspective is literally impossible. I think about it this way. When I write a paper for a class, or even sometimes a forum post or whatever, I will finish it and then at the end I will say, "I'm the ****, this is awesome writing." I will come back to that piece of writing a few days later and realize that it really wasnt as great as I thought it was. I can see this same idea happening to the Bioware team.There must not have been someone aloof (or loud) enough to get them to wake up and fix what damage was done. Not to mention the time constraints.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Yeah I find that hard to believe.

Your belief is not required.

Not that people were upset about NWN (particularly since some loading screens in BG2 said you could imoprt your character into NWN) but that it was anywhere near the rage caused by ME3.  

That's less than apples and oranges, more like cherries and watermelons.

Do you remember it differently? I don't have any objective way to measure it, and there aren't too many of us left from those days. I suppose we could ask Sylvius the Mad how he thinks it went. IIRC he was burned by BG2 betraying BG1's vision, so he's got seniority.  I'd accept him as a neutral witness, though he isn't very interested n ME3.

That BG2 loadscreen was not what many people actually had a concern with, though a few idiots did.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 septembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[Armass81]

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Then just do not. Invest in a game something you actually like instead of parrotting the same stuff for more than a year about a game (and game producing company) that you are deeply dissappointed about. It's still just a game after all, no matter how much you immeresed yourself in it and how much time you wasted of your life on it. It does not deserve this amount of ranting. 

It's been a very long time now, iakus. I just can't get my head around the fact that there are people who still waste a significant amount of their time and emotional and mental energies on something they do not like or resent out of dissappointment. I know that you hate to hear this, but have you ever considered closing this aimlss case and get over the fact that ME3 and its ending does not please your taste and expectations? I don't mean to be rude, but this self-repeating gets a bit boring after a while. Is this "stupid" game so damn important in your life?

It's almost funny how  much I hear this form people who liked the endings and just want naysayers to just go away.

But to answer your question, this isn't just about ME3, this is about the next ME game, or even the next game period.  Bioware used to be my favorite RPG developer.  Now there's barely any difference between their products and some generic action game.  I hate seeing that level of degeneration in something I once loved.

If I repeat myself, then it's something I think is important.  You are free to simply not read my posts.

Thats just todays life, big wigs and business, man... Trust me youre not the only guy who has seen something they love dearly starting to mutate into something else, some monstrosity you have hard time recognizing. I had similar experiece with Square-Enix, damn them...

Things change, not always for the better.

Modifié par Armass81, 25 septembre 2013 - 07:26 .

[shodiswe]

The EC and added stuff changed it from terrible to bad. But the series as a whole is great!

But the whole ME3 endgame start at Priority earth, some say it started earleir, but, yeah, Priority Earth. It feels like that part of the game all the way to the end was just something that was pushed out the door to finnish things up.
The final confrontation with the Reapers should have been a lot more involved than the railroaded fasttracked ride we got.

From being upset about how terrible it was, I'm just shaking my head at it these days, and remind myself that the series had a lot of good content and memories. The thing was Priority Earth jsut feelt grindy, linear and I didn't feel involved in the story being told. It was more of a shooter gallery with that anoying kid at the end that stole the whole show and with no charisma or effort put into it.

I'm also looking forward to hearing about the new Mass Effect, and hoping it will have the good stuff in it.

Modifié par shodiswe, 25 septembre 2013 - 08:22 .

[Deager]

I love this thread. And I love the trilogy.

The bit that always blows me away is Bioware made games where I was willing to react to the ending (I was a little confused and a bit bummed on my first trilogy run) and then over 1 year and 5 play throughs later I'm still crazy enough to spend about 100 hours on a mod. It's insane when I think about it.

Bottom line. Great game. I don't hate Bioware and I get what they were trying to do. Yes, I somewhat obnoxiously changed the story to my liking but never did I think Bioware had any intention of causing strife for players. They made an aggressive choice and some people flipped out. Yes, there were some things in that catalyst conversation where I expected certain responses I could make but couldn't, but still, great game and great universe.

I'm also happy to read when people truly like the endings as they are. I wish I had been that way but it's nice to see others enjoy it.

