279 réponses à ce sujet

[AcidwireX]

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

[GimmeDaGun]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

angol fear wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

how educated is some one who likes something as flawed as me3's endings?

I liked the original ending and as literature teacher, cinema critic and writer, I think I've got education.

There are boneheaded doctors, politicians, professors, scientists, etc etc. Even though that had to get an education to receive their title, that doesn't mean they got a "good" one. Just saying.

So liking something you do not, makes me a bad doctor. You make a compelling argument, mister. 

Education and taste are two entirely different things.
Take soccer for example, plenty of lawyers and doctors like it just as much as dock and factory workers do - all of them are cheering for their favorite teams and players.
There are IT people that play videogames hardcore, and there those that utterly despise games and would never touch them.
"Different people different strokes" goes the saying, right? 

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say in a less serious manner. 

[GimmeDaGun]

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

Well, since I'm an invasive cardiologist in real life, I can't say that I'm a dock-worker just to please your doubts. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:37 .

[AndyAK79]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Education and taste are two entirely different things.
Take soccer for example, plenty of lawyers and doctors like it just as much as dock and factory workers do - all of them are cheering for their favorite teams and players.
There are IT people that play videogames hardcore, and there those that utterly despise games and would never touch them.
"Different people different strokes" goes the saying, right? 

Never were truer words spoken. But rekn2 wasn't criticising my taste (at least not directly), he was criticising my education.

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

What, because doctors and teachers don't really exist? Yet people are perfectly content to believe in dock workers... 

I'm quite content to believe that anyone on this forum is who they say they are, since generally speaking I don't see why they would feel the need to lie. I am a teacher, by the way.

The only person I don't believe is you, because I'm fairly sure that Mr. Obama can get the letters in 'etc'. the right way round. Now can we all stop arguing about who we are and how clever we are and GET BACK ON TOPIC!!!

Modifié par AndyAK79, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[Kais Endac]

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

Video Games are not limited to one specific audience, I (amazingly enough) have a degree in History I'm (most) likely less intelligent that lots of people on bsn that don't have a degree. Why doubt those that state they are a Doctor/Teacher etc. They have nothing to gain from it and they are here because like others on BSN they like/dislike parts of Bioware games and want to share with other fans.

[AcidwireX]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

Well, since I'm an invasive cardiologist in real life, I can't say that I'm a dock-worker just to please your doubts. 

The point is that is has no merit on the internet. Its the same reason why its irritating watching someone start a thread on other boards with the phrase 'As a girl...'

It doesn't really matter what you are offline. You can't prove it to anyone for sure and chances are no one would believe you anyway. The only thing that matters is the strength of your arguement, not the title in which you attach to yourself in hopes that it will give yourself more validity.

(This isn't directed at you, just so you know.)

Modifié par AcidwireX, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:44 .

[KaiserShep]

As president of the internet, I call shenanigans on your assertions.

[Baihu1983]

Those that worked hard enough over 3 games should have been able to do what they set out to in ME1.

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

1. It wouldn't fit with the tone of the game

Arguments that the tone of the game itself is at fault hold no weight here. The arrival of the Reapers has to be devastating, or they would have been a severe let down after two games spent building them up as the ultimate threat. If the third game didn't feature the Reaper arrival then it would have been a real let down altogether. Therefore the tone of the game had to be desperate and bleak. An ending were Shepard walked off into the sunset and everyone somehow sprang back to life would betray the tone of the game entirely.

Why on Earth are you tying in Shepard's survival to "everyone somehow sprang back to life"  That's not a strawman, that's a straw army!

Try again, this time explaining why Shepard's clear survival would have been somehow themativcally wrong.

2. It would not properly end Shepard's story.

Contrary to many arguments, Shepard does not necessarilly die at the end of the story; in two possible endings he either lives on as a reaper consciousness or is shown to be (barely) alive in the final scene. But the downbeat endings bring Shepard's story to a powerful close. No ending in which Shepard gets up and dusts himself off is going to have anything near the same emotional impact, nor is the story going to feel properly 'over'.

Both those situations require headcnaon.  In all the endings where Shepard dies, it is clear and unambiguous.  SHepard's "survival are deliberately much more so.

Try again explaining why it' okay for Shepard's death to be clear, but Shepard's life not.

3. It would eliminate the element of choice.

A lot of people seem to get hung up on about the element of choice in Mass Effect games, and I have seen many, many posts claiming that after all their hard work over three games they had the right to choose a happy ending. But this is ridiculous because you don't truly choose a happy ending.

