79 réponses à ce sujet

[TheNightSlasher]

On AJA, I spec into it fully
On DA, I go with 3 ranks into it at the expense of my 6th rank in fitness
On DV, no pull...not much synergy

While its not the greatest of powers, it has some advantages like ragdolling phantoms once their barriers are down. Offers some quick getaways from husks, abombs, troopers etc.

[Simba501]

TchockTckocky wrote...

Its an ok power. I usually put only three points into it

[Daxamite]

i put 3 points in pull on my drell adept and vanguard. its nice to use it to prime and then detonate a mook in a crowd, its nice for pulling shields off guardians (many pugs dont take armour piercing) and for pulling mooks out of cover when my shields are down and i want to stay in cover myself, or to draw aggro away from a vulnerable team mate etc etc

it doesnt really have any use in platinum i suppose but its still fine on gold.

[Miniditka77]

I like Pull on the Justicar, but I find it unnecessary to max it.  I usually level it to R4, because Area Pull in combination with a bounced Acolyte shot can take out groups of enemies quickly.  And a R4 Pull-Reave combo will take out almost any mook in the game, either directly or from the physics damage / Reave DOT after the combo completes.  Possessed Captains and Phantoms sometimes survive.

I generally don't use Pull on either Drell, but not because I don't like Pull.  I just can't decide which of the Drell's other powers not to max.  I love the movement speed from maxed fitness and the Drell's awesome passives, and Cluster Grenades and Charge have to be maxed.  I suppose you could only go to R5 on Reave, but even that doesn't seem worth it, given the number of BE's you will be detonating with Reave + Clusters.

[The Mysterious Stranger]

Either I spec zero or all. Because it's very good vs phantoms when fully specced. If it's any less it's not good enough to kill any think else then the already weak enemies.

[cato potato]

I only ever specced into pull on the Justicar. Paired with an acolyte it made for a couple of easy platinum solos. I've since re-specced her for one of Prestacious's weekly challenges though, so right now I've got no characters with pull and can't say I've missed it.

[Merc Mama]

I max it out to get that lift damage in case I can't bio-splode in time. Though it feels useless against higher ranking enemies cause they won't get lifted/tainted with bio energy.
Though I do think it's better than Lash, simply because they go up, not at your face and you don't have to turn around to finish the job. Though they float into space sometimes and I do feel like Pull is just Lift with a new name. :/

[Red Panda]

Those combo bonuses in later evolutions make me want it.

[Sailears]

Merc Mama wrote...

I max it out to get that lift damage in case I can't bio-splode in time. Though it feels useless against higher ranking enemies cause they won't get lifted/tainted with bio energy.
Though I do think it's better than Lash, simply because they go up, not at your face and you don't have to turn around to finish the job. Though they float into space sometimes and I do feel like Pull is just Lift with a new name. :/

Pull is a sorry excuse compared Lift.

The trouble is not pull itself, but the "black and white" nature of biotic powers these games, particularly the mass raising and mass lowering fields - either the target is ragdolled/disabled or they are not.
Then because so many enemies are resistant (armour) to these biotic fields in higher difficulties, they become largely useless compared to a) raw power damage, debuff for weapon damage, and c) biotic explosion damage.

What we need in the next game is some sort of mass gradient for enemies, and the effectiveness of a biotic/telekinetic power should be determined by the current effective mass of a particular enemy. Perhaps this mass could diminish as hit points go down.

Modifié par Curunen, 25 septembre 2013 - 05:41 .

[Deerber]

Curunen wrote...

What we need in the next game is some sort of mass gradient for enemies, and the effectiveness of a biotic/telekinetic power should be determined by the current effective mass of a particular enemy. Perhaps this mass could diminish as hit points go down.

That's how it worked in ME1, and that's how I liked it.

To those who will say it would be OP, I'm gonna say I could bet noone would spec into them anyway, if the entire game wasn't re-thought.

[Sailears]

Deerber wrote...

Curunen wrote...

What we need in the next game is some sort of mass gradient for enemies, and the effectiveness of a biotic/telekinetic power should be determined by the current effective mass of a particular enemy. Perhaps this mass could diminish as hit points go down.

That's how it worked in ME1, and that's how I liked it.

To those who will say it would be OP, I'm gonna say I could bet noone would spec into them anyway, if the entire game wasn't re-thought.

Hmm, did it?

Maybe I can't remember correctly, but I thought almost everything was simply ragdolled/not ragdolled, with the force on an enemy only affected by the rank you had in the particular power, be it lift, singularity...