[MrCorvin]

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

[Storin]

Yeah, I still hate the endings. I'm not as upset, but I've not bought any of the single-player DLC in protest. (Yes, I know Bioware doesn't care, but it's the only thing I can do.) If anything, time has just made me more disapointed with the game, not less. Endings aside, the rest of the game feels rushed and poorly thought out to me. Major characters from ME2 are dropped for no apparent reason, major decisions from the previous games are overridden, etc. It's enjoyable, sure, but it's definately the weakest of the ME trilogy for me, even without the ending.

P.S. Bioware being willing to "burn" its fans is not a sign of a good company. Bioware has had really bad customer service for years. It actually has a reputation for it. It just made up for it in the past by releasing mostly excellent games (NWN still sucks, in my opinion, but water under the bridge, eh?).

[JacobLover]

iakus wrote...

Sorry, but I see all three choices as a betrayal of every principle my Shepard fought for over the three games.


::Rainier Wolfcastle voice::

The DLCs, they do noooothing!

I have co-sign this except for the DLC part.  The DLC (not the Javik one) for me have been awesome, especially CITADEL and the Aria one (ARIA!!!!! I hope the next game is about her!!)

The revisions just give you the option to lose even harder.  

You:  "I reject these choices!"
Postal StarChild imitates Skeletor:  "SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  BE IT!" and then wrecks everything and the cycle just continues.

The three original options are there but with more details but they are still crappy and don't allow you to "win", which is what I was playing the game to do.  TRIUMPH.  

But at least there was an in-game cutscene added explaining why the Normandy was jetting about in the Mass Relay.  

I appreciate the DLCs especially the Omega one OMG! and that they were largely no cost.  Multiplayer has been awesome and so I just play that and occassionally play through single player and just don't play the last sequence.

[dreamgazer]

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

(thumbs up)

[Iakus]

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

We shouldn't have to "settle for"

[davieo4592]

Bioware dropped the ball on the ending for sure. Its amazing how I enjoyed almost every second of the entire franchise just to get to Priority Earth and see it all unravel. I never look forward to it whenever im doing a series play through.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

We shouldn't have to "settle for"

This isn't the first underwhelming ending to a piece of entertainment fiction, and it certainly won't be the last.

[davieo4592]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

We shouldn't have to "settle for"

This isn't the first underwhelming ending to a piece of entertainment fiction, and it certainly won't be the last.

True. But its still hurtful every time it happens.

[KaiserShep]

Well, thankfully, Breaking Bad is an excellent example of how to build up to a finale, and actually nail it.

[David7204]

I'm not sure about that.

There were a hell of a lot of things that could have gone wrong with that plan.

[dreamgazer]

Breaking Bad Discussion.

[Deager]

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

Ultimately, this is my feeling as well. I just took this review and ran with an idea. Canon shmanon, I'll end it a different way.

http://arstechnica.c...sy-fan-service/

[KaiserShep]

Deager wrote...

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

Ultimately, this is my feeling as well. I just took this review and ran with an idea. Canon shmanon, I'll end it a different way.

http://arstechnica.c...sy-fan-service/

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I don't particularly care the ending, but Destroy is now fairly acceptable with the EC installed. I just use the Citadel DLC content for after-game stuff, and now just waste my time trying to finally conquer that damn N7 mirror match.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

MrCorvin wrote...

I still don't like the endings. However, I still play ME3 and settle for Destroy in the end.

We shouldn't have to "settle for"

This isn't the first underwhelming ending to a piece of entertainment fiction, and it certainly won't be the last.

Dragon Age 2 is an "underwhelming ending"  Falls flat, but didn't ruin the experience.

Mass Effect 3's ending is a whole different category for me (obviously)  It's a taint that moves backwards and forwards in time, retroactively destroying the trilogy even as it casts a shadow over everything that may come next in the series.

[voteDC]

I think my opinion of the shipped endings was coloured somewhat by the fact that I had just finished a run through Dragon Age: Origins before playing Mass Effect 3.

Origins of course ends brilliantly with scenes depicting your survival or funeral, filling you in on things from whether a bar owner survived to what type of ruler you put in place of Ferelden and the dwarven kingdom.

So when I reached the ending of Mass Effect I was irritated somewhat. Introducing Hologram kid was an irritation but not the biggest one but rather it was that I wasn't filled in on what happened to the people I'd fought beside.

Bioware spent three games making people care for the characters but at the end pretty much just ignored them and their story arcs.

The Extended Cut helped of course and I am grateful that Bioware took the time to make it. I do still wonder though why it wasn't there when the game was released.