Consider the following scenario; You discover a stick of dynamite in the street. You have only two choices.

A) Leave it alone.
Light it and stick it in your eye.

Not much of a choice is it? An obvious choice isn 't really a choice at all, because you are always going to go for the choice with the best outcome. In the case of Mass Effect 3, nobody who has put in all that time and effort is going to look at the happy option and say, "No, you're okay Bioware, I'm going to kill off my Shepard and wipe out the Geth." If the happy ending was available everyone would choose it, and that isn't really a choice at all.

For homework, I suggest studying up on Dragon Age: Origins and showing a much better example of morally ambiguous endings

4. The ending would lack drama.

The other option is, of course, to have a set of happy endings to choose from. But really, how dramatic is this ever going to be? Do you really want to end a series of games this involving with a meaningless set of choices between, say, Shepard becoming an admiral OR Shepard retiring to a beach?

As it stands Shepard is left with a hopeless choice between sacrificing his identity and sacrificing his life. It's a choice few men could make, and therefore it's a choice worthy of a hero and an epic story.

Hopeless choice is the exact opposite of fun for a lot of people. At this point this should be obvious.  THough it should have been so from the beginning

(cue inspiring music...) I say let's come to terms with our grief, delete MEHEM (please, please erase this travesty from history) and celebrate the way our Shepards lived, not mourn the way they died.

Hahahahahaha! 

No 

Shepard is my character as much as your character.  If you want your Shepard to die in a blaze of red, green, or blue glory, that's your choice.  But I choose my character, whom I have shaped with my choices over five years,  to live on, without having a galactic atrocity on his soul.  I choose to let my Shepard retire in peace without betraying his own allies.

And if you can't understand the appeal of that kind of ending, then there is nothing left to talk about.

As to this nonsense about intelligence and taste  Neither education nor intelligence = taste.  

[AndyAK79]

There is a difference between participation and ownership. You have the right to participate in the story, not dictate it's direction. The argument about it being equally your Shepard works both ways. You don't think I wanted a happy ending for my Shepard? Of course I did. But I'm glad Bioware didn't give me that, because it's not about what I want - it's about telling the story properly. It wouldn't have had an effect on me if I didn't care about the characters.

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

There is a difference between participation and ownership. You have the right to participate in the story, not dictate it's direction. The argument about it being equally your Shepard works both ways. You don't think I wanted a happy ending for my Shepard? Of course I did. But I'm glad Bioware didn't give me that, because it's not about what I want - it's about telling the story properly. It wouldn't have had an effect on me if I didn't care about the characters.

If you demnd money for a product, it has to be at least in part about what I want if you expect me to continue purchasing your products.

As it is, even the sacrifice aspect got botched horribly, only adding to the anger.

[Dubozz]

"it was about telling the story properly" Oh please. ME3 has one of the most ridiculous and badly written storyline. Bioware didn't even know how to finish the story 2 months before game gone gold.
Then two guys wrote the ending without peer review. Kinda shows.

[Deverz]

For me to accept dying, the game needed better death scenes! Shepard's deaths are pathetic and totally undignified. I refuse to let my Shepard die like a bosh'tet.

I already have a happy ending though. It's called High EMS Destroy. This ending is achieved with some serious headcanon. With no killer robots left, my Shepard goes home, gets laid and retires on a private island.

See? I feel better already. Just make up your own ending and all is well.

Modifié par Deverz, 25 septembre 2013 - 05:30 .

[GimmeDaGun]

AcidwireX wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

Well, since I'm an invasive cardiologist in real life, I can't say that I'm a dock-worker just to please your doubts. 

The point is that is has no merit on the internet. Its the same reason why its irritating watching someone start a thread on other boards with the phrase 'As a girl...'

It doesn't really matter what you are offline. You can't prove it to anyone for sure and chances are no one would believe you anyway. The only thing that matters is the strength of your arguement, not the title in which you attach to yourself in hopes that it will give yourself more validity.

(This isn't directed at you, just so you know.)

It wasn't an argument and I did not try to prove anything. I only wrote it to make a joke of a ludicrous and spiteful statement which in itself made a joke of itself. In other words I found the humour in it and answered in the same manner. Why would I want to really use my education, my degree, my level of intelligence and profession to validate my subjective opinion about something so bagatelle as the ending of a sci-fi game which I only play(ed) and like to entertain myself?

