279 réponses à ce sujet

[adayaday]

I am under the impression that when you say happy ending you think of MEHEM,whice does indeed feel off and is limited.
But this is due to lack of resources the modders have.
None of your points prevents a story from having a proper,meaning full,dramatic,diverse, conclusion to the story.
You Seem to be locked on on what we have rather then what could have been.

[Massa FX]

An optional happy ending wouldn't have hurt the franchise. The ability to make decisions that led to happy ending could have made a huge difference in player reaction to the ending. I wish the happy ending could have been based on legacy player actions and choices.... from ME1 to ME3.

But it wasn't what BW wanted.

Typed on cell phone. Please forgive poor grammar and stilted sentences. 

Modifié par Massa FX, 25 septembre 2013 - 02:36 .

[Jagri]

The travesty here is the unoriginal emo Neo Matrix ending(s) with elements ripped straight from the original Dues Ex game. Cerberus cyber space Jebus sacrificed himself for the sins of all organics in order to destroy, combine, or control the Reapers. This all leading to the point where one has to jump into the Hero Sacrifice Machine in order to realistically save the galaxy from the Reapers in a awe inspiring and inspirational moment which someone at the end thinks is so very deep... Woooooh! Hero dies! So deep! Man wooow. Neo Matrix! He died for our us man.

This crap shouldn't even be fit to grace the back of a cereal box...

Modifié par Jagri, 25 septembre 2013 - 03:08 .

[Degrees1991]

I thought Mass Effect was about choice letting us have a choice of a happy ending wouldn't have hurt. Shepard had to die so be it a least make his death be awarding. A really bitter ending but that was last year can't believe people still make threads hating or defending it.

[jtav]

I think there does have to be a price, and it has to be something the player will feel and not just faceless casualties. The problem is that the death of synthetics doesn't feel like a logical consequence. Though I disagree that there's no way to keep your honor intact.

[AndyAK79]

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

[JamesFaith]

Inb4iakus

I agree that some pure happy-ending would destroy ending choices.

There had to be some bitter flaw in them to be balanced.

[Pressedcat]

KaiserShep wrote...

rashie wrote...

Why can't there be both sad and happy endings? Just wondering where this thought that you can't do both is coming from.

I keep coming back to the suicide mission dynamic, and while it's a much smaller scale, and more simplified concept, it's a fair example of how to vary your ending. You can have teammates die, or get everyone out alive. You can determine which outcome is the most satisfactory to you. Heck, if you really like the grim fail ending, you can get that too.

The problem with the suicide mission is the only way to vary your ending is to deliberately make sub-optimal choices. Sure you can get teammates killed, but to do so you either have to skip content, avoid using the persuasion mechanic, or make foolish choices when it comes time to assign tasks. People can die, but at least for me, in order for them to do so I'd have to go out of my way and meta-game to get those deaths.

The same problem would occur if there were both happy and sad endings to ME3. The happy ending would have to be the optimal ending (anything else would not make sense), so in order to achieve anything but the happy ending, one would have to play sub-optimally. For a seasoned gamer used to the signposting in these types of games, these sub-optimal choices would have to be made consciously. Some would be ok with this, for others to have to do so would be jarring. Thus you are left with either failing to achieve the happy ending on your first playthrough because you unwittingly made the 'wrong' decissions (again something some would be ok with, whilst others might feel that they made choices due to rp and are therefore being punished), or else only ever experiencing less optimal endings in subsequent playthroughs by deliberately making those choices one knows to have negative consequences.

If instead the ending was to offer several equally achievable final choices, one of which was 'happy' and the others all 'gritty' or 'dark', then again it would be somewhat of a false choice: 'cake or death'. Sure you could choose 'grim', but your Shepard would have to be an idiot to do so when offered with the 'happy' choice.

The problem is that while consequences to decisions in Mass Effect continue to be binary (good or bad), and very apparently so, BioWare will continue to offer final choices that are either of the Suicide Mission type - failure only through (often deliberate) sub-optimal decisions - or else choices such as occurred at the end of ME3 - where you are presented with a choice between several options that feel slightly divorced from the consequences of all that has gone before. If trying to go for the latter type of choice, in order for the decision to be difficult, all the options need to be balance in shades of light and dark.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 25 septembre 2013 - 03:29 .

[AcidwireX]

AndyAK79 wrote...

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

You do know that the type of person who mods MEHEM into their game tends to be the kind of person who doesn't give a **** about Bioware and their copyright agreements anymore, right?

