285 réponses à ce sujet

[Azaron Nightblade]

Angrywolves wrote...

" Rolls eyes at niche romance and player fetishes talk"
Bioware has certainly violated that " stuff " in DAI.
Anything ANY fan might remotely want is promised in DAI.
With sympathy to Berinde that they stated that bombast and actually seemed to believe it.
That was such pretentious bravo sierra it was laughable.
Whether it might have been a Wynne romance or will be a Cullen romance is / was up to Gaider.
I'm sure he felt Wynne was too old and it would be inappropriate for her to be involved in a romance with a much younger warden.
Cullen has a small but devoted fanbase so he's in.
shrugs.

I always figured that she's not interested in a romance, rather than her being "too old" - even though she herself seems to believe that, considering how often she comments on her age.
Wynne was written as more of a mother figure to Warden and the rest of the party IMO, rather than it being Gaider's opinion that it's "icky" to get involved with someone much older.
Every character has a role to play in a story, and Wynne's wasn't that of the hero's paramour.

[sandalisthemaker]

AutumnWitch wrote...

For the record, before I say what I am going to say, I have not once posted on BSN who I thought should or should not be romance-able “specifically” so I am not saying this out of being overly defensive about such things. I personally have always just gone by the philosophy "I'm just happy we have the ability to have a F/F romance at all". I also have stated on here before that I highly respect David's opinions on many things.

However, I don't understand why David as the head writer for the DA series needs to come on here and basically make fun of or even insult potential DAI customers. 

Meh.

Everyone makes fun of the romance fans.
I'm not offended, though.

[Azaron Nightblade]

AutumnWitch wrote...

However, I don't understand why David as the head writer for the DA series needs to come on here and basically make fun of or even insult potential DAI customers. I am not saying that he or anyone else should go out of their way to make DAI a game for "all people" or even to particularly "kiss the customer's arse" so to speak. But why so snarky? People get very emotional about these games because YOU as writers have made it very personal experience for them. That is precisely why so many of us like DA games compared to other mindless "kill, stab, kill, slice, kill" games. But David's above quote seems to me to be at least a passive/aggressive, if not actually direct, way of telling potential customers that they are somehow bad or stupid for being so emotionally invested in a product that has been designed to do that very thing !?!

I didn't get the impression that he was making fun of people for liking Leliana too much, or Morrigan, or any of the other existing LI's.
What I got from it was him saying that it's silly that a lot of people will be angry when it somehow turns out that Cassandra* isn't a romance option after all when the game goes live - especially when it was never promised a certain companion was going to be a love interest.

* Cassandra just being an example, any other companion can be used there.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 27 septembre 2013 - 01:10 .

[AutumnWitch]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

For the record, before I say what I am going to say, I have not once posted on BSN who I thought should or should not be romance-able “specifically” so I am not saying this out of being overly defensive about such things. I personally have always just gone by the philosophy "I'm just happy we have the ability to have a F/F romance at all". I also have stated on here before that I highly respect David's opinions on many things.

However, I don't understand why David as the head writer for the DA series needs to come on here and basically make fun of or even insult potential DAI customers. 

Meh.

Everyone makes fun of the romance fans.
I'm not offended, though.

I agree but I am not employed by BW & trying to get us to buy a product XD I am curious strickly out of a business POV as I own two businesses myself.

[AutumnWitch]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

However, I don't understand why David as the head writer for the DA series needs to come on here and basically make fun of or even insult potential DAI customers. I am not saying that he or anyone else should go out of their way to make DAI a game for "all people" or even to particularly "kiss the customer's arse" so to speak. But why so snarky? People get very emotional about these games because YOU as writers have made it very personal experience for them. That is precisely why so many of us like DA games compared to other mindless "kill, stab, kill, slice, kill" games. But David's above quote seems to me to be at least a passive/aggressive, if not actually direct, way of telling potential customers that they are somehow bad or stupid for being so emotionally invested in a product that has been designed to do that very thing !?!

I didn't get the impression that he was making fun of people for liking Leliana too much, or Morrigan, or any of the other existing LI's.
What I got from it was him saying that it's silly that a lot of people will be angry when it somehow turns out that Cassandra* isn't a romance option after all when the game goes live - especially when it was never promised a certain companion was going to be a love interest.

* Cassandra just being an example, any other companion can be used there.

I completley understand but still question the tone from him as opposed to us as fans, He is a "big wig" there and I just found it amazing that he was so willing to put down potential customers. Thats all, i probably agree with what he was saying, just not how he said it.

[BlueMagitek]

Speaking from my experience, so it can very well be wrong :

Ya'll kinda go crazy about it though. It's one thing to appreciate a feature, it's quite another for a forum to tear itself apart over it, like what happened over in ME 3.

