539 réponses à ce sujet

[LuckyBullet95]

Element 0 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

So after all these specialized mods and setups, the Argus became almost like the Valkyrie?

Why not use the Valkyrie in the first place? If you like long range accurate burst fire at all?

There's no change to the argus here, it's the default gun. I am withholding judgement on which is "better" when comparing the valkyrie to the argus (one is an ultra rare, so it doesn't really matter if its better) but the valkyrie lacks that.... punch that the argus has. Not done the maths, but the TTK on the valkyrie is probably shorter, and you could probably get away with barrel and not stability mod, so it probably would edge ahead.

The argus however, is far from terrible, not for a rare anyway.

 

Do this challenge on a DEFAULT game. Record. 

Week 2: The Shepard Clone's War Part 1 -- First Blink After Coma 

social.bioware.com/group/8743/discussion/31860/

And how would he definitively prove it? There's no guaranteed way to confirm that his coalesced is default whilst in game and therefore you'd just claim he was modding anyways.

[Creator Limbs]

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

See Dunvi's posts. It's 4 seconds of complete immunity, might be shorter on platinum and longer on lower difficulties, not entirely sure.

Actually, I'm not sure if it's affected by the game speed modifier... may or may not be, I'd have to check. You basically have to finish standing before a synckill can lock on to you (basically, as in the same as "you have to be standing to start moving again" except loldodges), then the sync initiator's targeting cycle has to grab you, rotate and move you (yes, there are variables for your rotation and movement speeds to get you into sync position) and then execute the animation (with the cheat kill applied at its time...)

Since a second's immunity from ops packs barely gets you through the fastest sync kills, perhaps you can see why it's so rare/uncommon that you'd survive with medigel immunity.

I dunno about that medi-gel thing. I swear I've been Rock Bottomed by a Brute (or otherwise synced) before the standing animation could complete. Four seconds seems like a long time, though. I'll definitely be paying closer attention the next time it happens.

[Evil]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

Both of them are burst fire AR's, and both have similar weight ranges.
Not a perfect comparison, I know, but the only other thing to compare it with is the vindicator.

[iOnlySignIn]

Annomander wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

So after all these specialized mods and setups, the Argus became almost like the Valkyrie?

Why not use the Valkyrie in the first place? If you like long range accurate burst fire at all?

There's no change to the argus here, it's the default gun. I am withholding judgement on which is "better" when comparing the valkyrie to the argus (one is an ultra rare, so it doesn't really matter if its better) but the valkyrie lacks that.... punch that the argus has. Not done the maths, but the TTK on the valkyrie is probably shorter, and you could probably get away with barrel and not stability mod, so it probably would edge ahead.

The argus however, is far from terrible, not for a rare anyway.

I did not mean to imply that you changed the gun itself. By "specialized mods and setups" I meant you stacked all possible Stability, Accuracy, and ROF bonuses (Stability Module V + Barrage Upgrade V + Thermo Scope + Devastator Mode). After all these the Argus becomes very similar to the Valkyrie. I prefer my guns to feel different from each other.

According to Cyonan Vakyrie has better sustained DPS than Argus (both unmodded). Although the Argus does have a more badass sound effect.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 23 septembre 2013 - 10:42 .

[Dunvi]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Annomander wrote...

DHKany wrote...

You definitely become invulnerable for a few seconds after gelling. Never got synced, but I sure as hell have eaten quite a few bullets after getting up.

So does everyone else who has ever used a medigel.

Not what the other console guys are saying, unless my reading comprehension has gone to crap 

See Dunvi's posts. It's 4 seconds of complete immunity, might be shorter on platinum and longer on lower difficulties, not entirely sure.

The sync kill occurs around 117 frames after I press medigel. Meaning it was a "near miss".

4 seconds... and 117 frames was a "near miss". Are you playing at 30 FPS? Of course you are you are recording, but just wait for AQ to call it. By the way: I think I already know the answer but Is invincibility more valuable on higher framerates due to the larger amount of frames that pass in the window of invinicibilty (if you get 4 seconds of invincibility then @30FPS you get 120 i-frames, @60FPS you get 240 i-frames and :120FPS you get 480 i-frames)? Or am I missing something important? Or am I completely missing the point?

