131 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

Lore by whatever definition you pick is not immutable. If the creators of said lore can create it they can change it making new lore. The creators say that mages cannot teleport or dwarves cannot be mages, but now because of rift in the Fade the established lore is turned on its head. Mages can teleport and dwarves may have magic ability (in this example). The creators of lore have now given an in-game explanation for changing the lore.

So as long as the creators of the world give an in game reason that contradicts established lore that would be permissible?

If so I am waiting for the lore reason why a party can go across the continent and never seem to run out of supplies. Or how warriors are able to wear plate armor in deserts without collapsing from heat exhaustion. Or how a companion or PC can sneak into a room full of mabari (which are magically bred and highly intelligent) and remain undetected. I can only assume that it is an abstraction for gameplay purposes therefore segregated from the actual lore of the world.

So certain lore/gameplay segregation is okay, but other gameplay/lore segregation is not. I think I would have to agree with StM that there should be no lore/gameplay segregation because many posters on this forum tend to draw arbitrary lines in the sand which are mostly dependent on their own preferences.

[Eterna]

Ieolus wrote...

Get fired up wrote...

Hard to say. I'm usually the sort who easily gets disturbed when lore gets shoved under the rug to make way for fancy gameplay, but if there is a reason as to why this is possible within the lore, and it doesn't feel forced as hell, I'm generally okay with it. A good example is teleporting in the DA universe - in DA2 it was a glaring plothole which made me twitch every time I saw it, but in DA:I we have an explanation as to why it suddenly works in DA:I which doesn't contradict the established lore as far as I know at least (note that it still doesn't explain why it worked in DA2 though!), which makes me feel okay about teleporting in DA:I.

I missed that.  What is the lore explanation for while teleporting works in DA:I?

It isn't teleporting, it is moving incredibly fast via magic. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I hear the terms necessary abstraction and abstraction for coolness. Who determines what is necessary abstraction and what is abstraction for the sake of coolness?

What determines if it's necessary? Easy...remove it and see how the game plays.

Change the feats/powers animations and what changes? Nothing really.

Implement 1-hit-ko's and try playing that. Enjoy the ragequit.

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

Any game - any - will forever have an "HP" system in the sense that there has to be a numerical representation for damage because that's how computers work. But how the current HP system works - the entirely arbitrary damage pool of "no difference between being hurt" and "dead" at the 0 HP threshold - isn't functional anymore with the level of visual fidelity that we've reached. 

The original system where the abstraction took place - literally a physical game with miniatures - doesn't work for a video game.

That's why injuries are for.
You can think of HP as "how much blood you have before you bleed out".

I personally deslike massive HP bars and I dislike incoherent bosses with super-bloated HP's even less.
A Dragon with 10000 HP? Ok..it's huge, scaly..it's a dragon. Your weapons wont' be hurting it much.
An old geezer in leather armor with 10000 HP? Hell no. I don't want to be bashing him on the uprotected head with a GREATAXE for hours before he drops. I dont' care if he's a boss - he's human. So do it like BG did.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

That's why injuries are for.
You can think of HP as "how much blood you have before you bleed out".

I personally deslike massive HP bars and I dislike incoherent bosses with super-bloated HP's even less.
A Dragon with 10000 HP? Ok..it's huge, scaly..it's a dragon. Your weapons wont' be hurting it much.
An old geezer in leather armor with 10000 HP? Hell no. I don't want to be bashing him on the uprotected head with a GREATAXE for hours before he drops. I dont' care if he's a boss - he's human. So do it like BG did.

You're making me miss GURPS.

I loved that HP system.

[Realmzmaster]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I hear the terms necessary abstraction and abstraction for coolness. Who determines what is necessary abstraction and what is abstraction for the sake of coolness?

What determines if it's necessary? Easy...remove it and see how the game plays.

Change the feats/powers animations and what changes? Nothing really.

Implement 1-hit-ko's and try playing that. Enjoy the ragequit.

Actually in some of the games I play one hit KO's (especially if the PC tries to retreat unsuccessfully; in Wizardry the Samurai and Ninja have the instant one hit kill ability) exist as well as amputations, crippled limbs, having to heal over months, very low  to no magic, stravation, disease, poison, heat exhaustion, must craft or buy arrows (no unlimited ammo), weapons and armor break (PC can learn repair ability), food and water must be consumed. The PC has to rest otherwise abilities are affected.  Non-regenerating health and mana.
Inventory managment was necessary due to weight restrictions.

If the PC rested while poisoned or diseased the PC would die. The PC could get lost in a maze of secret doors within castle walls and die of stravation while searching for a way out. The character's attributes would slowly or quickly decrease due to disease, poision of lack of food and/or water.

Animations are not that big of a deal to me. The crpgs are removed from what I use to enjoy in a crpg

So no ragequit on my part. Games like that I simply say Bring them on! I grew up playing those types of crpgs which is why I like the hard mode in Fallout: New Vegas and older games like Alternate Reality: City and Dungeon.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 24 septembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Han Shot First]

I'm okay with some lore and gameplay segregation, but only in areas where a strict adherence to the lore would severely hamper gameplay and/or make the game frustratingly difficult. An example of this would be biotics getting fatigued from using their powers in the lore to Mass Effect. This happens in the books and in a couple cutscenes, but is not a limitation placed on Shepard (if biotic) and biotic party members during gameplay.

It is a fine line though and is certainly something the devs should be careful not to go overboard with.

As long as it's not jarring, it's okay