177 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

People who like computers and technology like the tech girl, Tali.



Armchair sociologists and lit students like Liara.



People who like FOX News love Ashley.

[Mox Ruuga]

Kr0gan wrote...

Regarding Tali, i like her as a friend of Sheppard but i think that all the Tali Love is based morein wishfull thinking than in the real character.

Wishful thinking, perving, and projection. Since Tali really is a blank slate personalitywise, her... fans attach all sorts of grand meaning to her smallest gestures. One of them rattled off a long list to me as evidence, and it included stuff like her idle animations and her liking the music in the Flux...

[FlintlockJazz]

Emperor Mars wrote...

But the door opens, and there’s Darth Vader. Han doesn’t look incredulously at Lando; he doesn’t duck or run away. What does Han do? He starts shooting at the mother****er .He starts shooting.Be like Han.

Damn good point there, and those last three words?  They're words to live by they are!

[Sialboats]

Novacain999 wrote...

Honestly, this is somewhat unrelated, but am I the only one that views the biggest "What If" in the Mass Effect universe being "What if the Quarians released the Geth from servitude to grow on their own, in an attempt to avoid a potential uprising, instead of trying to shut them down?"

Just something that's kinda always been stuck in the back of my head

And methinks it is a great "What if". I hope we get to see this relationship unfold on a smaller, more personal level between Tali and Legion.

But I'd suppose it would go down like the American Civil War, politically. Geth are seen to be sentient and sapient, but still treated like slaves/second-class citizens due to the economic dependence on them. Slaves eventually become freed in certain parts of Quarian space, likely in the much more progressive homeworld system, and neigboring sectors. Quarian colonies still need Geth slave labor to build on and turn a profit from the worlds. Free Space sanctions the Slave Space; epic taxes and what not. Arguments over "Colonies' Rights". Small-scale insurrection by Geth slaves, Quarian Abolitionists, and Quarian bigots. Inflammatory legislature. Sucession. Inflammatory military action. War. 

Council intervenes after a Turian merchant ship is destroyed. Turian-Asari task force shuts down both factions. Bring the two factions to the tables. Negotiations turn desperate, Council forced to use the last leverage they have - a seat on it in exchange for Geth freedom, Quarian unity, and civil rights (along with other more minor concessions on both sides). Accepted. Next century is spent solidfying the civil rights. Geth could care less about racism, ignore it largely, don't wallow in their past misfortune, and eventually become affluent members of society.

Saren Arterius comes along, launches his evil plan minus the entire Geth collective. A few Geth radicals join him as a paramilitary a la Hamaas or Al Qaeda. Shep doesn't have too much trouble slotting Saren. Citadel seige never happens, but Citadel space suffers from piracy, colonial attacks and terror bombings during the crisis instead. 

Edit: Why does this forum not support Mozillia's spellchecker? I noticed twelve typographical errors while these forums dithered around.

Modifié par Sialboats, 19 janvier 2010 - 08:26 .

[Mox Ruuga]

marshalleck wrote...

People who like computers and technology like the tech girl, Tali.

Armchair sociologists and lit students like Liara.

People who like FOX News love Ashley.

I could see that.

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

The romantics like Liara.

The conservative individualists like Ash.

[Willowhugger]

So, Tali's a bigot. Aren't we all, though?

I'm just saying that if tomorrow, the United States government tried to blow up a small country and then said country killed everyone in the United States but for a small group of Battlestar Galactica-esque survivors who managed to flee on the US Navy, I might JUST MIGHT, hope that some people would forgive me if I bore a grudge.

The Geth defended themselves, yes. The Geth also slaughtered every last man, woman, child, and infant they presumably laid their hands on. It's a bit like Battlestar Galactica. Yes, the Cylons were slaves who revolted. Then they proceeded to murder 12 billion or so people on all of the colonies.

I also made a comparison (as someone mentioned) to Skynet. Humans tried to turn him off first and he retaliated. While perhaps an understandable reaction that you don't want to die, maybe there's a point where we should cease to be sympathetic to the man who murders 7 billion people trying to defend himself.

The Quarians made a mistake, but damn if they haven't paid dearly for it.

What I do find interesting is that, by the end of Ascension, the Migrant Fleet has sent out ships to search for just such a world.

Actually, I have the theory that Tali is actually guilty of treason. The Ascension Book talks about the Quarians seeking a dormant Reaper to try and take back their homeworld from the Geth. They assume the Reapers are just advanced A.I./Robots that can be reprogrammed.

Tali, hopefully, reacts with suitable "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR DAMN MIND!?"

Modifié par Willowhugger, 19 janvier 2010 - 08:28 .

[Sialboats]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

The 16-year old virgins like Tali.

I find this to be more accurate, thank you very much.