Heck, even when the information on DA:I was minimum there were topics like "We need a Female Qunari -- KOSSITH -- LI!" and "Cullen for LI!" and "Ideal S/S romances?!". And so on.

It's totally cool to like the feature, I can dig that, but when you let it overshadow everything else - the only thing that possibly came close in terms of game features were the class specializations. And then thanks to the usual suspects, most of the plot based topics turn into endless Mage/Templar or Chantry/Dalish/Qunari topics. It's rather tiring.

[sandalisthemaker]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Speaking from my experience, so it can very well be wrong :

Ya'll kinda go crazy about it though. It's one thing to appreciate a feature, it's quite another for a forum to tear itself apart over it, like what happened over in ME 3.

Heck, even when the information on DA:I was minimum there were topics like "We need a Female Qunari -- KOSSITH -- LI!" and "Cullen for LI!" and "Ideal S/S romances?!". And so on.

It's totally cool to like the feature, I can dig that, but when you let it overshadow everything else - the only thing that possibly came close in terms of game features were the class specializations. And then thanks to the usual suspects, most of the plot based topics turn into endless Mage/Templar or Chantry/Dalish/Qunari topics. It's rather tiring.

Romances, to the extent that they are featured in Bioware games, are pretty unique. Especially in regards to S/S romances. So of course that feature is going to attract a lot of focus on the forums. Sure, some people can be borderline psycho, but you get those types with anything really.  Romace fans are villified on the BSN. 

[BlueMagitek]

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Romances, to the extent that they are featured in Bioware games, are pretty unique. Especially in regards to S/S romances. So of course that feature is going to attract a lot of focus on the forums. Sure, some people can be borderline psycho, but you get those types with anything really.  Romace fans are villified on the BSN.

Romance fans flock to BSN and they're villified when they get a forum shut down due to infighting. 
There's also far too much emphasis put on it, and the first question when you get any information on an LI should not be "Is it romanceable?". :/

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Why is the mere existence of
threads like that a problem, so long as they aren't breaking the forum
rules?  I get that not everybody is interested in that stuff, but my
point is simply that fervor in and of itself shouldn't be a problem
unless that fervor is actually causing people to be rude, aggresive, or
if they are spamming (like the Tali thread in days of yore).  In that
case, just ban the people who are breaking the rules and let the polite
(albeit potentially overly enthusiastic) people carry on.

You are missing the next statement, which explains that the over saturation was a bad thing.
And you also miss that my response was to AutumnWitch; she was wondering why DG's humor was rather dry in this topic. ~_^

[Angrywolves]

Your opinion nightblade.
Would have shown Gaider wouldn't allow himself to be limited by conventional wisdom.
shrugs.
Might get in trouble for saying this...
2013 the year of living dangerously .
I don't believe Gaider likes fans.
I think the toxic comments show it.
In Bioware 's defense some fans have gone too far.
Jenifer Hepler, Jessica Chobot, ME3 's end, various other criticism .
They feel they've been mistreated by the fans and it's made them insular and suspicious .
I think also, and you see some of this in Casey Hudson's defense of ME3, they really don't see themselves as a business imo.
They see themselves as artists.
Being above the mundane aspects of a business .
Supply and demand, the customer is always right, stuff like that.
I think they've been forced by EA to bend somewhat because they've been told DAI has to be a success or else.
Bioware has to sell DAI, get all the DA fans, get other rpg fans like those of Skyrim and Dragons Dogma to take a look at DAI.

[Angrywolves]

But underneath I still think the art house mentality is there.

[Fast Jimmy]

Romances, to the extent that they are featured in Bioware games, are pretty unique. Especially in regards to S/S romances. So of course that feature is going to attract a lot of focus on the forums. Sure, some people can be borderline psycho, but you get those types with anything really. Romace fans are villified on the BSN.

My personal opinion is that romances are an added feature to see extra content to a character you have gotten to know and really like.

When people speculate, hype up and even demand this romance content for some characters who we haven't even seen in a game, let alone had a conversation with, it seems like a creepy hybrid of teen idol fan obsession coupled with some form of stalker behavior. Speculating on romancing characters you have barely seen in a few random concept art pics is putting that feature, of getting extra content for a character you've gotten to know, at a level that comes off to me as weird.

Cullen and Varric might be exceptions to that in DA:I, but I still find it odd that romance is the first thing on people's minds when characters get introduced.

[lady_v23]

I want a female version of Oghren!

I'm serious. I want someone my inquisitor can drunkenly sing off tune with and have awesome dates where they go and kill stuff. Preferably ogres.

