33 réponses à ce sujet

[JPCamden]

Hey guys, I'm making an archer. Or I plan to anyway. I've talked to dkjsetrup (Sorry if I spelled it wrong.) and they told me some stuff. Basically I'd be going from their build in Handbook topic. What I want to know is if someone else has tried this build and succeeded. I don't want to make an archer and then end up having them suck. I'm just looking for other peoples' stories. DK told me they made one and that they were fine. I made a DW Warrior and he's pretty good. Still takes a lot of damage, but he deals a lot of damage as well. But I think archers are more fun.

Anyway, looking forward to your input.
Oh yeah, I'm on 360. That's why I'm asking since I was told CUN archer was better than DEX archer.
Thanks guys!

[JosieJ]

I'm assuming this is the build you mean:

2) Archery Rogue

Many consider the Archery Rogue to be one of the best damage classes in the game. They are also great for solo's. Most people don't understand that Solo playthroughs are all about utility, rather than damage, or stats. Backstabber Rogues/Dual Wield Warriors may be great at doing damage, but an Archer has the utility to shine in solo play. The Archery Rogue has two great skills, Shattering Shot, which stuns the target and all nearby enemies. And Arrow Of Slaying, which does extremely high damage, OHKOing most weak targets, especially useful for killing enemy mages. My personal suggestion with the Archery Rogue is to focus solely on combat until you have maxed most of the archery line and got Lethality. Otherwise, you may become one of many complaining about how Archers are underpowered.

There are two main types, once again. Dex or Cunning. Dex is better, damage wise, attack wise, and defense wise. But Cunning is the only choice on consoles. Cunning also has better Bard Songs, which will help your entire party.

Talents

Basically, either go for Shattering Shot, or Arrow of Slaying, straight off the bat. To do this, you will need to pump dex for your early levels. Basically, I'd go for Arrow of Slaying early, if you're playing in a party, or Shattering Shot for a solo game. You will want both of them in time. If you're going Cunning, you should also get Lethality ASAP, or you will suck.

Specializations

Archers will have a poor hit-rate, particularly if you're playing a cunning build. You will want to rectify this. You can either go with Duelist or Bard. Bard is nice, for Song of Courage, increasing your damage as well as your attack. Duelist gives you the Dueling Stance which boosts your attack, and Pinpoint Striking, which AFAIK can only be activated with a melee weapon. So you can switch to your dagger, activate it, then back to your bow. I recommend Bard, for Cun rogues, but it's your choice. You should definitely go Ranger for your second spec. No spec will give you more DPS than a pet, and your hit rate will already be taken care of.

Gear

Gear-wise, archer's are not dissimilar to backstabbers. You will get plenty of crits, through Critical shot, which has a low stamina cost, and a fast cooldown.

Helm of Honleath
Felons Coat
Red Jenny's Seekers
Silverhammer tackmasters/Bards Dancing Shoes/Cadash Stompers
Harvest Festival Ring
Dusk Ring
Far Song (if Cunning) Whitewood Bow (if Dex)
Adruils Blessing
Spellward (for the Willpower boost)

Stats

15 strength (for top tier light armor)
30 dex (if cunning) max dex (if dex)
base wil
base con
mase mag
max cun (if Cunning) 30 cun (if Dex)

If so, my last archer PC was similar and worked out fine, except I didn't go for Ranger as my second spec (Bard was my first), but Duelist.

DEX is broken on the X360, so I'd definitely recommend a CUN rogue for you.

[JPCamden]

Well the person who made that post said that they increased their dex and their bow damage did go up. But I don't know what the problem with dex is on the 360 so I don't even know if that's it.
I wanna go ranger for the extra character. Instead of using a character spot up for the Dog, I'll just use one of the pets and get Overwhelm that way. But I don't wanna do ****ty damage.
I just got done reading this thread:
http://social.biowar.../index/484634/1
And some guy said something about his level 20 archer sucking cause it's buggy on the 360. I don't want to start this character and get my ass kicked. Where do you get the Bard specialist? And what level can you actually do it?
Oh I re-read my message and they said go duelist, not Bard. What's duelist do for you? And that's the chick in uh.. Lothering? Or is it Denerim? I remember seeing her on my Warrior.

