25 réponses à ce sujet

[AmazingOlivia]

After doing a bit of reading on the DA wikiw about the different religions of Thedas, I've come to think that maybe the different religions are connected.

In this theory, I'm going to be combining differeant aspects of the different religions, so it won't be pure Chantry lore or Elven lore.

According to the Chantry, The Maker imprisoned the Old Gods underground before he retreated to the Golden City.

Elven lore mentions The Forgotten ones who were evil and spiteful, etc... It also states that they were trapped, presumably around the same time as The Creators were, when Arlathan fell.

Neither the Old Gods nor the Elven Creators are credited with creating the world.
And then there is Fen'Harel, who trapped the Elven Creators and The Forgotten Ones away.

What if, the Old Gods and The Forgotten Ones are the same, we don't know why, but the Forgotten ones didn't like The Creators and might have advocated for the destruction of Arlathan, like the Old Gods did. The fact that the Old Gods were buried underground, and would explain why the Elves came to know them as The Forgotten Ones.

The Creators were said to have been sealed under or in the Eternal City(Golden City), What if they were the true object of attack when Dumat sent the Magisters to the city?

And then there is Fen'Harel. Who could be the Maker. Recognized as kin to both clans of gods, but would be vilanized by the "evil" gods after tricking them and sealing them away.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's possible I guess but I've never believed any of the theories that the gods of one religion are actually secretly the same ones from another. Especially the Maker and Fen'Harel, they were said to want such different things by the people that believed in them that it doesn't make much sense to me that one being could be both.

It's also worth noting that there are seven Old Gods and apparently only three Forgotten Ones. If your theory is true, would that mean that the Blights are actually created by the Elven Gods as a way to strike back at the Forgotten Ones?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 septembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[AmazingOlivia]

Only three known ones, the Dalish know almost nothing about their religion, so they would know even less about the Forgotten Ones.

[whykikyouwhy]

It wouldn't be too far-fetched for there to be a case of parallel myths going on - that each culture witnessed common events and wove the story of them in a different way. Just as the hero's journey, the story of a great flood, and some sort of (ultimate) sacrifice are themes that run throughout our own world (religions, myths, etc.), Thedas probably has its own share - the division of deities/powerful entities and the separation of mortals from magic probably being at the heart of them.

With the Veil being torn in DA:I, I think we'll get to see a little more of that history/lore unfold. (which is all sorts of exciting)

[Ravensword]

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

[Laughing_Man]

Ravensword wrote...

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

Well, the Archdemons are either former gods, or magical beings powerfull enough to be considered so.

[Knight of Dane]

TheRedVipress wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

Well, the Archdemons are either former gods, or magical beings powerfull enough to be considered so.

Or just really big dragons.

[Laughing_Man]

Knight of Dane wrote...

TheRedVipress wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

Well, the Archdemons are either former gods, or magical beings powerfull enough to be considered so.

Or just really big dragons.

Big sentient dragons with magic powers, just about what I said.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 23 septembre 2013 - 11:42 .

[azarhal]

Knight of Dane wrote...

TheRedVipress wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

Well, the Archdemons are either former gods, or magical beings powerfull enough to be considered so.

Or just really big dragons.

People are making a mistake here. The Old Gods were not worshipped because they had super powers, they were worshipped because they were on top of the dragons hierarchy and they were communicating through the Fade to the Dreamers. The entire thing grew from humans early belief that their heroes re-incanated into dragons (i.e. ancestral worship mixed with dragons being the top of the food chain in Thedas). When the Dreamers started to hear voices from the Golden City and that these voices claimed to be the "king among dragons" (stealing this from Sten in the comics), the switch to the Old Gods was easy to achieve...(and convenient from my point-of-view).

[Br3admax]

TheRedVipress wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

TheRedVipress wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I don't really think there are any gods in the DA universe. It's just myths and legends.

Well, the Archdemons are either former gods, or magical beings powerfull enough to be considered so.

Or just really big dragons.

Big sentient dragons with magic powers, just about what I said.

But they aren't really gods. They are incredibly powerful, but anything that can be killed by a mortal of almost no significane, aside from being tainted, is no god. There souls are destroyed by the souls of mortals like any other. So much for godhood, if you ask me. 

[Navasha]

I have had the exact same thoughts OP. Fen'harel, the trickster god, sealed away all opposition to his own rule and became the Maker. Everyone believes the Maker to be a "good" deity... He is a trickster after all if it is Fen'harel.

Perhaps that is why the Chantry was told to fear mages and lock them away. Fen'harel knew that only magic could end up freeing the imprisoned gods. Tevinter succeeded in doing just that.

All this chaos could be the slow unraveling of Fen'harel's plans.

[In Exile]

Even if gods in Thedas are real, there seems to be something really messed up to be about making race-specific gods and then turning the tables around and making it so that myths of one race alone are the only myths that are true.

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Even if gods in Thedas are real, there seems to be something really messed up to be about making race-specific gods and then turning the tables around and making it so that myths of one race alone are the only myths that are true.

If any of these myths are true, I think it'll be more like the story of the blind people and the elephant, with everyone having a component but no one having the full story. Of course, the myths don't necessarily contradict each other too much (the Chantry's, because it makes the most assertions, creates the most contradictions and seems likely to be the one that's most wrong, but not necessarily completely so).

