39 réponses à ce sujet

[Winter90]

1. How can I remove the visual effects of ghostly and ethereal visage? It could be done through scripting I think.. But I would need the help of people who knows that kind of stuff better than me.. Its kinda annoying being see through during conversations...( description says you are "surrounded" by a ghostly nimbus of light after all, not that you become "see through")

2. Ghostly visage has damage reduction 5/magic does that mean that it can't be overcome by adamantine weapons? Because DR 10/adamantine can only be overcome by adamantine..

3. When using the parry skill, I understand there is a bug. (Enemies attack in flurries of two and two and two, 6 attacks).Which causes the parry skill not to be acknowledged during the second attack during each flurry.

If I dodge the first attack in the flurry(or the enemy just misses) , would I get a parry check against the second attack in the flurry?

Is the parry skill coded to only do checks against the first attack in each flurry?

Or is it coded to do one check for each flurry?

Also, you can parry while casting spells right? It says so on the wiki anyway..

And do you get parry checks against attacks of opportunity?

Thanks in advance.

Modifié par Winter90, 25 septembre 2013 - 02:53 .

[kamal_]

For question 1, something like the less intrusive spell buffs would probably be of interest.
http://nwvault.ign.c...ts.Detail&id=12

[Winter90]

In the screenshot it looks like ghostly and ethereal visage is still see through... I was hoping to get rid of the polymorph'ish see through effect... I mean, it changes the whole look of the character which I find annoying.

However this mod still looks very useful, I like the spell effects of offensive spells but I do think that defensive spell effects sometime are a bit to over the top, the giant globes and everything...

So thanks, maybe I'll make use of it anyway even though it doesnt solve my original problem..

[kamal_]

There is a no-visible buffs thing out there, just not where I can find it right now.

[Dann-J]

1. Unequip your armour after casting the spell, then re-equip it. Entering a new area will probably re-apply the visual effects though.

2. Damage reduction 5/magic will only protect from magical damage (like Magic Missile). It will stop the +2 magic damage from an adamantine weapon, but not the physical damage.

3. Parry sucks. Don't bother with it, unless you plan to fight one-on-one in duels (which most mobs of enemies won't agree to).

[Winter90]

About parry... I agree that on its own it sucks.. But coupled with a high AC I think its very good.. You see.. My character has a AC around 40-45 ( 50-55 with Divine Shield, can get higher with short term buffs). Which means most enemies will never hit. Then there are a few enemies that are strong enough in groups to get in maybe 1 or 2 hits per round..

I have enough skill points to spare so that I can max the parry skill, and with buffs and equipment will reach a score of 52..

I have 5 attacks per round, (7 with buffs, 8 with two weapons) which means I can parry 5,7 or 8 times per round..

My point is that I have a high enough AC that only 1-2 hits per round get through, if I max the parry skill (52) that means that those will never hit either because the enemy needs to have a attack score of 52 to have a 50/50 chance of hitting (after passing AC check).If the attacker has an ab of 32 or less the attack will never get through regardless of roll. ( parry skill in combat is resolved: defenders parry skill VS attackers full ab bonus).

MOTB end boss has an attack bonus of 41, and then there is that crazy thay academy guard captain who has an ab of over 50 or something.

But most enemies will never reach over 32 bab. Even if they did reach around 35, you would have to be very unlucky with the rolls to be hit..

So in this case, I dont think parry is useless.

The only thing I need to know is if I get one parry check during each flurry. In which case parry is very useful.

Or if I only get a parry check against the first attack in each flurry. (Which halves the amount of attacks that can be parried) If this is the case, parry is not as useful..

And the most important thing.. WILL IT WORK WITH SPELLCASTING IN THE SAME ROUND, if not, its useless for protection while casting.

Modifié par Winter90, 25 septembre 2013 - 11:50 .

[I_Raps]

1) You can:

- Open Toolset
- File/Open conversation/script
- find the files for the spells (creative search mini-strings helpful)
- Edit them to change the Effect to one you prefer (or none)
- Save/compile and move them to override (they will be saved in your Modules folder by default; move them BEFORE shutting Toolset or they will vanish)

I think you can edit the Effects directly with the Visual Effects Editor plugin and make them more to your preference, but someone else will have to guide you on that.

[Winter90]

I_Raps wrote...

1) You can:

- Open Toolset
- File/Open conversation/script
- find the files for the spells (creative search mini-strings helpful)
- Edit them to change the Effect to one you prefer (or none)
- Save/compile and move them to override (they will be saved in your Modules folder by default; move them BEFORE shutting Toolset or they will vanish)

I think you can edit the Effects directly with the Visual Effects Editor plugin and make them more to your preference, but someone else will have to guide you on that.

Okay, I'll take a look at that option.

Thanks.

[I_Raps]

2) http://nwn2.wikia.co...mage_reduction.

3) Parry is useful to keep from getting hit. Relying on Riposte as your offense is absurd; it doesn't work that way. Many early "builds" bumped into this problem.

But as for not getting hit while quaffing a heal potion or so forth, it's quite good.

