626 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

Wait, what? I was unaware that the Veil had actually split in Rivain due to the discord there.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

Wait, what? I was unaware that the Veil had actually split in Rivain due to the discord there.

It's in World of Thedas. The exalted march declared by the Chantry was so violent, and the slaughter so large, that the veil was actually sundered. Then the Chantry denied attacking Rivain completely.

[Senya]

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

You make a good point, but it takes a great amount of violence to sunder the veil through normal means whereas, it is in blood magic's nature to feed off death and one blood mage to make a tear in the Veil.

Modifié par almostinsane99, 30 septembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[dragonflight288]

almostinsane99 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

You make a good point, but it takes a great amount of violence to sunder the veil through normal means whereas, it is in blood magic's nature to feed off death and one blood mage to make a tear in the Veil.

Not always. Not exactly the strongest defense of blood magic, but I'm not trying to defend it. *shrug* It can be a very useful tool, given the right circumstances, but if we license any practitioner of it, they would have to be under constant supervision/observation without exception. The potential for abusing it is just too high.

[draken-heart]

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

[Senya]

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

You make a good point, but it takes a great amount of violence to sunder the veil through normal means whereas, it is in blood magic's nature to feed off death and one blood mage to make a tear in the Veil.

Not always. Not exactly the strongest defense of blood magic, but I'm not trying to defend it. *shrug* It can be a very useful tool, given the right circumstances, but if we license any practitioner of it, they would have to be under constant supervision/observation without exception. The potential for abusing it is just too high.

I agree with you that the potential for abusing it is too high. I suppose where we differ is that you think it can be monitored enough so that it is not abused and I'd rather not take the chance.

It is, indeed, a dangerous tool.

[dragonflight288]

almostinsane99 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I do not think Irving is a blood mage. He most definitely isn't.

I personally think blood magic is forbidden for a reason. There has been overkill, yes, but it is a magic that feeds off death, is used to summon demons, and weakens the Veil. How eviler could it get?

When it's sundered in non-magical means through violence? That happened a few times before in Thedas history.

the Brecilian Forest ended up as it is, spirits possessing trees and becoming sylvans, because of a war, and northern Rivain's veil was sundered because of an exalted march against the Qunari who broke the treaty and refused to leave.

You make a good point, but it takes a great amount of violence to sunder the veil through normal means whereas, it is in blood magic's nature to feed off death and one blood mage to make a tear in the Veil.

Not always. Not exactly the strongest defense of blood magic, but I'm not trying to defend it. *shrug* It can be a very useful tool, given the right circumstances, but if we license any practitioner of it, they would have to be under constant supervision/observation without exception. The potential for abusing it is just too high.

I agree with you that the potential for abusing it is too high. I suppose where we differ is that you think it can be monitored enough so that it is not abused and I'd rather not take the chance.

It is, indeed, a dangerous tool.

I like to think of it as the Dragon Amulet from Jade Empire. In the right hands, is a very powerful and effective tool that can make the world a better place. In the wrong hands, it is probably the most dangerous thing in the world.

[Laughing_Man]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I agree with you that the potential for abusing it is too high. I suppose where we differ is that you think it can be monitored enough so that it is not abused and I'd rather not take the chance.

It is, indeed, a dangerous tool.

The danger is greater, but the potential rewards are also greater.

Think anti-matter. Potentialy very destructive, and hard to get.
But if you can harness it's potential, you probably won't lack energy. Ever.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 30 septembre 2013 - 05:39 .

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

[Senya]

True. I'm just one of those people who would rather not risk such a thing on planet Earth. Perhaps on a facility on Mars would be better.

Modifié par almostinsane99, 30 septembre 2013 - 05:44 .

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

Remove demons and it still a slippery slope.

Say Mage Albert uses blood magic to control a bandit and keeps him from attacking a town. That's all well and good, but then he uses blood magic to control a neighborhood bully from picking on someone, again all well and good.

But when does using blood magic's justification end?

Blood magic's utility as a tool, if demons were removed, is a very grey area at least.

[dragonflight288]

almostinsane99 wrote...

True. I'm just one of those people who would rather not risk such a thing on planet Earth. Perhaps on a facility on Mars would be better.

