50 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

Tharja wrote...

Lebdood wrote...



I don't understand why you are singling out DA2 and ME3

At least those games made conversations make sense.

you forgot the i want to do you button when romanced it's the only option left

lol true true

[Indoctrination]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It also increases the localization budget. Depending on the type of conversations, it may increase the animation budget (if CinDesign needs more animations) too. It's a balancing act and hopefully we find a good balance.

Oh, that's a good point. More dialogue, means that the animators have more work to do. This means more work for the people localizing the game in other languages and more work for the QA testers who need to check if the extra dialogue is going to crash the game. So by asking for one thing to be more expensive, I've accidentally made a whole bunch of things more expensive! Oh, dear.

With that said, I still wish there would be a more consistent occurance of companion conversations. In none of BioWare's recent games did I ever feel like my companions were more than observers and occasionally side-line commentators.

For example, you could destroy the sacred ashes in Origins. If you did, Wynn and Leliana might let out a gasp and then lunge at you. There might be a brief whimper of protest, but no real discussion over a major event. I'm not saying that every quest should have a long companion dialogue attached to it, but for the major stuff, I'd like to see a few minutes of arguing and clashing of personalities. Wouldn't it have been nicer if your companions argued pros and cons when a major decision is in your hands? Maybe there would just be consensus if you only brought party members who all felt the same way. Some of the most entertaining dialogue in Origins came about when you just walked around and had party members randomly start sniping at each other. Why not apply this kind of dialogue to the game's major quests too? In my opinion, companions feel the most lifeless when it's like they're completely bound to the player's will, like living puppets. They feel the most alive when they're willing to get annoyed or frustrated because they don't like what they're seeing or hearing.

I know you -think- you can't just wildly exceed your budget, but can you honestly say you've tried? I'll tell you what, I want the team to try going crazy with the company chequebook and if you all lose your jobs, come back here and I'll say I'm sorry.

[Jamie9]

You realise what a budget is, right? It's not designed to be exceeded. If you deliberately go in with the mindset of exceeding your budget, we call that financial suicide.

Name one other game made in the last five years that has more companion dialogue than a BioWare game. It has to be voiced, obviously.

Not forgetting the minor fact that much more than half of it is completely optional.

[Indoctrination]

Jamie9 wrote...

You realise what a budget is, right? It's not designed to be exceeded. If you deliberately go in with the mindset of exceeding your budget, we call that financial suicide. Name one other game made in the last five years that has more companion dialogue than a BioWare game. It has to be voiced, obviously. Not forgetting the minor fact that much more than half of it is completely optional.

http://dictionary.re...rowse/facetious

...Ah! Now you see.

[Thomas Andresen]

Jamie9 wrote...

Name one other game made in the last five years that has more companion dialogue than a BioWare game. It has to be voiced, obviously.

I could name a few select games from this indie game developer. It should be mentioned however, that the quality of both the voice acting and the writing leaves much to be desired, even for a low-budget, indie game.

Modifié par Thomas Andresen, 23 septembre 2013 - 12:05 .

[Deverz]

Hehe, I know what you mean OP. In a perfect world they would be given unlimited reach and be allowed to just go nuts. But at the same time, limitations can actually be a good thing. It makes it easier to focus on what's important, thereby getting dialogue that is actually meaningful.

But I'm always for more dialogue, especially for party members.

[Ryzaki]

As long as I'm not getting Garrus infamous "calibrations" for 80% of the game I'm happy.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

simfamSP wrote...

This is why I prefer ME3 and DA2's approach. Conversations weren't exhausted in the first few hours by us mindless convers-aholics.

This.

[Wulfram]

I always want more companion interaction.

I think it would be cool to have a game that's really just about the companions. Maybe ME2 was sort of like that, but it was diluted by having so many. But if you have a limited cast of companions and really built the plot around those people and their relationships with player and each other, rather than them being ancillary to the various quests and side quests, I think you could do something pretty cool.

[Indoctrination]

Ryzaki wrote...

As long as I'm not getting Garrus infamous "calibrations" for 80% of the game I'm happy.

That's probably the most infamous example. Garrus has how many conversations in Mass Effect 2? Three, perhaps? One after you recruit him, one where he talks about his loyalty mission, and one last one after the loyalty mission? Does that sound about right? Then that's it. He goes off the air for the rest of the game. If Garrus is that one character you really cared about (and he was for a lot of people) this was really disappointing for you, right? Mass Effect 3 was a step toward the right direction because party members in that game often did have comments on recent plot events.

[Thomas Andresen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am quite sure that the writers considered both the recruitment missions and the loyalty missions as part of the same bulk of content as conversations are. I know Gaider has mentioned specifically that his team did as much in Dragon Age 2, and I'd expect the writing team on the Mass Effect games to have done the same.

I know I'd rather my character's companions have more individuality and personality(ME2, DA2, ME3), and be less of a walking set of encyclopaedias(ME, DAO).

[Examurai]

Vapaä wrote...

Lebdood wrote...
I don't understand why you are singling out DA2 and ME3

At least those games made conversations make sense.

becuseitwasbetterintheolddays.jpg

Or should we talk about ME1 Tali, the quarian encyclopedia, whose only character developpement is finding sleep because of the silence in the ship

Lol I remember this. One of the things I dreaded whenever I started playing ME1 again. 

Liara was the same thing as well.

[Ryzaki]

Indoctrination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

As long as I'm not getting Garrus infamous "calibrations" for 80% of the game I'm happy.