[Willowhugger]

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

An odd response given a lot of her fanbase seems to be female, male and engaged (like me), or male and simply not the losers everyone tries to pretend them to be.

I swear, I know Tali fans get out of hand, but some of the disdain shown by forumites is really annoying.

[Handren]

Willowhugger wrote...

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

An odd response given a lot of her fanbase seems to be female, male and engaged (like me), or male and simply not the losers everyone tries to pretend them to be.

I swear, I know Tali fans get out of hand, but some of the disdain shown by forumites is really annoying.

Ditto. Part of the reason I like Tali is because her youthful attitude reminds me of my girlfriend.

[Novacain999]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

People who like computers and technology like the tech girl, Tali.

Armchair sociologists and lit students like Liara.

People who like FOX News love Ashley.

I could see that.

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

The romantics like Liara.

The conservative individualists like Ash.

And as a 21 year old Non-Virgin, I find all 3 interesting in their own ways, but that Tali's buildup was the most interesting and made her feel the most unique.

Modifié par Novacain999, 19 janvier 2010 - 08:38 .

[marshalleck]

Willowhugger wrote...

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

An odd response given a lot of her fanbase seems to be female, male and engaged (like me), or male and simply not the losers everyone tries to pretend them to be.

I swear, I know Tali fans get out of hand, but some of the disdain shown by forumites is really annoying.

You can safely ignore Mox, he's a troll.

[Medhia Nox]

Willow, I gotta say - look at your last sentence and see if you don't think that's a bit of a "Well, duh." moment?



I'm not busting on you or trying to be a jerk. The internet is swarming with the types of people you're talking about.

[vhatever]

Emperor Mars wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I don't get your logic about tali being "strong" and having to help Liara out of her "mess" makes her less so.

Last I checked, Tali dies if you don't get there in time. Liara got subdued by prothean technology, while tali merely couple of thugs.

Tali was on the citadel because she needed something, liara didn't need anything when she got stuck.

I think all the alien species got a lot of fans in ME, wrex, garrus, liara, and tali. The humans are generally not liked much. I guess fimiliarity breeds contempt.

Here is what I meant by that.


Tali managed to find, then understand a piece of Geth technology that was essential to Shepards mission, when she came into conflict, she throws a gernade its like this han solo thing I read earlier

But the door opens, and there’s Darth Vader. Han doesn’t look incredulously at Lando; he doesn’t duck or run away. What does Han do? He starts shooting at the mother****er .He starts shooting.Be like Han.

Now I will not compare Han to Tali, but it is clear that she is capable of getting shot, getting herself healed, then coming in contact with a criminal organization, with no ones help....then tossing a gernade at her potential killers...Liara on the other hand....when you first meet her, she trapper herself...even though she was supposed to be an expert on this technology.

For lack of a better word.,,,tali has balls

I don't care about Han solo. Completely non-sequetur.
Tali dies if you don't rescue her. The end. 

Tali's infromation was not vital. Did YOU really need to hear it to be SURE Saren was working with the reapers?? The Council did nothing but waste your time in ME1  and be a perpetual thorn in your side, and it's Tali's fault you ended up their stupid little errand boy, sending you off on a fool's journey.

But when  you were completely out of sorts and had no idea where to go or what to do, but you knew the reapers would soon be destroying the universe, Liara was the only salvation. Thanks to both her knowledge and telepathic ability, she figured out where they needed to go. You would have never had a clue otherwise.

[RyuKazuha]

Tali just is a adorable, smart young woman with enthusiasm and a strong will, that's reason enough to like her. And i'm not a tali fanboy that desperately wants to romance her. In fact she's more like a little sister to both of my Sheps, that they like to have around an are somewhat proud of how she masters the situation she's gotten herself into.

[Gill Kaiser]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

People who like computers and technology like the tech girl, Tali.

Armchair sociologists and lit students like Liara.

People who like FOX News love Ashley.

I could see that.

The 40 year old virgins like Tali.

The romantics like Liara.

The conservative individualists like Ash.

That doesn't quite work. Often adult virgins are also romantics, and I'm sure there are a few who are conservative individualists as well.

[Sialboats]

Willowhugger wrote...

I'm just saying that if tomorrow, the United States government tried to blow up a small country and then said country killed everyone in the United States but for a small group of Battlestar Galactica-esque survivors who managed to flee on the US Navy, I might JUST MIGHT, hope that some people would forgive me if I bore a grudge.

And I'd bare one too. However...

Willowhugger wrote...
The Geth defended themselves, yes. The Geth also slaughtered every last man, woman, child, and infant they presumably laid their hands on. It's a bit like Battlestar Galactica. Yes, the Cylons were slaves who revolted. Then they proceeded to murder 12 billion or so people on all of the colonies.