Edit: I do now use the Citadel DLC as post game content. It takes a little head-canon but for me it works.

Modifié par voteDC, 30 septembre 2013 - 07:59 .

[MrMrPendragon]

First of all, thank you very much for your insight on the ending, and the series overall. It's nice that people still talk about ME3.

Big fan of the series. I didn't play ME3 until about a year after the release. By that time I've already heard about the bad ending of ME3 but did not know the details. I already downloaded the extended cut before I started playing ME3.

And so I played ME3 with that thought at the back of my mind. As I progressed through the game I understood the emphasis of "working hard to achieve your goal" - the War Assets and Artifacts, and also the paragon/renegade points.

Suddenly, I realize that I'm feeling a bit of pressure, as if the reapers are actually breathing down on MY neck, not Shepard's, but mine - the player. I feel like "wow, I'm actually in danger for the first time in the series".

SO I went through the whole game doing all the possible quests. Scanning and evading. Scouring every last rock in each map I go to. I was Shepard. It was a role-playing nirvana in a sense - the player and the actual character feeling the same thing. I cared for my crew members and their personal problems, and I even cared more for my romance option (Liara). I made doubly sure that none of them got into any harm.

At the end, I fought through the "linear" level Priority:Earth, saying my final "I love you and goodbye" to my romance option as I insisted she(Liara) go and save herself. I asked the catalyst everything I wanted to ask, and after about 20 minutes of thinking, I eliminated the control option. I found that it went against everything we, the entire galaxy, had planned. Also, I was convinced that there was no "absolute" solution to anything, and that the Reapers will eventually escape my grasp.

So I considered the synthesis and destroy option.

At this point, I thought that there was no way I could walk away from this, you know, go back to my crew, to my best bud Garrus as he and Tali end up together, have one more wine with Dr. Chakwas, see Liara again and live happily ever after, have a funny conversation with Gabby and Kenneth one more time, maybe pull a heist with Kasumi, etc... I knew Shepard wasn't going be able to do any of those.

After about 30 minutes of contemplation I stuck with the original plan - destroy the reapers. The catalyst warned me that eventually there will be war with synthetics and organics, but I was having none of it.

So I actually ended up living through it, but I wasn't satisfied because I wasn't fighting just to survive, I was fighting so I could live to see my crew again. I came to care about those characters and the ending just made all that unimportant. I mean, Shepard said multiple times that he was fighting for the people he cared about, not just for survival.

I didn't get a cutscene where my Shepard reunites with his crew and his romance option. I didn't get closure, but I settled for the ending by simply imagining that all those things did happen. And that's the one thing I really hated - I HAD TO IMAGINE THE GOOD THINGS in order to fully accept it. But I'd like to thank Bioware for making the Extended Cut. I just wish Shepard got to see (at the ending) the other characters we've both learned to care about. Not just imagine it, but actually see.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 30 septembre 2013 - 10:52 .

[Mathias]

The problem from the very beginning is that Bioware had forgotten that Mass Effect was "our" game. And I don't mean "our" as in it belonged to the fans, I mean that the story, the characters, and it's universe belonged to both the developers and the fans. Yes we we didn't code the game, yes we weren't there with them working the ungodly hours it took to craft the game, but we still put something of ourselves in the game. We still poured our time, thought, energy, and love into this story.

Yet the ending was written as if they totally forgot about us.

[Deager]

@ArcherTactlenecks

That's why I did that Citadel Epilogue Mod. I wanted to see the crew together after I lived. And I think that's why they released the Citadel DLC as well. To give that type of closure for people.

The disconnect for me on the high-ems destory ending was seeing a breath of a generic Shep and not mine. To even just have the Shep I used have his or her face shown as he or she gasps for breath in the standard game engine...that would have helped a ton.

[MrMrPendragon]

Deager wrote...

@ArcherTactlenecks

That's why I did that Citadel Epilogue Mod. I wanted to see the crew together after I lived. And I think that's why they released the Citadel DLC as well. To give that type of closure for people.

The disconnect for me on the high-ems destory ending was seeing a breath of a generic Shep and not mine. To even just have the Shep I used have his or her face shown as he or she gasps for breath in the standard game engine...that would have helped a ton.

Even with the mod, you still know deep down that everything is already over. That what happens in the mod, is not counted in the story.

I just take what I can get with the Destroy ending and SETTLE AND IMAGINE.