That's probably the most infamous example. Garrus has how many conversations in Mass Effect 2? Three, perhaps? One after you recruit him, one where he talks about his loyalty mission, and one last one after the loyalty mission? Does that sound about right? Then that's it. He goes off the air for the rest of the game. If Garrus is that one character you really cared about (and he was for a lot of people) this was really disappointing for you, right? Mass Effect 3 was a step toward the right direction because party members in that game often did have comments on recent plot events.

Yeah it was saddening.

As for the it includes his loyalty and recruitment...you recruited Garrus and he had a side quest in ME1 as well (not to mention DAO characters also had recruitments and personal quests).

Edit: To be fair to Liara you could recruit her right before the end of the game. That said yeah she didn't have much dialogue either.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 septembre 2013 - 01:55 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

"Writers, please exceed your athority and budget, and get fired!"

...

[David7204]

A budget is a budget.

There is no magic hole to pull money and time out of. You have what you have.

By the way, given Garrus' absolute massive increase in popularity from ME 2, calling his dialogue a 'dissapointment' and acting as if he was somehow neglected is rather ridiculous, isn't it? That popularity increase wouldn't have happened if his dialogue wasn't effective.

Modifié par David7204, 23 septembre 2013 - 08:35 .

[Eterna]

Indoctrination wrote...
Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 were good examples of this, I think.

What are you talking about? ME3 incorporated the squadmates really well into the course of the main plot. DA2 less so, but many still had more than just talking to them in their houses a few times. 

[Clertar]

It was worse in DA:O, if you were too greedy with companion conversations early on you'd pretty much run out of them. At least in DA2 they were spread out in a more balanced way.

[phunx]

DA:O and DA:2 supposedly had the same amount of voice acting. The problem was half of it went to Hawke, so I felt like I got half amount of dialoge compared to what I got in DA:O.

[Lotion Soronarr]

David7204 wrote...
By the way, given Garrus' absolute massive increase in popularity from ME 2, calling his dialogue a 'dissapointment' and acting as if he was somehow neglected is rather ridiculous, isn't it? That popularity increase wouldn't have happened if his dialogue wasn't effective.

Not necessarily. Popularity is a strange thing that is not directly connected to quility or anything toehr than resonating with someone on some level.

Ever heard of TouHou?
It's an arcady bullet-hell shooter with loli witches instead of airplanes. It has no plor or characterization whatsoever. Yet is has rabbid fanbase as obsessed as the biggest Star Wars, Star Trek or MLP geeks.

Good dialogue? Absolutely unnecesarry..

[Ieldra]

@OP:
In my opinion, the story is paramount. Any conversations that affect the story, whether with a companion or anyone else, should have priority. I like speaking with my companions as much as anyone else, but I don't want a Bioware game to become a soap opera where everything is about the personal problems of companions and the main plot takes second place like in ME2. A companion with little to contribute to the bigger story except "I'll fight with you" has no business having a big word budget.

Also, conversation spacing is a non-trivial issue. Do it like in DAO, and people like me will exhaust all the possibilities in the first half of the game. Make it like in DA2, and you feel too railroaded as every time something new is available from a compantion, you get a new quest entry. Make it like in ME3, and you'll end up walking the ship after every mission to see if people have something new to say. 

[Sanunes]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Name one other game made in the last five years that has more companion dialogue than a BioWare game. It has to be voiced, obviously.

I could name a few select games from this indie game developer. It should be mentioned however, that the quality of both the voice acting and the writing leaves much to be desired, even for a low-budget, indie game.

I think that is a good example, for yes they have more voice dialogue. Would the OP be happy if the voice acting was more plentiful, but at that level of quality? Personally I rather have less dialogue, but at a better quality.

[Estelindis]

I'd love to have oodles more conversations with companions than I know we'd ever get, but then again I'd be happy with plenty of it being unvoiced, as in the Infinity Engine games and Neverwinter Nights.  I think that approach allows for a lot more lines (in writing-heavy games, of course, not in hack-n-slash types like Icewind Dale).  I'm hoping to get my fix of writing-heavy, voice-light gaming from Project Eternity and Tides of Numenera.   Bioware isn't making that kind of game anymore and I accept that.   I'm still happy to play the fully-voiced stuff that Bioware's producing, even though I'll still have the occasional grumble that a particular favourite topic or character didn't get more conversational attention.

Modifié par Estelindis, 23 septembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[Ryzaki]

Sanunes wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Name one other game made in the last five years that has more companion dialogue than a BioWare game. It has to be voiced, obviously.

I could name a few select games from this indie game developer. It should be mentioned however, that the quality of both the voice acting and the writing leaves much to be desired, even for a low-budget, indie game.

I think that is a good example, for yes they have more voice dialogue. Would the OP be happy if the voice acting was more plentiful, but at that level of quality? Personally I rather have less dialogue, but at a better quality.

Winterwolves dialogue is mostly silent from what I've played (Planet Stronghold, Loren, Spirited Heart). Thus why they can have so much more dialogue. Same with BG and BG2 compared to ME3.

It's easy to have hordes of dialogue when it's all text.

[Plaintiff]

No thanks. I'd rather have conversations be succinct and closer to how conversations work in real life, rather than an absurd series of monologues where all I get to say is 'Tell me MORE about x'.

Ideally, game dialogue would work like movie dialogue. Short sentences, straight to the point, with monologues used sparingly if at all.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 septembre 2013 - 05:23 .