39 réponses à ce sujet

[Winter90]

Arkalezth wrote...

Well, feel free to test it. The wiki is right sometimes, but not that much when bugs and other complicated stuff are concerned. You may want to read the pros/cons and the comments here.

I just saw that the wiki mentions an AC check after a failed Parry; I don't know if that's true, but I suppose it is. Anyway, if enemies only hit you on 20s and you have stuff like Mirror Image and Displacement on top of that (those are the opposite from "lame"), why are you so worried about defence? And what are HP for?

Like I said, I'd personally pass on Parry, but you seem interested in it, so if you have the skill points, go ahead and give it a try. BTW, I'm not sure if you intend to take CE too, but if you do, you can't use it at the same time as Parry, as both are combat modes.

Well as I said I dont like using "trick spells". Like mirror image and displacement, I think its much more fun to play a "no tricks, fair fight) kinda character.

Im not really worried about my defense, Im already almost unhittable and I have shadow shield and so on if I do get hit. I just looked into parry for optimization purposes. You know, making the character as good as it can be.
I was hoping that with my high AC a maxed parry skill would render me even more unhittable.

AND, I dont have anything to protect me from adamantine weapons if an enemy does have a high enough AB to match my AC.

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Winter90]

I_Raps wrote...

manageri wrote...

I just retested it and I sure can't get parry rolls while casting.

I don't know what to tell you ....

... so I'll just show you:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
You tell me what's happening.

(That's a F7/W7, with Able Learner, Parry and Concentration maxed, Weapon Finesse, no Improved Parry, otherwise vanilla, with a +3 acidic adamantine rapier, zalantar light shield, mithral chainshirt, boots of striding + 4, belt of agility + 4, Anagry's Mindmaze (not relevant to the gnolls, but I screwed up and hit the Random Encounter button first time in, and I had to run out and get some better stuff to deal with the Elite Vampires and Lich that showed up), cloak of fortification +3, amulet of health, bracers of armor +4, ring of clear thought + 2, ring of resistance +3.  Pretty standard - or below - for his level.)

That looks very promising. But I dont get why you get all those parry checks while casting when I only got one per round.

I did my test with a character who has 0 base score in parry. But I should get parry checks as normal right? I just did the test to see if I got parry checks as normal.

Parry mode works the same when you have 0 as opposed to 33 right? It just should say parry failed instead. Or is it that you have to have a certain amount of points to get parry checks as normal?


Is it possible you have installed a mod that makes it work better or something? Or is it SOZ maybe? I dont have SOZ installed..

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 10:27 .

[I_Raps]

Had an odd occurrence, but I figured it out.  Gnoll missed on a 20 - > my Mirror Image was up by then.

Winter90 wrote...

Is it possible you have installed a mod that makes it work better or something? Or is it SOZ maybe? I dont have SOZ installed..

As far as that goes - I have a ton of mods installed, but nothing that should affect game mechanics.  SOZ might make a difference - but any mechanics modifications should be on your system with the latest patch, whether you have the modules/blueprints/etc. or not.

I think your main issue is that you want it to be predictable, but this game doesn't lend itself to that.  An awful lot goes on that isn't ever reported out, even incorrectly.  I think there is a way to get a more verbose chat text, but even that isn't close to perfect.  Certainly, none of the descriptions of Parry - ingame, wiki, manual or otherwise - gives the full true story.

Modifié par I_Raps, 26 septembre 2013 - 10:49 .

[Arkalezth]

Winter90 wrote...
I dont get why you get all those parry checks while casting when I only got one per round.

How many attacks per round do you have? One?

All things considered, I suppose that IN THIS CASE (i.e. a caster) Parry is a decent option if you have skill points to spare and are not using a different combat mode, such as Expertise. I wouldn't bother with Skill Focus or any other feats, though.

[Winter90]

Arkalezth wrote...

Winter90 wrote...
I dont get why you get all those parry checks while casting when I only got one per round.

How many attacks per round do you have? One?

All things considered, I suppose that IN THIS CASE (i.e. a caster) Parry is a decent option if you have skill points to spare and are not using a different combat mode, such as Expertise. I wouldn't bother with Skill Focus or any other feats, though.

No I did the test with my last character against the faceless man at the end of motb. He has 5 attacks per round. I was thinking parry mode while casting ONLY. And switch to power attack when going melee.

I also had another thought assuming that parry actually works the way I_raps was able to make it work. My idea was to get persistent spell so I can persist Death Armor, if Im lucky, even when I parry, an enemy will get registered a "hit" and be dealt death armor damage(or elemental Shield), just a theory at the moment though.

[manageri]

I_Raps wrote...

I don't know what to tell you ....

... so I'll just show you:

You tell me what's happening.