Was the force determined by enemy "mass" as well?

This is how I would like it in any case - the resultant force of throw or the duration of pull, the force of singularity, the duration of stasis... should be determined by:
- effective enemy mass
- force/duration values for your rank in the power

Then of course take into account dampening fields (armour) and such into the enemy mass, which should all be related to hitpoints.
At max hit points they have the most resistance (the most effective mass), which then decreases down to a lower limit at a certain hit point value - so you get rewarded in the effectiveness of your biotic powers by damaging/shooting a target.

Would be much better than health/armour, ragdolled/not-ragdolled...

Modifié par Curunen, 25 septembre 2013 - 06:07 .

[Merc Mama]

I actually loved biotics in ME1 & ME2..
More reliable and actually worked/hit targets, instead of rollie pollie = dodge from telekinetic powers.

[Miniditka77]

Curunen wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Curunen wrote...

What we need in the next game is some sort of mass gradient for enemies, and the effectiveness of a biotic/telekinetic power should be determined by the current effective mass of a particular enemy. Perhaps this mass could diminish as hit points go down.

That's how it worked in ME1, and that's how I liked it.

To those who will say it would be OP, I'm gonna say I could bet noone would spec into them anyway, if the entire game wasn't re-thought.

Hmm, did it?

Maybe I can't remember correctly, but I thought almost everything was simply ragdolled/not ragdolled, with the force on an enemy only affected by the rank you had in the particular power, be it lift, singularity...

Was the force determined by enemy "mass" as well?

This is how I would like it in any case - the resultant force of throw or the duration of pull, the force of singularity, the duration of stasis... should be determined by:
- effective enemy mass
- force/duration values for your rank in the power

Then of course take into account dampening fields (armour) and such into the enemy mass, which should all be related to hitpoints.
At max hit points they have the most resistance (the most effective mass), which then decreases down to a lower limit at a certain hit point value - so you get rewarded in the effectiveness of your biotic powers by damaging/shooting a target.

Would be much better than health/armour, ragdolled/not-ragdolled...

In ME1, I don't believe there were many enemies that could not be lifted (except Saren), but all enemies had a "physics threshold."  If you tried to lift heavier enemies (like Krogan) with a low-leveled Lift, they would just kind of float up a little and drop, or would sometimes be barely affected.  With a maxed lift and the Lift Mastery or whatever it was in the Passive, you could lift just about anything, including Geth Armatures.  Not sure about Colossus though.

[Sailears]

^Thanks for clarifying that. I remember you could ragdoll pretty much anything, but had forgotten there was a difference in force based on enemy mass.

So taking that system into account, and then tying their mass together with their hit points would make for an interesting game I feel.

[Evil]

Miniditka77 wrote...

In ME1, I don't believe there were many enemies that could not be lifted (except Saren), but all enemies had a "physics threshold."  If you tried to lift heavier enemies (like Krogan) with a low-leveled Lift, they would just kind of float up a little and drop, or would sometimes be barely affected.  With a maxed lift and the Lift Mastery or whatever it was in the Passive, you could lift just about anything, including Geth Armatures.  Not sure about Colossus though.

This "power only takes effect if Power Force>Targets resistance due to weight etc" system made a lot more sense than the current system IMO.

A system like this in ME3MP would have made taking power damage+force evo's in the passive tree of biotic kits a much better choice than it is now.

Since most biotics do very poor damage without BE's, which are unaffected by passives, the only biotic kits that really have a use for power+force boosts are the ones with throw, shockwave, and charge, for staggering phantoms, and smash, nova, lift grenades, cluster grenades, and biotic hammer, for the damage.

All the other biotic kits tend to do better with either weapon damage passives, or 66606 build for a pure detonation build, rather than the traditional 66653 build, like engineers often use.

This is rather an odd situation for a caster, who you would expect to care about power+force boosts.

Back on topic:
Lift's effectiveness is rather dependent on the difficulty being played, and whether or not the kit is carrying a good shield stripper.

A drell with 4 in lift for the radius boost and 4 in fitness can make good use of lift to quickly dispatch groups of mooks with a 6+4 BE, which is usually good enouth to kill anything with it's shields down.
My DrellAdept uses this to save grenades for the bosses and the bigger spawns.
I used to use this on my DrellGuard, but I found skipping pull to be better for me, since I use charge and clusters for detonating ammo powers instead.