Yes and no... At longer invulnerability times, high frame rates win... at shorter invulnerability periods, middle framerates should actually lose out the most (though high really isn't any better) because they have enough precision for the invulnerability to end quickly, but not the precision to do anything in those frames.

As an example of each, a short invulnerability period iis something like shieldgate: at low framerates you actually get some time back. For example, platinum shield gate is 0.01 seconds... at 30 fps a frame is 0.033 seconds, at 60 fps a frame is 0.0167 seconds, at 120 fps a frame is 0.00833... 30 fps players get 3x the stated invulnerability period, 60 fps players get ~1.5x the stated period, and 120 fps players also get ~1.5x... someone at 90-100 fps would loose out the most because they only get one frame, were as above 100fps you're probably getting a second frame

A long invulnerability period would be such as the above ops packs and medigels, which means that at frame rates you have better precision to hit the start of the "movement" periods and thus get the hell out of dodge alive, whether by a dodge ability, or because you got synced faster 

[ISHYGDDT]

So you can 2-burst shielded mooks, although it takes 3 usually due to lolcombatroll. That's better than I expected.

[didacuscarr]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

Same here. I don't get it, I mean the Valkyrie is awesome and better, but that doesn't mean the Argus is bad and I really love the Valkyrie. 

[iOnlySignIn]

N7didacus wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

So after all these specialized mods and setups, the Argus became almost like the Valkyrie?

Why not use the Valkyrie in the first place? If you like long range accurate burst fire at all?

Variety. 

Exactly. They are different guns and should be used differently for the sake of variety.

[Dunvi]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

See Dunvi's posts. It's 4 seconds of complete immunity, might be shorter on platinum and longer on lower difficulties, not entirely sure.

Actually, I'm not sure if it's affected by the game speed modifier... may or may not be, I'd have to check. You basically have to finish standing before a synckill can lock on to you (basically, as in the same as "you have to be standing to start moving again" except loldodges), then the sync initiator's targeting cycle has to grab you, rotate and move you (yes, there are variables for your rotation and movement speeds to get you into sync position) and then execute the animation (with the cheat kill applied at its time...)

Since a second's immunity from ops packs barely gets you through the fastest sync kills, perhaps you can see why it's so rare/uncommon that you'd survive with medigel immunity.

I dunno about that medi-gel thing. I swear I've been Rock Bottomed by a Brute (or otherwise synced) before the standing animation could complete. Four seconds seems like a long time, though. I'll definitely be paying closer attention the next time it happens.

It definitely exists. I modded it on my game and it makes a tangible difference... 4 seconds is not as long as it sounds because it's starting as soon as you hit medigel, which is long before you can actually move/do anything. It actually ends before the standing animation is completely and utterly complete I think though I'd have to check that to be positive, and even the fastest sync kills have a delay both in the intial setup and in the execution (cheat kill isn't applied immediately but after part of the animation is complete).

[Creator Limbs]

Element 0 wrote...

N7didacus wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

Same here. I don't get it, I mean the Valkyrie is awesome and better, but that doesn't mean the Argus is bad and I really love the Valkyrie. 

 

It's only decent if you stack it to the roof with everything possible accuracy, stability and damage wise and not only on the gun, but you also need a very specific character to use it. Or else it SUCKS harder than Paris Hilton. 

The exact same thing can be said for many guns in this game, and yet I don't see you complaining about how bad they are..instead I've seen you defend several of them.

[Dunvi]

Element 0 wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

 

GPR is also classified as a Rare. It's not better than Phaeston. Or Mattock. 

GPSMG is also a Rare. Is it better than Locust or Tempest. Don't think so.  

Even when comparing UR's there's a massive difference. 

Saber is better than Valkyrie. Harrier is better than Valkyrie

Typhoon is better than Spitfire. 