Also it's not the strength of your argument that matters. It's the internet. Very few care about the points you bring up and about your opinion in general (and those who do usually have the same or similar opinions). It's what you think that matters. You do not give a damn about what others say in the end. I like the ending. I have my reasons. Most probably many hate the endings for the very same reasons why I like them. But I don't give a damn. I don't want them to like it. I'm happy with it, and to me that's what matters when it comes to this issue. You can bring up all the points of the world and try to validate it all you want. It won't change a damn thing. I could do the same, but it would not make a difference either. 

I only have some fun about it here. This whole ending thing is pointless and ridiculous anyway, and could not be more "last year". At least I find it very funny and boring at the same time. It is pointless. So I have some fun about it, just for the hell of it. 

Although I still have to admit, that I can't get my head around the fact that people take such a tiny little thing as a game and a gaming company so seriously. I mean, I love the game (ok, I'm not so emotionally attached to it) and it is important to me as a game (evidently, since I visit these forums), but I just don't get what's all the fuss is about. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 25 septembre 2013 - 05:40 .

[adayaday]

AndyAK79 wrote...

People do know that, technically speaking, modding in the manner of MEHEM actually breaches your copyright agreement, right?

And your point is?

[GimmeDaGun]

Dubozz wrote...

"it was about telling the story properly" Oh please. ME3 has one of the most ridiculous and badly written storyline. Bioware didn't even know how to finish the story 2 months before game gone gold.
Then two guys wrote the ending without peer review. Kinda shows.

The same can be said about the whole trilogy (especially ME2). It's trash, full of cheese and cliches. But it's entertaining and smartly produced trash. The story of the trilogy is simple as a brick, but still it works and keeps you interested and invested enough to go on. It introduces the cheesiest and most "obvious" and cliched characters, who are all Hollywood blockbuster "must haves", yet they are still likeable. The main protagonist could not be less interesting, yet you enjoy playing him or her. 

ME is not a masterpiece of a story (beside it being one of the most simplistic story it's full of writing errors, logical misteps and contradictions), but somehow it managed to create a virtual universe which we all care about. In one sentence: it's one damn good game trilogy. 

[GimmeDaGun]

Kais Endac wrote...

AcidwireX wrote...

Oh yeah? Well I'm the President of the United States and I hate the endings.

Seriously, do you people claiming to be Doctors/Teachers/ect really think anyone believes you?

Video Games are not limited to one specific audience, I (amazingly enough) have a degree in History I'm (most) likely less intelligent that lots of people on bsn that don't have a degree. Why doubt those that state they are a Doctor/Teacher etc. They have nothing to gain from it and they are here because like others on BSN they like/dislike parts of Bioware games and want to share with other fans.

Hey, hey, this human understands. 

[Dubozz]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

"it was about telling the story properly" Oh please. ME3 has one of the most ridiculous and badly written storyline. Bioware didn't even know how to finish the story 2 months before game gone gold.
Then two guys wrote the ending without peer review. Kinda shows.

The same can be said about the whole trilogy (especially ME2). It's trash, full of cheese and cliches. But it's entertaining and smartly produced trash. The story of the trilogy is simple as a brick, but still it works and keeps you interested and invested enough to go on. It introduces the cheesiest and most "obvious" and cliched characters, who are all Hollywood blockbuster "must haves", yet they are still likeable. The main protagonist could not be less interesting, yet you enjoy playing him or her. 

ME is not a masterpiece of a story (beside it being one of the most simplistic story it's full of writing errors, logical misteps and contradictions), but somehow it managed to create a virtual universe which we all care about. In one sentence: it's one damn good game trilogy. 

Trilogy? More like 2 good games. And ME3 with ****ed up ending. 

[GimmeDaGun]

Dubozz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

"it was about telling the story properly" Oh please. ME3 has one of the most ridiculous and badly written storyline. Bioware didn't even know how to finish the story 2 months before game gone gold.
Then two guys wrote the ending without peer review. Kinda shows.

The same can be said about the whole trilogy (especially ME2). It's trash, full of cheese and cliches. But it's entertaining and smartly produced trash. The story of the trilogy is simple as a brick, but still it works and keeps you interested and invested enough to go on. It introduces the cheesiest and most "obvious" and cliched characters, who are all Hollywood blockbuster "must haves", yet they are still likeable. The main protagonist could not be less interesting, yet you enjoy playing him or her. 