A justicar will find lift useful if playing defensively from range, but an aggressive justicar doesnt realy need it as much as she does the points in weapon damage and fitness, since reave->warp ammo gunfire->Biotic sphere(BE)->warp ammo gunfire->Reave(BE on anything in the bubble) kills mooks and wrecks bosses, If you have the fitness, weapon DPS and skill to survive long enougth to get the kills.

Lift isn't a bad power, it's just overly situational due to the way powers are affected by armour.

Oh, and LOL at the red and silver N7 girls.

[bondiboy]

Maxed out on the justicar with biotic and power upgrades it will trivialize husks and cannibals . Not so useful with other factions

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Pull: can't leave home without it

[maaaad365]

You can solo bronze and silver just by spamming that power. Spec it for damage, sit back, spam it and enjoy.

I wouldn't use pull on Platinum with all those bosses.

[Deerber]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Curunen wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Curunen wrote...

What we need in the next game is some sort of mass gradient for enemies, and the effectiveness of a biotic/telekinetic power should be determined by the current effective mass of a particular enemy. Perhaps this mass could diminish as hit points go down.

That's how it worked in ME1, and that's how I liked it.

To those who will say it would be OP, I'm gonna say I could bet noone would spec into them anyway, if the entire game wasn't re-thought.

Hmm, did it?

Maybe I can't remember correctly, but I thought almost everything was simply ragdolled/not ragdolled, with the force on an enemy only affected by the rank you had in the particular power, be it lift, singularity...

Was the force determined by enemy "mass" as well?

This is how I would like it in any case - the resultant force of throw or the duration of pull, the force of singularity, the duration of stasis... should be determined by:
- effective enemy mass
- force/duration values for your rank in the power

Then of course take into account dampening fields (armour) and such into the enemy mass, which should all be related to hitpoints.
At max hit points they have the most resistance (the most effective mass), which then decreases down to a lower limit at a certain hit point value - so you get rewarded in the effectiveness of your biotic powers by damaging/shooting a target.

Would be much better than health/armour, ragdolled/not-ragdolled...

In ME1, I don't believe there were many enemies that could not be lifted (except Saren), but all enemies had a "physics threshold."  If you tried to lift heavier enemies (like Krogan) with a low-leveled Lift, they would just kind of float up a little and drop, or would sometimes be barely affected.  With a maxed lift and the Lift Mastery or whatever it was in the Passive, you could lift just about anything, including Geth Armatures.  Not sure about Colossus though.

As far as I remember, every enemy in the game could be lifted. But the duration of the lift was dependant on the power of your lift and, inversely, on the mass of the enemy. Which made a freaking ton of sense more honestly, instead of this bull**** about armor and shields. I'm not sure about Colossus either, cause I never tried to fight them on foot.

And yes, even Saren could be lifted without any problem, but not for that long... Still, it made the fight extremely easier. But that's only because it was one guy you were fighting. Being able to lift an Atlas for a few secs while having a pretty long CD would not break this game at all.

I would honestly prefer such a system to another one which includes HP. The enemy's mass makes a ton more sense, simply put.

Modifié par Deerber, 26 septembre 2013 - 07:26 .

[dava6711]

I Iove pull, bioware should have still given it a final evolution to prime all targets it hits for a biotic explosion (but still only levitates enemies down to red health), this would have pretty much forced every player to spec all six points into it.

[FuriousFelicia]

Do you guys think it deseves the same treatment as singularity if the BE boosted evo was brought down to say 50%?

[Sailears]

Everything revolves around BEs, so no I wouldn't like to see pull prime everything.

Within the current system it should at least have had an effect similar to cryo blast and significantly slow armoured and shielded targets.

And yes Deerber, even just having that system back would be better, forget about hit points.
We could have a multi layered system of powers for dealing with enemies that have biotic dampening/resistance - perhaps a "one-two" punch kind of thing, using one power to debuff the enemy and making them susceptible to another power such as pull?

[FuriousFelicia]

Hey BEs are the only pure combo left in this game so I don't agree with that statement that everything revolves around BEs.

Everything revolves around incendiary ammo/thread

[Sailears]

Heh, yeah fair point.

But seeing as damage is more important than crowd control, the major contribution of biotics to a match are,
-direct damage
-damage over time
-debuff for weapon damage
-BE damage

Ok some BEs are different to others, such as stasis, but the major feature is damage so in that way they're all pretty much the same, which is why I wouldn't want to see more ways of creating them


The crowd control possibilities are either
-stagger
-ragdoll/disable (ie, stasis)
with nothing in between, when there should be a range of effects depending on mass of targets and potentially any other biotic resistance.