Modifié par JPCamden, 19 janvier 2010 - 07:22 .

[JPCamden]

Crap, I meant to make this in the Build forum. Can I move it or should I just re-post it? Or did I make it in the build forum and a mod moved it? Ugh... I have no idea what's going on. I should pay more attention.

[swk3000]

We can help you out here. That's not a problem.

First, I wouldn't bother with Song of Courage. You need a Cunning Score of 85 to get a straight +10 Attack. That won't happen until very, very late in the game. I'm talking roughly 'I'm at the door to go out and face the Archdemon' late. As for Song of Valor, a basic 30 Cunning only gives +0.7 Stamina Regen. A Cunning score of 85 will provide a total of +1.25 Stamina Regen, which is nice, but again, it won't happen until late, late game. The only reason to take Bard would be for the +1 Cunning you get just for being a Bard.

I'd take Duelist as the Primary Spec, as the abilities provided by Dueling (+10 Attack, and +10 Defense once you have Keen Defense)  are very solid. I wouldn't be abusing Pinpoint Strike; it's a useful skill, but to me, swapping to a melee weapon to activate it just takes too much time. Still, if you want to, you can do that.

As for secondary, it's up to you. Ranger provides an extra party member, and can be very useful, but if you don't really like it, then you can go with Bard and simply not take any of the Talents. It's up to you.

Talent-wise, I can't really offer too much advice. Sorry.

[JPCamden]

Thanks, that's what someone else told me too. They said don't bother with Bard because it's too late.
I made him but my girlfriend wants to play so I guess I'll have to wait, ugh.

So 30 dex, then the rest into CUN right? Oh and like.. 15 base str? Then the fade will add another 4 or 5 to that? Thanks.

Modifié par JPCamden, 19 janvier 2010 - 10:01 .

[lessthanjake9]

If you have the xbox version, then you are best off using longbows, first off. Secondly, I think you should consider rolling a rogue that doesnt pump up cunning. Focus on dexterity entirely as it will increase attack, damage, and defense. You will be extremely hard to hit, and your arrows will hit a lot more than a cunning rogue. Get strength up to 20 for equipment. Don't go Bard because your cunning will be low. Go Duelist/Ranger instead. Ranger pets are less useful on xbox since you cant control them, but they are still good. This is IMO the best way to make a powerful archer on the xbox. You will have crazy defense, and not have the massive problems that cunning archers have hitting targets.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 19 janvier 2010 - 11:09 .

[swk3000]

Dex and Cunning builds have their own strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the utility of the Cunning build, while lessthanjake obviously prefers the battle strength of the Dex build. A few things:



Dex builds tend to be better in combat. They're more accurate, much harder to hit, and since they only have to focus on a single stat, they'll tend to do more damage.



Cunning builds sacrifice combat ability for the ability to tool-box. In other words, they aren't focused only on combat. The Cunning rogue wants to be able to disarm traps, pass Persuade checks, and open locked chests, and is willing to give up survivability and such to do this.



Each has it's strengths and weaknesses, and which you prefer is up to you.



Also, your question about Strength: don't bother putting any points into it. A Human Rogue starts off with 11 Strength, and can get to 21 Strength without putting any points into it. Part of it is the Fade bonuses, but the rest of it comes from Strength-boosting equipment like the Key to the City, the Harvest Festival Ring, and the Helm of Honnleath. Take those three items, then do the Broken Circle,and by the time you're done, you'll be able to equip the Helm not long before you face off against the Sloth Demon.

[mosspit]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

If you have the xbox version, then you are best off using longbows, first off. Secondly, I think you should consider rolling a rogue that doesnt pump up cunning. Focus on dexterity entirely as it will increase attack, damage, and defense. You will be extremely hard to hit, and your arrows will hit a lot more than a cunning rogue. Get strength up to 20 for equipment. Don't go Bard because your cunning will be low. Go Duelist/Ranger instead. Ranger pets are less useful on xbox since you cant control them, but they are still good. This is IMO the best way to make a powerful archer on the xbox. You will have crazy defense, and not have the massive problems that cunning archers have hitting targets.