And yes, you can switch to Parry mode and cast spells/read scrolls/etc.;  in practice, this is not useful if your BAB is too high and you're surrounded, because you keep queueing up Ripostes and the game never gets around to executing your spell.

But for defensive purposes, it's excellent.

Modifié par I_Raps, 25 septembre 2013 - 11:54 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

If you use the Toolset the first thing you should do in it is go into its preferences and turn off the Autosave feature. You do not want an autosave being attempted when you have the OC open in the toolset.

Regards

[Dann-J]

In my experience (and I might be wrong), parry only works against your current target. All his friends can still hit you from behind. And no matter how high your AC is, even a level 1 enemy will still be able to hit you 5% of the time (rolling a 20 in the attack roll is an automatic hit regardless of AC, just as rolling 1 is an automatic miss no matter what your AB is). So having a high AC is no guarantee that the mob behind you won't get a few hits in.

Parry would certainly be usefull in the final MotB fight though. It'd also be useful in the OC against Lorne.

[I_Raps]

DannJ wrote...

In my experience (and I might be wrong), parry only works against your current target. All his friends can still hit you from behind. And no matter how high your AC is, even a level 1 enemy will still be able to hit you 5% of the time (rolling a 20 in the attack roll is an automatic hit regardless of AC, just as rolling 1 is an automatic miss no matter what your AB is). So having a high AC is no guarantee that the mob behind you won't get a few hits in. 

I had similar reservations about it, but at some point I just tried an experiment, which happened to be MOTB based.  I made my way through Shadow Mulsantir with Parry on, then redid it without Parry.  There was a considerable difference.  I think I might have posted about this sometime back.

[Dann-J]

My biggest gripe with parry is that using a shield decreases the skill (via the armour check penalty, I assume). Yet surely the purpose of a shield is to parry attacks!

[Arkalezth]

Parry:

It only works a maximum of 3 times per round, which means that it's only really useful at low levels, and only if you invest on its related feats. AC, as far as I know, is independent of Parry.

My biggest gripe with Parry, however, is that, unless you're soloing, you can't make enemies focus on you, and you need to actually be attacked in order to make it useful.

[manageri]

Quick note about ghostly visage: The description says it's DR/Magic but it's actually adamantine.

[Winter90]

I_Raps wrote...

DannJ wrote...

In my experience (and I might be wrong), parry only works against your current target. All his friends can still hit you from behind. And no matter how high your AC is, even a level 1 enemy will still be able to hit you 5% of the time (rolling a 20 in the attack roll is an automatic hit regardless of AC, just as rolling 1 is an automatic miss no matter what your AB is). So having a high AC is no guarantee that the mob behind you won't get a few hits in. 

I had similar reservations about it, but at some point I just tried an experiment, which happened to be MOTB based.  I made my way through Shadow Mulsantir with Parry on, then redid it without Parry.  There was a considerable difference.  I think I might have posted about this sometime back.

Can you link to your post?

Enemies attack in three flurries of two attacks right? Thats why you only get three parries per round? You only get a parry check against the first attack in each flurry.. Or is it you only get a parry check against one attack in each flurry?

The way I was going to use the parry skill was for protection while casting(I mean additional protection if enemies get through my AC). Being a spellsword I would use power attack and such while using attacks. 

My question is this: If I queue up a spell before the next round begins my character will cast the spell right? Or will it just ignore it?

Do I have to turn of parry mode to cast the spell? In which case my whole parry plan is not going to work out..

Being a spellsword my character will have a high AB, I think over 40 buffed.

Also you do get 3 parry attempts per enemy right?

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 02:48 .

[Arkalezth]

No, just 3 per round, period, regardless of the number of enemies.

My experienced with Parry is limited and I've never tried it on a caster, but I'd pass on it if I were you. If you want additional defence when casting, consider taking (Improved) Combat Expertise, but you shouldn't need anything else on top of your buffs.

[Winter90]

Yes thats what I did last time around, improved combat expertise while casting. Its a lot better than defensive casting.. I should get close to 60 AC if I take it in this build. But I was hoping to come up with something that protects me when the enemy gets through my AC. With the natural 20 rolls and stuff.

Because Im building a straight up close combat caster, I'm not taking any "lame" spells as I call it.. Like illusions and stuff, just attacking and AC buffs, as well as offensive spells(missile storm etc).

I was hoping parry could boost my defense, when all is said, my AC is high enough that 3 hits getting through my defense is an absolute max.

Do you get parry checks against natural 20 rolls?

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Parry

The wiki states that you get as many parry checks as you have attacks, and after that with -3 , -6 and so on. It also states that YOU DO GET 3 parries per opponent.

Its stated in the bug notes but if you ask me thats only fair if you are limited to three parries by a single enemy when you have more attacks.

Now we all know that the manual is very short AND wrong on information at times. But the wiki is usually right.

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 03:46 .

[Arkalezth]

Well, feel free to test it. The wiki is right sometimes, but not that much when bugs and other complicated stuff are concerned. You may want to read the pros/cons and the comments here.