There is no way in hell a happier ending would have ruined ME 3. It might have bummed some people out who clearly have no idea how to tell a story, but its not possible for it to have done nearly as much damage as the current endings have to the franchise. I would not be surprised if ME 4 becomes one of the most pirated games made simply because people won't want to waste money on it.

You seem offended by the fact that people use MEHEM. For that, I think I'll load up ME 3 for the first time in half a year just to rustle your jimmies more.

[shodiswe]

AndyAK79 wrote...

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

Noone is selling any material and the materials used seems to come from the ingame resources. You need the game for it to be worth anything. Also, it's not affecting multiplayer or any other players experience.

Don't really care, I never used MEHEM, Control was good enough for me, Synthesis worked aswell. I still wish the endgame had been better and the presentation better. I foudn Priority earth -> end  Very lacking for Mass Effect endgame.

[rekn2]

AndyAK79 wrote...

 I loved the ending to Mass Effect 3, but it's clear that a lot of people didn't. In spite of my own feelings  I have to

idk why people try and bring a legit argument to this thread.


think about it. how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

[KaiserShep]

AndyAK79 wrote...

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

This isn't an effective argument against MEHEM. If you said something like it doesn't fit the tone, or it's too obvious as a collage of bits from the Mass Effect trilogy to coat over the real ending, then that I could understand. For people who paid for the game, and modify the game for their own personal enjoyment, and pass it on to others who also bought the game (for zero payment), the whole contractual obligation stuff is not going to matter.

[angol fear]

rekn2 wrote...

how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

I liked the original ending and as literature teacher, cinema critic and writer, I think I've got education.

[Mathias]

AndyAK79 wrote...

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

Haven't heard of anyone getting into trouble for downloading MEHEM, and regardless Bioware breached my trust so I could care less if it did.

[Mathias]

angol fear wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

I liked the original ending and as literature teacher, cinema critic and writer, I think I've got education.

There are boneheaded doctors, politicians, professors, scientists, etc etc. Even though that had to get an education to receive their title, that doesn't mean they got a "good" one. Just saying.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:08 .

[Kais Endac]

You leave the forums for a year and when you come back people are still talking about the endings, you have to admit though Bioware achieved their 'lots of speculation'

Ultimately these endings will always be a polarizing issue, the endings as they are please alot of people but annoy just as many as they please. The endings are balanced with no perfect ending or 'happy' ending instead relying on the players interpretation of what their 'good' ending is.

I'm not a person that deeply analyses games or notices plotholes (subtle and sometimes blatant) so those aspects of the endings (original and extended) never bothered me. I'm also not adverse to dark or bittersweet endings (even if my sig is the MEHEEM mod)

Choice also plays into this problem, in a linear game you nearly always know what your getting into, when choice is added (some) people expect to have a good and bad ending.

What was disappointing for me was things like -
1.War assets not being used outside of number crunching
2.state of galaxy after the war not really expanded on outside of small narration
3.I was kind of disappointed with what felt like the forced sacrifice of EDI and the Geth in Destroy to balance out Shepard living -----> even had they survived the bittersweet element would have remained (for me at least) I had by this point lost Mordin,Legion,Thane,billions of people were dead and every major world ravaged by the reapers (again plays into the happy ending thing, but is only a minor disappointment for me)
4. finally the rubble scene ---- Yes Shepard is alive but those three seconds were more appropriate as a cliffhanger to another game not the final moments of the end game of a trilogy.

Overall I'm content with the endings they could have been better and will always be somewhat of a disappointment with me but they do not detract form the enjoyable 97% of the game (would have been 98% but I hate Kai Leng)

Edit: I should add that I did like the choices presented in the final moments
Control is my favorite - it is both good and evil depending on your sheps alignment, Does your Shepard choose it because he wants to help the Galaxy and make it a safer place. Or does he/she choose it to force his will upon the galaxy, or because he knows better what the galaxy needs. 

Synthesis is somewhat iffy in my opinion given that my moral compass tells me that its forcing change on the entire galaxy, But its still a valid choice IMO.

Destroy a no brainer really - it does destroy the reapers but with the downside of killing the Geth/EDI its up to the player to decide if synthetics are actually 'alive' and whether its worth the cost.

Modifié par Kais Endac, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:14 .

[Dubozz]

Are you kidding OP? How many games do you know were ruined by happy endings? Ending killed the game. Only disappointment and speculations left.

[Azaron Nightblade]

I don't think a happy ending would've cancelled out all the pain and suffering of the war against the Reapers.
Mordin would still be dead, as would Thane and Anderson - along with all the others that died across the whole series, either by your choice or because it was meant to be.