Fair enough. Tell you what, you can be Knight-Commander at one circle, and I'll be Knight-Commander at another circle. I'll authroize blood magic in a very controlled environment to solve problems...say healing and directing blood flow while the healing takes place or something. You can oversee the school of spirit and the creation of spirit healers....or some other canon-friendly way, and we can compare and see who has the best results with the least amount of damage.  

:innocent:

[Laughing_Man]

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

True. I'm just one of those people who would rather not risk such a thing on planet Earth. Perhaps on a facility on Mars would be better.

Fair enough. Tell you what, you can be Knight-Commander at one circle, and I'll be Knight-Commander at another circle. I'll authroize blood magic in a very controlled environment to solve problems...say healing and directing blood flow while the healing takes place or something. You can oversee the school of spirit and the creation of spirit healers....or some other canon-friendly way, and we can compare and see who has the best results with the least amount of damage.  

:innocent:

*facepalm*
No I won't tell you. Figure it out yourself.

[andy6915]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

Remove demons and it still a slippery slope.

Say Mage Albert uses blood magic to control a bandit and keeps him from attacking a town. That's all well and good, but then he uses blood magic to control a neighborhood bully from picking on someone, again all well and good.

But when does using blood magic's justification end?

Blood magic's utility as a tool, if demons were removed, is a very grey area at least.

Or just handle it how my blood mage characters do: If I'm already intending to kill them, then it doesn't really matter how I do it as long as I do it. Whether I whack him with my staff, or freeze and shatter him, or light him on fire, or explode him, or... Control his buddy next to him to make him kill him. I wouldn't use it out a childhood bully unless I was already intending to kill said bully, and if that's the case then he's screwed no matter what method I use. Either that or using it as a technique to get vital information out of an enemy and only if the only other option for getting the info is getting rough with them anyway (simply making them tell me with a few seconds of blood magic is kinder then beating the crap out of them). Now explain how this is a slippery slope, just using blood control as just another means of killing someone I already intend to kill or to harmlessly extract information or intel?

[Cainhurst Crow]

More jowans, less crazies.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

Remove demons and it still a slippery slope.

Say Mage Albert uses blood magic to control a bandit and keeps him from attacking a town. That's all well and good, but then he uses blood magic to control a neighborhood bully from picking on someone, again all well and good.

But when does using blood magic's justification end?

Blood magic's utility as a tool, if demons were removed, is a very grey area at least.

The only slippery slope is if a mage allows it to be there. If the mage does not allow blood magic or power or the temptation for it to control his actions, there is no slippery slope.

Saying anything of the sort is Fenris talk.

[Cainhurst Crow]

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

Remove demons and it still a slippery slope.

Say Mage Albert uses blood magic to control a bandit and keeps him from attacking a town. That's all well and good, but then he uses blood magic to control a neighborhood bully from picking on someone, again all well and good.

But when does using blood magic's justification end?

Blood magic's utility as a tool, if demons were removed, is a very grey area at least.

The only slippery slope is if a mage allows it to be there. If the mage does not allow blood magic or power or the temptation for it to control his actions, there is no slippery slope.

Saying anything of the sort is Fenris talk.

But those people are so rare, so unbelievably rare, that the chances of every mage, even half the mages, to be that virtuous on their own without anyone else imposing that on them, is ludicrous to believe.

[Laughing_Man]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But those people are so rare, so unbelievably rare, that the chances of every mage, even half the mages, to be that virtuous on their own without anyone else imposing that on them, is ludicrous to believe.

Aaannnd we get to the start of the circle again, where I tell you that magical law-enforcment should exist,
only that those responsible for it shouldn't be overzealous fanatics from a church based in a rival country.

And that if only you are willing to work toward peace and co-existance, there are quite a few *reasonable* solutions out there, solutions that do not require the death or enslavment of one side or the other.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheRedVipress wrote...
The danger is greater, but the potential rewards are also greater.

Think anti-matter. Potentialy very destructive, and hard to get.
But if you can harness it's potential, you probably won't lack energy. Ever.

Not exactly a good comparison.

Anti-matter is a huge investment. Only produced at a single facility, guarded and controleld by hunderds of sceintists. No single person can actually "harness" or use its' power. And there's no real temptation in using it..It's just a power source.
You're very limtied with what you can do with an anti-matter reactor.