I just saw that the wiki mentions an AC check after a failed Parry; I don't know if that's true, but I suppose it is. Anyway, if enemies only hit you on 20s and you have stuff like Mirror Image and Displacement on top of that (those are the opposite from "lame"), why are you so worried about defence? And what are HP for?

Like I said, I'd personally pass on Parry, but you seem interested in it, so if you have the skill points, go ahead and give it a try. BTW, I'm not sure if you intend to take CE too, but if you do, you can't use it at the same time as Parry, as both are combat modes.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 26 septembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[manageri]

I banished parry from my conciousness a long time ago so the only thing I remember for sure is that it really really really really really really sucks ballsack, but I think the way it works is that if many enemies hit you at once, you only get to parry one of them. So if three enemies with just one attack per round manage to hit you roughly simultaneously, it's only one parry per round for you. Then there's the fact it does nothing against ranged attacks, nor does it help when you're knocked down etc, which all combines to the conclusion that it's the worst and buggiest piece of crap ever invented, and should never be relied upon as your main source of defense.

You seem only interested in having it protect you from 20s, which it doesn't do either (you don't get to roll parry at all when that happens), nor is there really any need for that since a few hits won't kill you and the concealment spells can help with that, as can mirror image IIRC. Also parry does not work at all while you're casting a spell, so you really have no reason to pick it up in your build that I can think of.

[I_Raps]

Winter90 wrote...

I_Raps wrote...

I had similar reservations about it, but at some point I just tried an experiment, which happened to be MOTB based.  I made my way through Shadow Mulsantir with Parry on, then redid it without Parry.  There was a considerable difference.  I think I might have posted about this sometime back.

Can you link to your post?

I tried finding the post yesterday right after the post you quoted, but turned up empty.  No big loss, though, since I don't think I provided any more detail than the post above.  Basically, I just walked through the streets not targeting anyone, just letting the character do his attacks of opportunity, ripostes, and automatic targeting (when not in Parry mode) and compared.  The trial with Parry on took considerably less damage - even though it took a lot longer, since the enemies lasted a lot longer.  I have no reservation whatsoever that Parry increases your defense considerably.

I have also switched to Parry mode in dire straits innumerable times with innumerable characters and have not been disappointed.

As for the rest - that discussion linked above by Arkalezth on the build site is a perfect example of the "builds bumped into this problem" that I mentioned.  You can't expect to leave it on all the time and (1) stop all attacks against you, and (2) kill all the attackers with ripostes.  That would be truly broken, and that is exactly what the designers intended to prevent.  As for it being useless, uh ....  it flat out stops attacks that have already hit you from doing any damage.  "But only three a round" ... uh, yeah, but you really should avoid getting yourself hit much more than that;  besides, it's only skill points.  

[I_Raps]

manageri wrote...

 Also parry does not work at all while you're casting a spell,

This is simply wrong.  In fact, as I mentioned above, it can work too well.   I won't get into the rest of your comment, because to each their own, but wrong is wrong.

[manageri]

I_Raps wrote...

manageri wrote...

 Also parry does not work at all while you're casting a spell,

This is simply wrong.  In fact, as I mentioned above, it can work too well.   I won't get into the rest of your comment, because to each their own, but wrong is wrong.

I just retested it and I sure can't get parry rolls while casting.

[Winter90]

manageri wrote...

I_Raps wrote...

manageri wrote...

 Also parry does not work at all while you're casting a spell,

This is simply wrong.  In fact, as I mentioned above, it can work too well.   I won't get into the rest of your comment, because to each their own, but wrong is wrong.

I just retested it and I sure can't get parry rolls while casting.

Well I tested against the faceless man and was able to get one parry per round while casting. However it was really unreliable as it didnt seem I always got the parry check. And it was also just one parry check per round.

Without casting anything I also found that the parry checks had no system, I could get one parry check, then all the sudden I would get 4.

So it seems it was implemented very clunky from the designers.

The way my test went kinda put me off of investing skill points into parry. It seemed like there was no system in the way the game gave me parry checks. It just looked like I got two now and then and didnt get one when I should...

I guess I hoped someone that has a lot of experience using parry was able to offer their insights.

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:51 .

[I_Raps]

manageri wrote...

I just retested it and I sure can't get parry rolls while casting.

I don't know what to tell you ....

... so I'll just show you:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


You tell me what's happening.

(That's a F7/W7, with Able Learner, Parry and Concentration maxed, DEX 19 (started 16), INT 18, Weapon Finesse, no Improved Parry, otherwise vanilla, with a +3 acidic adamantine rapier, zalantar light shield, mithral chainshirt, boots of striding + 4, belt of agility + 4, Anagry's Mindmaze (not relevant to the gnolls, but I screwed up and hit the Random Encounter button first time in, and I had to run out and get some better stuff to deal with the Elite Vampires and Lich that showed up), cloak of fortification +3, amulet of health, bracers of armor +4, ring of clear thought + 2, ring of resistance +3.  Pretty standard - or below - for his level.)

Modifié par I_Raps, 26 septembre 2013 - 10:38 .