[BlueMagitek]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I didn't miss that your reply wasn't directly to me, but since I almost completely agree with AutumnWitch, responding seemed perfectly reasonable.  And I also didn't miss that you are saying the over saturation of romance talk is bad.  I'm disagreeing with you.  If literally the *only* thing a fan or a group of fans cares about is romance and that's all they want to talk about, it's not bad unless it's causing them to break the rules or be aggresive to each other or the rest of the forum.  I get that other forumites might get sick of the romance threads, but they don't have to read them.  I also get that devs who put a lot of effort into the game might get frustrated that many fans fixate on romances over all the other content the dev feels is high quality and worth paying attetion to, but I can also garantee that somewhere out there fans are talking about something else besides romances.  There are multiple threads on here daily about game mechanics, lore, in-game moral challenges, character building, art design, etc. etc.  If people (devs, fans, or whoever) don't want to deal with romance "saturation" they can seek out or start conversations that do interest them.  I find parts of the enthusiasm distasteful myself, but since I've also been in such groups in the past (the Garrus fandom in particular) I fail to see how the mere presence of such enthusiasm should evoke a "kill it with fire!" response.     

And you're completely free to disagree!

I should point out that, in general, the other threads don't involve threatening writers over fictional romances.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Angrywolves wrote...

I think they've been forced by EA to bend somewhat because they've been told DAI has to be a success or else.
Bioware has to sell DAI, get all the DA fans, get other rpg fans like those of Skyrim and Dragons Dogma to take a look at DAI.

you know its possible for bioware to do things because bioware wants to do them and not because they've had their hand forced, right

people who work on games generally want their own games to succeed. especially people who work on games of the scale that bioware does. it doesn't require outside pressure.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:10 .

[azarhal]

AutumnWitch wrote...

I completley understand but still question the tone from him as opposed to us as fans, He is a "big wig" there and I just found it amazing that he was so willing to put down potential customers. Thats all, i probably agree with what he was saying, just not how he said it.

Gaider is always snarky, more so since he dropped smoking.

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Romances, to the extent that they are featured in Bioware games, are pretty unique. Especially in regards to S/S romances. So of course that feature is going to attract a lot of focus on the forums. Sure, some people can be borderline psycho, but you get those types with anything really. Romace fans are villified on the BSN.

My personal opinion is that romances are an added feature to see extra content to a character you have gotten to know and really like.

When people speculate, hype up and even demand this romance content for some characters who we haven't even seen in a game, let alone had a conversation with, it seems like a creepy hybrid of teen idol fan obsession coupled with some form of stalker behavior. Speculating on romancing characters you have barely seen in a few random concept art pics is putting that feature, of getting extra content for a character you've gotten to know, at a level that comes off to me as weird.

Cullen and Varric might be exceptions to that in DA:I, but I still find it odd that romance is the first thing on people's minds when characters get introduced.

Different tastes and all that.  

I guess it must boggle your mind to think that there are people who *only* play DA because of the romances, and that little else about the games interest them. I personally know a few of them, and I don't think they are strange or somehow any lesser for it.

I am a huge fan of the romance content, particularly the S/S content. The fact that DA includes it is part of what makes it my favorite fantasy RPG series. 
People who are interested in romance content are going to speculate about which companions are going to be LI's.  Just like people speculate on a whole host of other things. 

It's just easy to pick on romance fans because the subject lends itself to painting people as  being "creepy" "fetishistic" etc.  The fact that it can get taken to such extremes only feeds the stereotype.  
It is what it is.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:24 .

[Angrywolves]

There are lots of games that flopped where the companies wanted to succeed.
The EA comment had more to Bioware's art house mentality .
I think they believe they're artists .
Artists believe they're above the fray.
The game is like a canvass , it should sell itself to discerning connoisseurs with little effort from Bioware outside of production.
I think adding what fans wanted, multiple origins and the Qunari, when they originally didn't intend to have those shows how far they're having to extend themselves.

[Bionuts]

The point is that even if some people only play DA games for the romances, doesn't mean Bioware is catering to those people. They're trying to fit in many different things for a whole experience. Romance is a good feature, but a brownie after dinner. It's nothing more.

I like the romances as much as anyone else, but I'd rather the game be great as a whole.

Once a year, I go to Golden Corral to eat their brownies.

[Angrywolves]

Maybe and maybe not.
Are we fans or are we customers ?
Which is it ?
I can see how Bioware can see the fans as nuisances .
How many of us have made an ill timed comment in a thread and got a stare down from a developer, hint Bioware considers all it's employees that can moderate as developers as far as the BSN is concerned. But to continue, you get that stare down and don't do that again speech and yes it happened to me as well.
I don't think Bioware equates fans with customers , although they should.
The fans are considered nuisances.