I also strongly disagree that everyone would've chosen the happy ending for their Shepards.
By that very logic the OP himself is claiming that at heart he would've chosen the happy ending despite advocating how awesome the current endings are.

The whole arguement that people on the BSN want everyone to rise from the dead sounds like a bunch of hyperbole to justify why his own opinion is the only right one. 
It's the first time I've seen it mentioned, and I agree it's pretty silly - Mass Effect is not Doctor Who where most events with a lot of casualties always get "undone".
As far as I know most of the people wanting a happy ending wanted one of the endings to show Shepard reunited with his crew and love interest - not every Reaper ravaged world restored and everyone brought back from the dead to sit in a circle and sing kumbaya.

I think the endings were cheapened by laziness (or pressure) and have managed to kill replayability for a lot of people in the process.
Different colored explosions in otherwise pretty much the same endings are not a great motivator.
Heck, I'd have been happier with a much shorter but unique ending scene and a text based epilogue like DAO's than the current ME3 endings.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[jontepwn]

What if I wanted a happy ending? I didn't spend hundreds of hours over three games just to bum me the hell out at the end.

I mean it's not like I can't handle sad endings but it just wasn't what I wanted from Mass Effect. Why did I go through three games of establishing friendships and romances when I'm just gonna drop dead at the end? Why even go through them at all?
No, I have to kill myself because a genocidal apparition said so. Yes. So victorious. So uplifting. 

That's the problem with these endings, if you analyse them too much it makes everything seem meaningless. When it comes down to it though I always shoot the tube.

[GimmeDaGun]

rekn2 wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

 I loved the ending to Mass Effect 3, but it's clear that a lot of people didn't. In spite of my own feelings  I have to

idk why people try and bring a legit argument to this thread.


think about it. how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

Here's an answer for you: I'm a MDr and I like the ME3 endings. 

[GimmeDaGun]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

angol fear wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

I liked the original ending and as literature teacher, cinema critic and writer, I think I've got education.

There are boneheaded doctors, politicians, professors, scientists, etc etc. Even though that had to get an education to receive their title, that doesn't mean they got a "good" one. Just saying.

So liking something you do not, makes me a bad doctor. You make a compelling argument, mister. 

[katamuro]

Dubozz wrote...

Are you kidding OP? How many games do you know were ruined by happy endings? Ending killed the game. Only disappointment and speculations left.

I second this, I was quite happy with the game(excluding those stupid dream sequences they were still stupid) until the last 10 minutes or so. I could not believe that their best plan was to leg it and hope for the best. Even in the premission thing where we were walking about the london talking to squadmates and random people there was still hope. The ending no matter which one you chose worked better than an axe of an executioner. There should have been a way for shepard to survive, or to at least die in a blaze of glory fighting until the last with Harbinger. Instead we got a sequence of events that showed shepard give up, accept the reasoning of a previously unknown character and choose between three equallty weird ways to screw up the universe. Choice between genocide, raping the whole universe or becoming what you fought against is not a theme ME universe offered. All through the games we got choices of doing stuff the way we wanted. For example in Tali's trial we could reveal the evidence, we could go for paragon option or for renegade option, and all of them would have given you the desired result. 

In the end we did "beat" the reapers but all of the ways to achieve that were equally unsavoury.

[AndyAK79]

rekn2 wrote...

idk why people try and bring a legit argument to this thread.


think about it. how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

You are right, of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a complete moron.

Of course, I do hold a 1st class honours degree in two subjects as well as a post-grad with the highest possible academic outcomes, but other than that I'm hardly educated at all. I honestly don't know how I walk and chew gum at the same time.

And all the other educated people who disagree with you (whom I would like to thank for popping your head over the metaphorical parapet) are clearly idiots. Just idiots.

P.S. You really should start sentences with a capital letter. Most education systems teach this in the first couple of years.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:34 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

angol fear wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

I liked the original ending and as literature teacher, cinema critic and writer, I think I've got education.

There are boneheaded doctors, politicians, professors, scientists, etc etc. Even though that had to get an education to receive their title, that doesn't mean they got a "good" one. Just saying.

So liking something you do not, makes me a bad doctor. You make a compelling argument, mister. 

Education and taste are two entirely different things.
Take soccer for example, plenty of lawyers and doctors like it just as much as dock and factory workers do - all of them are cheering for their favorite teams and players.
There are IT people that play videogames hardcore, and there those that utterly despise games and would never touch them.
"Different people different strokes" goes the saying, right?