Your advise that dex increase dmg (I assume is dmg per hit) is in contradiction with the dex bug discussed in gaming forums.
Dun get me wrong, dex IS impt as it is requirement for archery talents (30 for AoS) and top tier bows (34). Even a cun/str archer will need dex. However, beyond that I do not see the point with pumping dex. For accuracy, 30+ dex as a base is sufficient. Otherwise, make up the difference with talents. (eg. dueling adds to range as well iirc.)
Even though, dex helps with def. A ranged has less surviviability issues than a melee char. Aggro problems can be resolved with Combat/master stealth.
I agree with your build can be used. I do not agree that it is the best in the context of advising other AND NOT changing your opinion.

[tetracycloide]

The thing about Song of Courage is that it also adds ranged critical chance which is doubled by Aim. So even mid game it's a pretty significant DPS boost with both active and master archer. There are plenty of attack increasing items early in the game, including a truly staggering number of possible attack buffs or defense debuffs, but not nearly as many items that increase crit. Furthermore what other specialization is an archer going to take? Assassin is poor, duelist is good but you do get two specializations, and ranger has the XP bug.

Cunning builds are combat kings, eventually, and song of courage at 100+ cunning (easily doable by end game) is a massive, party-wide boon. Dexterity builds sacrifice late game damage and utility for early game damage and survivability. For a party based archer with other physical DPS cunning builds will offer more damage and utility at every level. Dexterity is for tanks and solo builds.

RE: Point in Strength. A human rogue can get to 31 or more strength with items alone fairly easily further reinforcing the point that no points should ever be added to strength.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 19 janvier 2010 - 11:56 .

[JPCamden]

Well dksetrup (SP?) said that when they increased dex, bow damage did go up. So maybe it's not as buggy as we think?

Also, I was told not to go Bard because by the time I get enough skill points to get Song of Courage, I'm at the end of the game. I was told it'd be better to go Duelist/Ranger.



A dex rogue does sound fun though, just doing a crapload of damage and not getting hit for much. But if I have a good team, I might not have to do that. I dunno, too many options.

[mosspit]

tetracycloide wrote...

Cunning builds are combat kings, eventually, and song of courage at 100+ cunning (easily doable by end game) is a massive, party-wide boon. Dexterity builds sacrifice late game damage and utility for early game damage and survivability. For a party based archer with other physical DPS cunning builds will offer more damage and utility at every level. Dexterity is for tanks and solo builds..

Lol your "ease" of getting 100 is pretty relative. The early game of my 100+ dw elven cun rogue is so pathetic, it is ROFL.

[mosspit]

JPCamden wrote...

Well dksetrup (SP?) said that when they increased dex, bow damage did go up. So maybe it's not as buggy as we think?
Also, I was told not to go Bard because by the time I get enough skill points to get Song of Courage, I'm at the end of the game. I was told it'd be better to go Duelist/Ranger.

A dex rogue does sound fun though, just doing a crapload of damage and not getting hit for much. But if I have a good team, I might not have to do that. I dunno, too many options.

If that is true for console version. Then it is obvious im wrong.

[JPCamden]

I haven't tested it so I don't know. They said they were 99% sure that dex did make the damage go up. I guess I could test it. Wouldn't be hard, I'll do it the next time I level up.

I just want to know if a CUN rogue will be that much crappier than a DEX rogue? That is, if a dex rogue would even be any good on the 360.

[SuperMedbh]

How about for us PC sorts? I'm planning on rerunning my first character, a city elf rogue. I tried to do too much with her (DW and archery), so second time around, I think I'll focus on the archery. For RP reasons, Bard and Ranger fit into my concept of her.



So....cunning focused? I rely on persuade a lot, and I want to get maximum utility out of my non-combat skills such as sensing traps and picking locks.