Talon is way better than Eagle or Paladin. 

You've never taken any kind of logic or formal argument class, have you... not sure how pointing out the guns that are massively overbuffed and those that are underpowered proves that over all the gun weapon tiers do approximate some level of power-level groupings.

Also I would disagree with most of those statements to at least some degree, but I digress.

[iOnlySignIn]

Element 0 wrote...

Saber is better than Valkyrie. 

Well if you use Disruptor or Phasic Ammo on Gold, perhaps. But what a waste then.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 23 septembre 2013 - 10:53 .

[BridgeBurner]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Annomander wrote...

DHKany wrote...

You definitely become invulnerable for a few seconds after gelling. Never got synced, but I sure as hell have eaten quite a few bullets after getting up.

So does everyone else who has ever used a medigel.

Not what the other console guys are saying, unless my reading comprehension has gone to crap 

See Dunvi's posts. It's 4 seconds of complete immunity, might be shorter on platinum and longer on lower difficulties, not entirely sure.

The sync kill occurs around 117 frames after I press medigel. Meaning it was a "near miss".

4 seconds... and 117 frames was a "near miss". Are you playing at 30 FPS? Of course you are you are recording, but just wait for AQ to call it. By the way: I think I already know the answer but Is invincibility more valuable on higher framerates due to the larger amount of frames that pass in the window of invinicibilty (if you get 4 seconds of invincibility then @30FPS you get 120 i-frames, @60FPS you get 240 i-frames and :120FPS you get 480 i-frames)? Or am I missing something important? Or am I completely missing the point?

No, I believe the i-frames give the same "duration" regardless of what actual frame rate, EDIT: pay attention to dunvi, she knows more about the mechanics than I do. 120 frames at 30fps, 492 (I use triple buffering, so its more like 123fps) at 120fps; the game calculates some things in real time, and others on a frame by frame basis.

For instance, if you want to cheat at speedruns, you can change the game speed multiplier to something stupid... like 5x. Providing your cpu can keep up, everything in game occurs 5x faster, but the actual game "clock" still counts real time seconds for shield gate / health gate, invincibility frames, and the actual match time at the same speed. This... regretably, applies to staggers also. So faster game speed actually = longer staggers from what I've seen.

So you can solo platinum in 6 minutes with some practice if you're careful, and your screenshot will even say it took you 6 minutes... when in actual fact it took you 5x as long as that, it's just the game was running faster.

Modifié par Annomander, 23 septembre 2013 - 10:56 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Dunvi wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

See Dunvi's posts. It's 4 seconds of complete immunity, might be shorter on platinum and longer on lower difficulties, not entirely sure.

Actually, I'm not sure if it's affected by the game speed modifier... may or may not be, I'd have to check. You basically have to finish standing before a synckill can lock on to you (basically, as in the same as "you have to be standing to start moving again" except loldodges), then the sync initiator's targeting cycle has to grab you, rotate and move you (yes, there are variables for your rotation and movement speeds to get you into sync position) and then execute the animation (with the cheat kill applied at its time...)

Since a second's immunity from ops packs barely gets you through the fastest sync kills, perhaps you can see why it's so rare/uncommon that you'd survive with medigel immunity.

I dunno about that medi-gel thing. I swear I've been Rock Bottomed by a Brute (or otherwise synced) before the standing animation could complete. Four seconds seems like a long time, though. I'll definitely be paying closer attention the next time it happens.

It definitely exists. I modded it on my game and it makes a tangible difference... 4 seconds is not as long as it sounds because it's starting as soon as you hit medigel, which is long before you can actually move/do anything. It actually ends before the standing animation is completely and utterly complete I think though I'd have to check that to be positive, and even the fastest sync kills have a delay both in the intial setup and in the execution (cheat kill isn't applied immediately but after part of the animation is complete).

So for console, it's largely a practical question, that we cannot take control of the character until after the i-frames are over (at least, I assume?)