ME is not a masterpiece of a story (beside it being one of the most simplistic story it's full of writing errors, logical misteps and contradictions), but somehow it managed to create a virtual universe which we all care about. In one sentence: it's one damn good game trilogy. 

Trilogy? More like 2 good games. And ME3 with ****ed up ending. 

Oh, come on. Don't be so negative. ME3 is just as good as the rest, it only has a controversial ending (which I happen to like, so it's a good game to me). To me ME2 is the most stupid and pointless "volume" of the trilogy. Plus I just can't stand some of the "new" cast in it. But I still enjoy it as a game. 

[Reorte]

AndyAK79 wrote...

2. It would not properly end Shepard's story.

Contrary to many arguments, Shepard does not necessarilly die at the end of the story; in two possible endings he either lives on as a reaper consciousness or is shown to be (barely) alive in the final scene. But the downbeat endings bring Shepard's story to a powerful close. No ending in which Shepard gets up and dusts himself off is going to have anything near the same emotional impact, nor is the story going to feel properly 'over'.

What we got even in the "have to consider the writer's intentions for it to mean anything" result does not bring Shepard's story to a powerful close. It brings it to an incomplete, annoying, and incredibly unsatisfying one. All the emotional response it gives me is negative. It's great if I feel bad about something that happens in a game as a result of my actions, so I'm angry at me. It's not good if that feeling ends up being directed towards the writers.

The point about "not feeling properly 'over'" doesn't make any sense at all. Why does it need the death or the sidelining of the protagonist to finish his story?

I don't accept that the Control ending really counts as Shepard either, it's a reprogrammed Catalyst modelled a bit on him. There's no good reason at all why it would be Shepard.

[Vapaa]

AndyAK79 wrote...

1. It wouldn't fit with the tone of the game

I call BS, the silly moments are often the most memorables ones in the saga,

AndyAK79 wrote...

2. It would not properly end Shepard's story.

Oh yes it would, how controling the Reapers via space magic end properly Shepard's story ?

AndyAK79 wrote...

3. It would eliminate the element of choice.

Nope, the element of choice has nothing to do with the happy factor, and the ending as it is steps with high heels on the choices we made

AndyAK79 wrote...

4. The ending would lack drama.

drama =/= instant win

What you need is MEANINGFUL drama, something the ending lacks entirely

[Ledgend1221]

Good idea OP.
The last thing we would have wanted is an ending that killed ME3...

[Rosstoration]

It's not so much "a happy ending" I wanted; I wasn't expecting Ewok parties, I was getting the vibe that Shepard would probably have to die at some point, because self-sacrifice is the preferred flavour of fiction lately.
It's more that I wanted to ending to make sense, or be more than just "the Reapers are the result of a error by some programme - please force close" - took the sting out of the whole Lovecraftian monstrosities they were going for, makes the Reapers just look like a bunch of morons on subsequent playthroughs. An ending that wasn't completely underwhelming would have done nicely.

[Killdren88]

With that sort of thinking then LOTR should not have had a happy ending. Considering how dire things got near the end of ROTK it should have ended on a much sadder note. That small Diversion army should have been wiped out, Frodo destroys the ring but either at the cost of his, Sam's or both their lives and the End would have wrapped with anyone who survived that terrible war recovering.

Sure Jackson left out the razing of the Shire, and changed it to the lush green Shire we know of. And you know what? It got a very good response from the majority of viewers. Sure I knew of some people, including myself who criticized the change at the end but understood that people wouldn't want more sadness and dark settings at the end.

Modifié par Killdren88, 25 septembre 2013 - 06:50 .

[Twilight_Princess]

It’a not that I wanted a “happy ending” I just wanted a better send off for shepard.  In reality the ending was never going to be happy, millions of lives were already killed in war, important characters would still be dead and it was the final chapter to shepard’s story (a sad thing by default). The ending, even with the EC, IMO is not a meaningful goodbye to a much loved character; I just don’t get that impression. Shepard feels like something the creators got tired of and disposed of. Beaten down first then made to hopelessly pick something he/she don’t really want to pick and then disintegrating, dying or lying in a ditch somewhere alone.  

I mean citadel managed to do convey an emotional goodbye with one friggin line “the best”. That emotion, that feeling was not there in shepard’s final moment.  There was no togetherness , no one last hoorah or badass moment just a lonely,  quiet “*sigh* ok I’ll choose”. It’s not happy , it’s not even sad it was just so disappointing to watch.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 25 septembre 2013 - 06:36 .