[tetracycloide]

mosspit wrote...
Lol your "ease" of getting 100 is pretty relative. The early game of my 100+ dw elven cun rogue is so pathetic, it is ROFL.

I said it was easy to have that much cunning by end game after gear, not that it was easy to get to end game as a cunning stacker.  However, I would say that it's very easy to do so with properly built party members backing them up.  Morrigan with glyph of repulsion and Alistair with taunt makes everything up to Lothring a cakewalk and after that the circle is easy pickings for pretty much any character as well.  What is it that gave you trouble?

[JPCamden]

SuperMedbh wrote...

So....cunning focused? I rely on persuade a lot, and I want to get maximum utility out of my non-combat skills such as sensing traps and picking locks.

Yeah as far as I've read, dex builds are for the ones who want to do the most damage, and have the best defense. If you want to be a utility rogue, then apparently CUN is the way to go. I've been told a CUN archer is the only choice on consoles, but then I've been told that dex does increase your bow damage, so I'm just confused..

[swk3000]

I'd like to point out that I was unaware that Aim doubled the Crit chance from Song of Courage. A Cunning score of 30 gives you a +5% chance to Crit with Song of Courage. And tetracycloide is right: there are very few items that give increased chances to Crit. In this case, I'd have to revise my Spec advice to make use of that.



Weapon: Far Song

Helm: The Long Sight

Gloves: Red Jenny Seekers

Body: The Felon's Coat

Feet: Cadash Stompers

Belt: Longbowman's Belt

Amulet: Spellward

Ring 1: Key to the City

Ring 2: Dusk Ring



This setup gives a grand total of 13.6% chance to Crit. Song of Courage at 80 Cunning would give +10% chance to Crit, bringing us up to 23.6% chance to Crit. Aim then doubles Ranged Crit Chance, so you'd end up with a 47.2% chance to crit. That's not too shabby, if you ask me. And it's really only possible on a Cunning build.



Finally, while Aim decreases rate of fire, a stack of Swift Salves will take care of any problems in that regard, I should think.

[mosspit]

Trouble? Nothing of note. The moment I decided that I ran a max rogue, I knew what is to expect of my early game. However, I did not count on to be so amusing. If you are interested to know, the worst was actually during the Origin Storiy. But it just go uphill from there.

[JPCamden]

Yeah but with the Song of Courage build, I'd have to wait forever just to get it, right? I was thinking of going Duelist/Ranger. Now I'm just conflicted as to whether to go CUN or DEX.
Oh, and what's the Ranger XP Bug? (Gonna delete my post below, if I can).

Also, what kind of damage will I be doing if I go full CUN build? At level.. 12 or 13 with my DW Warrior and nothing that great, I was doing like 30-40 dmg per hit. With 2 big swords. Will I be doing damage like that with an archer?

Modifié par JPCamden, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:50 .

[JPCamden]

Guess I can't delete. Oh well...

Modifié par JPCamden, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:50 .

[Mr_Raider]

SuperMedbh wrote...

How about for us PC sorts? I'm planning on rerunning my first character, a city elf rogue. I tried to do too much with her (DW and archery), so second time around, I think I'll focus on the archery. For RP reasons, Bard and Ranger fit into my concept of her.

For the PC, as 1.02, this is how it works: all bows (long and short), dex for attack, 50/50 str/dex for damage.

[SuperMedbh]

So short and long bows figure damage the same way on the PC? I thought shorts were dex only.

[JPCamden]

So far this topic has just confused me more as to what to do, lol.



Still at the crossroads of "CUN or DEX?"

So the problem with consoles is that DEX supposedly doesn't up your damage?

[dkjestrup]

Well, I only checked Dex damage on the stats screen, on PS3, not from actually attacking enemies.



If you aren't sure, I can confirm that a Duelist/Ranger Cunning build will not GIMP your character.



It's hard to chose. If you ended up around level 30, then I'd say Bard/Cun for sure, but really, Bard<Duelist for like 90% of the game atm.