[mousestalker]

What would be utterly delightful is if the writers tell the story they want to tell and as we continue to play the games, the clues begin making a coherent story. That would be the lore equivalent of solving a mystery or assembling a crossword puzzle.

[Taura-Tierno]

Br3ad wrote...

But they aren't really gods. They are incredibly powerful, but anything that can be killed by a mortal of almost no significane, aside from being tainted, is no god. There souls are destroyed by the souls of mortals like any other. So much for godhood, if you ask me. 

"Aside from being tainted"? That's already something pretty significant. Who said gods cannot die? Gods have died a lot, in various mythologies. The whole Grey Warden bit is a pretty special exception to their immortality. 

[Taleroth]

Br3ad wrote...

But they aren't really gods. They are incredibly powerful, but anything that can be killed by a mortal of almost no significane, aside from being tainted, is no god. 

That's a pretty silly discriminator for godhood. It took a sizeable army, several high level characters, and special magic derived from a previous Archdemon.

Add 10 more levels to the characters, but the same kind of circumstance, I'd give you a fair shot at any part of the Forgotten Realms pantheon. And plenty of gods in ancient tales were felled with lss.

Really, the only thing it requires to be a god is that someone worships you. You don't have to be invincible or world creating.

Modifié par Taleroth, 23 septembre 2013 - 01:58 .

[mousestalker]

All of the Norse gods were mortal.

[Khevan77]

To be perfectly honest, I don't want any answers regarding the religions of Thedas. I want them kept somewhat ambiguous, where we're not really sure if any one is true, or they're all related, or anything of the sort, because some questions shouldn't have answers.

I like the mystery and the uncertainty about some of the lore in the Dragon Age universe. I feel that answering some of these larger questions that don't really directly affect the plot would ruin some of the wonder, some of the majesty in the setting. DA2 was a rushed game, it had it's issues (and DA:O wasn't perfect either, in my opinion) but the setting of the series is what redeemed DA2 in many ways (for me at least, your mileage may vary). I don't want that setting to be trivialized, I don't want to be spoonfed answers to Life's Great Mysteries™. I want there to be ambiguity, I want there to be questions, and as much as ME3 turned "speculation" into a curse word, I want there to be room for speculation in this kind of thing.

Please don't set this kinda thing in stone, leave it to our imaginations. Thanks for reading my ramble, may you have a wonderful day.

[Br3admax]

Taleroth wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

But they aren't really gods. They are incredibly powerful, but anything that can be killed by a mortal of almost no significane, aside from being tainted, is no god. 

That's a pretty silly discriminator for godhood. It took a sizeable army, several high level characters, and special magic derived from a previous Archdemon.

Add 10 more levels to the characters, but the same kind of circumstance, I'd give you a fair shot at any part of the Forgotten Realms pantheon. And plenty of gods in ancient tales were felled with lss.

Really, the only thing it requires to be a god is that someone worships you. You don't have to be invincible or world creating.

Worshiped as a god, and being a god are two very different things. 

[Taleroth]

Br3ad wrote...

Worshiped as a god, and being a god are two very different things. 

They're really not. Godhood is fairly arbitrary.  Which is why mankind used to worship its kings.

[Dean_the_Young]

More to the point, there's no objective criteria for traits a god must or must not have to qualify. Mortality, and immortality, have both been used frequently in religions in regards to various gods. Once you get away from the Abrahamic religions (where there is only one divine being, who is immortal), killable gods are downright common- Greek, Hindu, Taoism, etc.

Various religions frequently lean on the concept of the immortal soul, so that gods (and mortals) can die and be reborn again, but there are others that don't. There are some mountains in Asia, I believe, which were once believed to be slain gods.

[azarhal]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

More to the point, there's no objective criteria for traits a god must or must not have to qualify. Mortality, and immortality, have both been used frequently in religions in regards to various gods. Once you get away from the Abrahamic religions (where there is only one divine being, who is immortal), killable gods are downright common- Greek, Hindu, Taoism, etc.

Various religions frequently lean on the concept of the immortal soul, so that gods (and mortals) can die and be reborn again, but there are others that don't. There are some mountains in Asia, I believe, which were once believed to be slain gods.

You explained this better than me.

The Old Gods and the Creators clearly fit into the Greek/Hindu/Norse/etc category of gods. While the Maker seems based on Gnosticism. The Fade is the Realm of the dead for all cultures though.

[General TSAR]

Navasha wrote...

I have had the exact same thoughts OP. Fen'harel, the trickster god, sealed away all opposition to his own rule and became the Maker. Everyone believes the Maker to be a "good" deity... He is a trickster after all if it is Fen'harel.

Perhaps that is why the Chantry was told to fear mages and lock them away. Fen'harel knew that only magic could end up freeing the imprisoned gods. Tevinter succeeded in doing just that.

All this chaos could be the slow unraveling of Fen'harel's plans.

Mind=Blown.

[myahele]

I like the theory of these religions having a shared origin and I hope these mysteries will be solved someday.

Also, like previously stated there are plenty of gods from different religions that are killable. Arch demons are immortal in that they can reincarnate themselves in a different darkspawn, but it takes a special ritual that Grey Wardens use to prevent this process