What's happening is exactly what I said - no parry rolls are occurring while your character is casting (as in between the lines 'is casting' and 'casts').

[Winter90]

I_Raps wrote...

Had an odd occurrence, but I figured it out.  Gnoll missed on a 20 - > my Mirror Image was up by then.

Winter90 wrote...

Is it possible you have installed a mod that makes it work better or something? Or is it SOZ maybe? I dont have SOZ installed..

As far as that goes - I have a ton of mods installed, but nothing that should affect game mechanics.  SOZ might make a difference - but any mechanics modifications should be on your system with the latest patch, whether you have the modules/blueprints/etc. or not.

I think your main issue is that you want it to be predictable, but this game doesn't lend itself to that.  An awful lot goes on that isn't ever reported out, even incorrectly.  I think there is a way to get a more verbose chat text, but even that isn't close to perfect.  Certainly, none of the descriptions of Parry - ingame, wiki, manual or otherwise - gives the full true story.

Well I dont need to predictable. But I need the game to give me the set amount of parries in a given round. I cant relie on something that may or may not work in a given round. I just tried a test again with the faceless man, I still get one parry per round. And it seems I get to when not casting. I dont understand why I dont get the amount of parries Im supposed to get... (One per attack I have, or one per flurry at least / 3)

[I_Raps]

manageri wrote...


What's happening is exactly what I said - no parry rolls are occurring while your character is casting (as in between the lines 'is casting' and 'casts').

Baloney.  All the spells were queued up on the Action Queue where you see the next three spells.  They all were cast exactly when the computer said they should be, one per round, with Parries in between.  In fact, he has just successfully parried an attack after casting Mirror Image while Blades of Fire is waiting to come up.  Everybody can see for themselves.

Modifié par I_Raps, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:22 .

[Arkalezth]

Persistent Spell is a great feat, but Death Armour does crappy damage. You're better off using that level 8 slot for something else.

[Winter90]

I_Raps wrote...

manageri wrote...


What's happening is exactly what I said - no parry rolls are occurring while your character is casting (as in between the lines 'is casting' and 'casts').

Baloney.  All the spells were queued up on the Action Queue where you see the next three spells.  They all were cast exactly when the computer said they should be, one per round, with Parries in between.  In fact, he has just successfully parried an attack after casting Mirror Image while Blades of Fire is waiting to come up.  Everybody can see for themselves.

Im with you on this one I_raps, however, it does seem that you dont get parry rolls against attack of opportunity(which occurs when you cast)  which is somewhat unfortunate seeing as the aoo at the moment of casting is when one needs it the most.

[manageri]

I_Raps wrote...

Baloney.  All the spells were queued up on the Action Queue where you see the next three spells.  They all were cast exactly when the computer said they should be, one per round, with Parries in between.  Everybody can see for themselves.

Well if you thought by "while casting" I meant "between casts during the empty time in the round" then you're correct. But I didn't. So you aren't. You can't parry WHILE casting, period.

[Winter90]

Arkalezth wrote...

Persistent Spell is a great feat, but Death Armour does crappy damage. You're better off using that level 8 slot for something else.

I agree, it does crappy damage.. But if it triggers on a parry I'd say its worth it, seeing as at the time I have persistent spell and a parry score thats actually high enough to do some good, I will have 6-7 level 8 spells to use anyway(as well as the same amount of level 6,7,9 spells.

I would rather use elemental shield, but that spell cant be persisted, and only last 6 sec per level.. even extended at level 20 it only lasts 4 minutes.. Which will rapidly use up level 5 spell slots.

If Death Armor doesnt trigger on a parry I wont use it anyway. Im not even sure if I will go for parry yet..

Modifié par Winter90, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:33 .

[manageri]

Pretty sure you won't get death armor damage on a parry.

[Winter90]

Okay, I just did another test against a barrow guardian. I was able to get 4 parries per round while not casting. And I got 2 in a round I was casting, and it all happened consistently.

It does seem like, at least in my game, that you dont get parry checks while casting a spell, but you do get parries in the same round as your casting..

Why I only got one parry check in a casting round(and two if not casting) against the faceless man I dont know. It could be that it seems like the FM gets 4 attack rolls at the same time( like in a flurry) and you only get a roll against one attack in a flurry.. It seems like...

It looks like parry is less usefull against opponents who attack in "flurries" then.

Seeing as how I got 4 parries against the barrow guardian, and only two against the FM..

Modifié par Winter90, 27 septembre 2013 - 12:24 .

[Arkalezth]

manageri wrote...

Pretty sure you won't get death armor damage on a parry.

Yeah, that too, but even then, 1d4+5 at level 15 (the earliest you can persist it, and likely even later with your character) is not even a scratch. On the other hand, you could be casting an Horrid Wilting or whatever instead.