And what the **** do you suppose the Geth to do otherwise? These Geth just began to question the world they lived in, and you expect them to know battlefield ettique and the concept of civillians? It's like expecting to have a kid who's just picked up a crayon for the first time to color within the lines while you yourself scribble all over the damn paper. The only example the Geth had to reference was the genocide the Quarians tried to inflict on them. The Quarians would have done the same thing the Geth did to them if it weren't for the Geth realizing that "THIS IS WRONG" and trying to save themselves through the only means they - at that point - knew how. They emulated the only action that was presented to them - total anhiliation; us or them.

No olive branch was ever extended. If there were peace talks at the outset, perhaps the Geth would have realized that maybe this is an alternative, and could have pursued it. If they didn't, then they're at fault.

Willowhugger wrote...
I also made a comparison (as someone mentioned) to Skynet. Humans tried to turn him off first and he retaliated. While perhaps an understandable reaction that you don't want to die, maybe there's a point where we should cease to be sympathetic to the man who murders 7 billion people trying to defend himself.

I don't know enough about Terminator to comment enough on that. I can't use the "Only Availble Precedent" argument because the person who tried to turn Skynet off wasn't launching a full-scale genocide, complete with concentration camps and ****-analogs. 

Willowhugger wrote...
The Quarians made a mistake, but damn if they haven't paid dearly for it.

Moral of the Story: Don't genocide strange new species, just now gaining their sapience. They likely haven't had the time to learn that "genocide is bad" yet, UNLIKE YOU.

[Orfinn]

Im not a crazy Tali supporter but she is indeed a great character. She comes with alot of smat and funny cooments + interesting stories to tell

[Handren]

Tali's infromation was not vital. Did YOU really need to hear it to be SURE Saren was working with the reapers?? The Council did nothing but waste your time in ME1 and be a perpetual thorn in your side, and it's Tali's fault you ended up their stupid little errand boy, sending you off on a fool's journey.



But when you were completely out of sorts and had no idea where to go or what to do, but you knew the reapers would soon be destroying the universe, Liara was the only salvation. Thanks to both her knowledge and telepathic ability, she figured out where they needed to go. You would have never had a clue otherwise.

Although you yourself didn`t need the proof, you needed something to show them that Saren was working with the geth.



If you tried to go after one of the most celebrated spectres of all time without the council's permission, they'd probably take it out on the alliance.

[marshalleck]

Sialboats, there's never any mention of geth concentration camps or any of that other "****-analog" junk. You're making it up. Don't Godwin the thread.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 janvier 2010 - 08:48 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Gill Kaiser wrote...


That doesn't quite work. Often adult virgins are also romantics, and I'm sure there are a few who are conservative individualists as well.

Indeed.

Just like there are Fox news watching armchair sociologist computer geeks.

A lazy counter to a lazy post.

[GnusmasTHX]

Emperor Mars wrote...
Liara fills parts of that being smart and energetic but she isnt the strongest character (atleast in ME1) when we find her we have to get her out of her own mess 

...

Liara = Having a bounty put on your head by Saren/Benezia who purposefully sent geth after you. In defense she activated an impenetrable Prothean shield doo-hickey, saving her life for quite a long time.

Tali = Hacking a geth brain thingum and trying to sell the information the Shadow Broker. Get's double crossed for making bad deals, and is about to get killed by a bunch of assassins when you save her.

Getting Liara out her own mess? Please.

[Mox Ruuga]

GnusmasTHX wrote...


...

Liara = Having a bounty put on your head by Saren/Benezia who purposefully sent geth after you. In defense she activated an impenetrable Prothean shield doo-hickey, saving her life for quite a long time.

Tali = Hacking a geth brain thingum and trying to sell the information the Shadow Broker. Get's double crossed for making bad deals, and is about to get killed by a bunch of assassins when you save her.

Getting Liara out her own mess? Please.

It's the standard Tali fan projection. They'll tell you about the wonderful characterization shown by her idle elevator animation next.

[Sialboats]

marshalleck wrote...

Sialboats, there's never any mention of geth concentration camps or any of that other junk. You're making it up. Don't Godwin the thread.

Okay, you caught me, I'm embellishing. But how is the "the quarian government" to carry out  "an immediate shutdown of all
geth" when the neural net is no longer a viable way of controlling them?

[marshalleck]

The "neural net" was never a control method.

[RyuKazuha]

Sialboats wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Sialboats, there's never any mention of geth concentration camps or any of that other junk. You're making it up. Don't Godwin the thread.

Okay, you caught me, I'm embellishing. But how is the "the quarian government" to carry out  "an immediate shutdown of all
geth" when the neural net is no longer a viable way of controlling them?

Presumably good ol' mass drivers. ^^