Magic...blood magic especially is a different matter. Magic is tempting. Magic is personal. Magic is infinitely more abusable.

[Lotion Soronarr]

andy69156915 wrote...

Or just handle it how my blood mage characters do: If I'm already intending to kill them, then it doesn't really matter how I do it as long as I do it. Whether I whack him with my staff, or freeze and shatter him, or light him on fire, or explode him, or... Control his buddy next to him to make him kill him. I wouldn't use it out a childhood bully unless I was already intending to kill said bully, and if that's the case then he's screwed no matter what method I use.

Who said anything about killing? You can use blood magic to get back at anyone who ever crossed you. To get everything you ever wanted. Subtle manipulation. Ruin a persons life.
Unlimited potential for abuse.

And methods do matter.
Killing someone by shoving a sword trough their heart or by slowly torturing him to death - kinda different, isn't it?

[Laughing_Man]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not exactly a good comparison.

Anti-matter is a huge investment. Only produced at a single facility, guarded and controleld by hunderds of sceintists. No single person can actually "harness" or use its' power. And there's no real temptation in using it..It's just a power source.
You're very limtied with what you can do with an anti-matter reactor.


Magic...blood magic especially is a different matter. Magic is tempting. Magic is personal. Magic is infinitely more abusable.

It was not intended as a straight up comparison, just to point destructive potential.
And anti-matter *right now* is only available in this way. Technology might make it more reachable at some point.

And as for magic, If you don't let your fears guide you, you can enjoy it's potential in infinate number of ways.
Instead of encouraging resentment with oppression, take a more inclusive approach.
Of course, safeguards should exist, but not in their current fashion.

Taking a newborn babe from his mother just because she is a mage, is not something that should be taken lightly. As are other shocking practices.

[dragonflight288]

TheRedVipress wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

True. I'm just one of those people who would rather not risk such a thing on planet Earth. Perhaps on a facility on Mars would be better.

Fair enough. Tell you what, you can be Knight-Commander at one circle, and I'll be Knight-Commander at another circle. I'll authroize blood magic in a very controlled environment to solve problems...say healing and directing blood flow while the healing takes place or something. You can oversee the school of spirit and the creation of spirit healers....or some other canon-friendly way, and we can compare and see who has the best results with the least amount of damage.  

:innocent:

*facepalm*
No I won't tell you. Figure it out yourself.

Were you taking me completely seriously?

[dragonflight288]

andy69156915 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

"Magic is to serve man, not to rule them (or something like that)"

I see no problem with Blood magic if it is not used for selfish power gains. Control a bandit that is attacking a town into slaughtering his fellows, that is serving man, not selfishly ruling them.

Hmmm.....that can be controversial because that kind of action, while heroic, is also a slippery slope. When does the mage in question know when it is right to control another, and when it isn't. It'll be really easy to justify controlling others for smaller stuff, after having done it before.

Not saying it will happen, but that is a slippery slope.

The only reason it is considered a slippery slope or that it is bad is because of the demon thing. That is bad but the problem it is made out to be. Mages who learn it, but are powerful enough to resist the rest of the deal, I think it is grey at least.

Remove demons and it still a slippery slope.

Say Mage Albert uses blood magic to control a bandit and keeps him from attacking a town. That's all well and good, but then he uses blood magic to control a neighborhood bully from picking on someone, again all well and good.

But when does using blood magic's justification end?

Blood magic's utility as a tool, if demons were removed, is a very grey area at least.

Or just handle it how my blood mage characters do: If I'm already intending to kill them, then it doesn't really matter how I do it as long as I do it. Whether I whack him with my staff, or freeze and shatter him, or light him on fire, or explode him, or... Control his buddy next to him to make him kill him. I wouldn't use it out a childhood bully unless I was already intending to kill said bully, and if that's the case then he's screwed no matter what method I use. Either that or using it as a technique to get vital information out of an enemy and only if the only other option for getting the info is getting rough with them anyway (simply making them tell me with a few seconds of blood magic is kinder then beating the crap out of them). Now explain how this is a slippery slope, just using blood control as just another means of killing someone I already intend to kill or to harmlessly extract information or intel?

Ah. I misunderstood originally.

If you're fighting and going to kill them anyway, then yeah, tha removes the slippery slope.