To echo what Stryfe said, I too have a lot of footage of me being synch-killed before the standing animation is completed. I don't know if that is because the animation can take longer to complete on console, or if it is because the animation can be interrupted (it often is, by Phantom and Dragoons, in particular.)

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 23 septembre 2013 - 11:01 .

[Dunvi]

...anno, i don't think that's *quite* how triple buffering works.....

[Creator Limbs]

Element 0 wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

 

GPR is also classified as a Rare. It's not better than Phaeston. Or Mattock. 

GPSMG is also a Rare. Is it better than Locust or Tempest. Don't think so.  

Even when comparing UR's there's a massive difference. 

Saber is better than Valkyrie. Harrier is better than Valkyrie

Typhoon is better than Spitfire. 

Talon is way better than Eagle or Paladin. 

The point I'm making is that if you need to compare a gun to another gun in order to make the case that it sucks, then maybe the gun doesn't suck and you just can't use it. There's no problem with being unable to use a gun effectively.

[Dunvi]

Element 0 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I want to know why the Valkyrie and the Argus are even being compared. The Valkyrie is classified as an ultra rare, so I hope it's better than the Argus.

 

GPR is also classified as a Rare. It's not better than Phaeston. Or Mattock. 

GPSMG is also a Rare. Is it better than Locust or Tempest. Don't think so.  

Even when comparing UR's there's a massive difference. 

Saber is better than Valkyrie. Harrier is better than Valkyrie

Typhoon is better than Spitfire. 

Talon is way better than Eagle or Paladin. 

You've never taken any kind of logic or formal argument class, have you... not sure how pointing out the guns that are massively overbuffed and those that are underpowered proves that over all the gun weapon tiers do approximate some level of power-level groupings.

Also I would disagree with most of those statements to at least some degree, but I digress.

 

Harrier was never buffed. (not damage wise) (nerfed weight)

Saber was buffed, but so was the Valkyrie 

Typhoon was NERFED and yet it's still better than a BUFFED Spitfire.  

GPR was buffed multiple times. 

Eagle was buffed at least 3-4 times. 

So Drunkvi grill pls. STEAK AND TEQUILA.

......my point has just been reinforced, I think. anyone else?

also, for lulz

[BridgeBurner]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Annomander wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

So after all these specialized mods and setups, the Argus became almost like the Valkyrie?

Why not use the Valkyrie in the first place? If you like long range accurate burst fire at all?

There's no change to the argus here, it's the default gun. I am withholding judgement on which is "better" when comparing the valkyrie to the argus (one is an ultra rare, so it doesn't really matter if its better) but the valkyrie lacks that.... punch that the argus has. Not done the maths, but the TTK on the valkyrie is probably shorter, and you could probably get away with barrel and not stability mod, so it probably would edge ahead.

The argus however, is far from terrible, not for a rare anyway.

I did not mean to imply that you changed the gun itself. By "specialized mods and setups" I meant you stacked all possible Stability, Accuracy, and ROF bonuses (Stability Module V + Barrage Upgrade V + Thermo Scope + Devastator Mode). After all these the Argus becomes very similar to the Valkyrie. I prefer my guns to feel different from each other.

According to Cyonan Vakyrie has better sustained DPS than Argus (both unmodded). Although the Argus does have a more badass sound effect.

I would fully expect the valkyrie to be better. I think the difference in burst count changes the feel of the weapons tremendously though.

As I learned in Blacklight, stacking lots of X, to make Y better is sometimes much more beneficial than trying to build around the accepted normality. There's a huge difference in how effective the argus can be when you go for barrel + magazine and AP IV compared to scope, stability and AP IV.

The rare vs ultra rare argument is an interesting one, but I think everyone would have to agree that it has become the accepted norm for ultra rares to be better. Still, why use an accuracy specced assault rifle in every blacklight retribution game you play, just because it's objectively the best gun in the game? Why not be a fool and run around blasting people to chunks with an LMG that shoots and recoils all over the place... It's more fun, thats why!

This is the exact same mentality I applied to the argus vs valkyrie question.